Faith? No Logical Proof.

KnowThyself said:

To be a true Christian, is to strive to be more like God. Which is perfection. Now that is not possible amongst a human. However, it does sadden me, that most of you on here seem to want to judge me, and try to force ably change me(control me), then to support me, and give me options, and to simply try and point me in the right direction.

I remember when I was leaving the faith, I would talk to many pastors. They were the most helpful, because even though they couldn't answer all of my questions back then, they were the most polite, and had the most manners about not forcing religious aspect upon me.

I think the problem with most Christians now a days is humbleness. To which they constantly preach about to non- Christians, or to people in the middle, possibly searching for answers. Weather it is a rebellious child in life, people searching for answers in the middle, or non Christians, thee best advice I can give the Christians that have typed within this thread that have judged me is this...………….Be more humble, more relaxed, more laid back, and never never try to force religion upon someone, simply offer it! But offer it, in a kind manner, without coming across as holier or better than thou.

Christians are suppose to spread the word of God, not Force it upon others. Most people don't like to be controlled, or told that they're going to be by anyone. Passive is a much better attitude, I've always found, from a religious aspect. So for all of you that have judged me, I do honestly forgive you, and I hope that you pray to God to forgive you as well.

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There's a lot of hypocrisy in this statement.

Everyone judges to a certain degree. We have to in order to find the truth. Every day, we judge our own thoughts, ideas and behaviors, as well as those of another person to see if they are good and truthful.

The people in this forum have been giving you advice. YOU were the first one to be condescending to them. Did you not expect people to be offended?

You can't excuse your unbelief by pointing out other people are hypocrites, especially if you yourself are a hypocrite, which you are alongside the rest of the human race. It's one of the things we need saving from by Christ. The hypocrisy of other Christians does not means Christianity is untrue.

All that I've seen from other people here is them trying to challenge you in a helpful way. Then you started talking down to them. As your own username states, know thyself.

By the way, Christianity is about becoming like God, but you cannot do that on your own. God is the one who changes you through the power of the Holy Spirit. Your good works will never please Him while you are still dead in your sins, away from the redeeming sacrifice of Christ.

KnowThyself said:

Hi there. My name is Peter. I'm not really sure what to call myself from a religious belief aspect any more. At least not currently. You see, I grew up in a Christian family, going to church pretty much every Sunday, and then to youth group on Wednesdays. I'd go on youth missions sometimes. I then rebelled from religion around the age of 15, and got in with the bad crowd. I was Atheist for about 5 years and completely denied God. Then for about 12 years I was Agnostic, and didn't deny or accept God. I simply said that I didn't know? In that time however I enjoyed studying different spiritual beliefs, and religious aspects of life. I also write poetry and philosophies. So, about a month to two months ago, I was writing in a political forum, and the theory/subject/question of the Chicken vs. the Egg came up. Now this is a question that has been asked for many many years, basically, because it's asking to me anyways what or who is real/created everything and everyone in life? It's basically comparing God, vs Science or Evolution. So I was taking a shower thinking about this, and randomly I do believe that I came up with an answer to this age old question. That God is real, and I can prove it. However I still don't accept him as my God, for reasons I will never go into on here. How can I prove it? You see the Chicken/aka God had to come first. Mainly because the egg couldn't. If the egg came first, there would be no parent to teach the child/egg where to find food, water, and shelter. Or how to stay away from predators, and hide from them. The animal/race would cease to exist without the God/chicken coming first.

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Sounds like you have reached the answer to one of the four questions every single human being eventually has to come up with answers for. 1) who am I? 2) Where did I come from? 3) What is my purpose? 4) What is my destiny?

Since you have logically concluded that God exists, I would suggest taking a long hard look at some of the details of apologetics, specifically the immutability of God's natural laws. That would be a great place to go from where you are. Just my humble 2 cents.

Yes.. I would say maybe you have a head knowledge of God. A Christian singer NF in a song "Oh lord"

"It's easy to blame God but harder to fix things
We look in the sky like, "why ain't You listening?"
Watching the news in our living rooms on the big screens
And talking 'bout "if God's really real, then where is He?"
You see the same God that you saying might not even exist
Becomes real to us, but only when we dying in bed
When ya healthy it's like, we don't really care for Him then
Leave me alone God, I'll call you when I need you again
Which is funny, everyone will sleep in the pews
Then blame God for our problems like He sleeping on you
We turn our backs on Him, what do you expect Him to do?
It's hard to answer prayers when nobody's praying to you
I look around at this world we walk on
It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God
And if there isn't then what are we here for?
And what are y'all doing down there? I don't know Lord"

KnowThyself said:

I know God is real. I know I'm not God, and have had plenty of Humbleness throughout my lifetime. Just because I don't show it in some areas, at some times, doesn't mean that I don't have it, or won't show it at other times.

My name is Peter. Maybe it's in my DNA to have a little bit of pride in certain things, because I'm doomed to suffer anyways maybe? At least if you know Peter from the Bible, from a Biblical aspect? lol.

Then again, most people most of my life, haven't come close to understanding me, or even trying to do so. Simply judging me, and I am use to it, so I definitely have my shields up at times.

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brother ...that stubborn pride and sin itself is in everyone's DNA ...at least you recognize it ...defensiveness has it's root in pride so we are unimprovable except through the cross of Christ Jesus ...the reason that we must die to self . ( A dead man does not get easily offended .) The good news is that we are accepted by God in Christ Jesus for the only thing worthy of God is from and is God . That is why Paul said " In my flesh dwells no good thing . " That is the essence of the good news brother ..I have nothing worthy of God . Zero ( its in my dna too ! )

I LOVE Peter ! While he was a disciple of Jesus , he was at times brash and bold and Jesus said , when you are converted , strengthen your brethren . Do you know when I think Peter was converted ? I think it was after he denied our Lord three