I'm a Christian but I can't get behind the notion that God is mericful
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The punishment for sin is death. Punishment has no benefit. Discipline is intended to correct attitudes and behaviour. They may seem the same but they are worlds apart. We are exhorted to accept God's discipline as something beneficial, not as a pointless punishment. Ananias and Sapphira attempted to deceive the early Christians. It says that Satan filled Ananias' heart, the same thing that happened with Judas. They lied to the Holy Spirit. If they had got away with it, the earliest days of the Church would have been marred by their deception. Note the result of their treatment. Christians began to have a healthy respect for God. The Church flourished.
You need to have your eyes opened to see the real God. He is not a monster. He is love. His ways are not our ways. All His ways are right and just. Ask Him yourself. God is approachable. Tell Him that you do not understand. Be humble, not aggressive. Oh, and Jesus is not "a way" to get into heaven. He is the only way. And getting into heaven is not the point of the gospel. We are meant to be seeking the Kingdom of God. Ananias was operating under Satan's control while pretending to be a Christian. God is not okay with that.
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In the OT, it was truly, "one strike ... you're out". The OT is a lesson for us. Clearly, part of the lesson is that God has the authority and justification to end any life ... which does not conform 100% to His will.
Romans 15:4: “For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”
However, God's plan for humanity doesn't end there. In the New Testament (i.e. phase 2 of God's plan), the emphasis is upon God's gracious gift of salvation (i.e. forgiveness) to us. Jesus comes ... and feeds us ... and heals us ... and resurrects us ... and encourages us, ... and finally, gives up His own life ... to save our (spiritual) lives.
John 10
9 I am the door: if any man enter in by Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find blessing.
10 ... I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
Now, ... rather than having to fulfill God's perfect requirements of us, we simply have to make acquaintance with Him, and assent to be brought under His parental authority. From that point on, God is faithful to lead and guide us in the way that is best for us.
1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
The (2) New Testament deaths you refer to (Ananais and Sapphira) occurred to emphasize to the infant church, ... that God is a zealous parent, who will extend punishment (i.e. chastisement) for sin ... even while He gradually develops Godly character within us.
Acts 5
1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge, he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said to Ananais, "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it.
P.S. It is my belief that Ananais and Sapphira are safe within the arms of God today, though their lives were used as an example for the early church.
I often think of God as a planter of seed. Some seed germinates well, grows vigorously, and yields the desired fruit, ... but some doesn't. Death is, effectively, God's way of separating out the fruitful (i.e. "in faith") from the unfruitful (i.e. "not in faith"). As the creator of humanity, God has the authority to do such thinning of the crop of His creation (i.e. humanity) ... and any mercy He grants in this process ... is truly an example of His grace (i.e. undeserved favor).
Luke 13
6 Then he (Jesus) told them a story: "A man had an apple tree planted in his front yard. He came to it expecting to find apples, but there weren't any.
7 He said to his gardener, 'What's going on here? For three years now I've come to this tree expecting apples and not one apple have I found. Chop it down! Why waste good ground with it any longer?'
8 "The gardener said, 'Let's give it another year. I'll dig around it and fertilize,
9 and maybe it will produce next year; if it doesn't, then chop it down.'"
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- Sep 6, 2016
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It's like when we go to court.
Why does the judge have mercy on some?
When he needs not have mercy on any?
Because He sits in that position.
Why does He call some and not others?
Who are we to ask that question?
But mere little men.
M-Bob
Why does the judge have mercy on some?
When he needs not have mercy on any?
Because He sits in that position.
Why does He call some and not others?
Who are we to ask that question?
But mere little men.
M-Bob
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Redwingfan9
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Part of the problem is perhaps how you define mercy. Another part is perhaps how you view mankind. At the end of the day because we sin we aren't entitled to God's mercy. He is completely justified sending every last one of us to Hell for all eternity. That he saves anyone is a testament to his mercy. I would submit not recognizing that fact is why you don't view God as merciful.
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You have to understand what God has been doing. Mercy was shown to Adam and Eve when they fell. He taught them that redemption would be found in the future when he promised a Messiah that would pay the penalty of their sin with his own death. The promise was made in Genesis 3:15 and the picture of this sacrifice is seen in Gen 3:21 when one of the animals (perhaps a lamb) was killed so they could be clothed.
The destruction of the world by the Flood demonstrated that all humanity was corrupt and needed replacement. Noah and his family still understood the promise of the Messiah which is why after the Flood he offered the animal sacrifices (Gen 8:20), which is why there were 7 of the clean animals not just 6.
The patriarchs of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob understood this promise and knew they needed the Messiah to bring in a new humanity. On Jacob's meeting of Pharaoh he says this:
Gen 47:9 ... The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.
Jacob knew he was an evil man and his life on Earth was a pilgrimage towards the new humanity. He trusted in the promise of the Messiah to come, but as the writer of Hebrews said:
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
The promise being the advent of Christ that would come and create a new humanity.
Meanwhile, the knowledge of Christ was corrupted into the various pagan gods of the polytheistic world to justify the perversions and evil of most of humanity. Even with these people God gave them mercy as Paul said in Romans:
Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, ...
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, ...
The Mosaic covenant was given to the children of Israel, not as a means of redemption which would give the mercy of God, but as an instructional tool. Sadly, many of the Israelis rejected the promise and embraced the corruption of the rest of mankind.
The analogy of surgery has been made by others. Infection or cancer has to be cut out and killed to save the tissue that is good. The genocide of the Old Testament has been compared to surgery in this regard. God warned the Israelis that allowing the corruption of the pagans to co-exist with them would pollute them, too.
As I said, the Mosaic covenant was never meant to be a means of redemption in itself. No works could change the biology of man, only the death and resurrection of Christ could accomplish that. The Mosaic covenant was to teach Israel how Christ would save them, but, sadly, Christ became a stumbling block, and the rock of offence to them.
Isa_8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
All who understood the promise of the Messiah during the OT period, were saved and are referenced in Hebrews 11.
God's mercy had always been available to all mankind, but accessing that mercy had requirements: humility of heart, deliberate intention of doing what was right, and faith in the mercy to be given the world to come.
Mic_6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
With the death and resurrection of Christ, God is now reconciled to the whole world. Does that mean his mercy will let sin and corruption to reign unchecked? No, of course, not. But grace and mercy are given for repentance and faith in Christ.
Before his Son's advent the Mosaic covenant with Israel was to teach mankind the way back to the promise of the Messiah, but Israel stumbled on their being the "chosen people" and saw their relationship with Yahweh (Y'shua) as exclusive to themselves and not as an evangelical call. Israel should have been bringing the gentiles into relationship with Yahweh. Some came and were called righteous gentiles, but not by evangelism on their part. Only because they had the same humility as stated in Micah 6:8 and were drawn by the Spirit to them.
Today, the Church of Jesus Christ (ie, the people of God, not organizations) are the tools of God for extending that grace and mercy to mankind and is expressed in the Great Commission. Sadly, too many Christians take on the Israeli mindset of seeing themselves as the new "chosen people" and become the frozen chosen in their pews not sharing the Gospel with anyone.
The mercy of God has been given to all the world through all the ages, but God has always delegated that mercy to people to share with the world. Many are called but few choose to share.
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Charles Kanyuga
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This is my reasoning on the subject of God being merciful.
There are many scriptures in written in the OT that supports God's mercy like for instance Lamentation 3:22-23, it is of the LORD's mercy we are not consumed, because his compassion fail not. They are new every morning; great is thy faithfulness. Another scripture says, The LORD is slow to anger but great in power; the LORD will never leave the guilty unpunished Nahum 1:3. So, then taking on your trajectory, look at Saul the king he did not do as the Lord commanded him, but God still maintained him as king until David. God did not kill him, he on the other hand remained hardhearted and did not turn to the gracious love of God... instead he pursued to kill him whom God appointed king over his people. He remained guilty until death.
On destroying the Amorites who represented the rest of the Canaanites, God had said, '..., for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Genesis 15:16. God did not destroy them even if they were wicked but until a nation set after his heart was redeemed from Egypt that God allowed their wickedness to be punished. He says that the wages of sin is death.
God never punished anyone whose heart was set towards him in repentance, say David, when he sinned by killing Uriah and sleeping with his wife, God showed him mercy and forgiveness when he confessed his sin repentantly, Read Psalm 51. The mercy of God is towards those who are righteous but to the wicked God shows his judgement.
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The Law is Holy, Good and Just.
That is why the Law condemns us all.
What we pray for is the Law becomes our tutor which directly points us to Jesus Christ where we find Grace and Peace.
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Emmylouwho
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Emmylouwho
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Cute analogy, I suppose, but off the mark. Ask any abused child if their mother’s mercy endures forever after the blissful womb stage.
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fwGod
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Did you happen to read how evil he was?
What of King Saul? Many times he intended to kill David if not for God protecting him.TommySoda said:
What of the evil kings who did many evil things before they finally died?
Those two had pledged to give a certain amount, but when it came down to it, they lied and gave less. It's not that they were being forced to give more, but it was on their decision that they renegged on. They kept it back and sought to hide it by agreeing not to admit their changed plans.TommySoda said:
They could have just repented. But they chose to lie.
You've mentioned 2 cases where death happened. Compared to all of the times where mercy was shown.TommySoda said:
I think that you should not get your information from infidel resources where they purposely don't say anything good about God.
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Emmylouwho
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God has killed lots of people in the Bible. Do you think that TommySoda has listed the ONLY TWO TIMES that God has shown inconstancy in the Bible? There are numerous examples.
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fwGod
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Well I only meant to imply that if he's going to make a point of how many. Then he should mention many examples. For instance I mentioned the many evil kings of Israel. With everyone of them is an example of God's mercy in that they continued to live in spite of their evil.
So the idea that it's "one sin and your dead".. is false.
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Emmylouwho
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Hmm. Did you ever think that it might be a good idea to judge your judge, before blindly accepting your judge’s judgment?
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The Bible says other things about the Law.
Galatians 3
24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 3
20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Galatians 2
16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Romans 6
14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 3
28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
John 1
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
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We are born into sin.....so trying to avoid the the "one" is too late.
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Psalm 58
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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fwGod
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The tendency unchecked is there, yes. However, God is merciful and gracious for love covers the multitude of sin.
In our vernacular that makes it sound like she slept with someone and got pregnant when actually it speaks of the condition of man's inclination to sin. But that is not the end of the story.SkyWriting said:
Prov.16:6 "By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil."
Rom.5:6-10SkyWriting said:
6 "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."
Isaiah 55:7 "Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon."SkyWriting said:
Rom.5:20 "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."SkyWriting said:
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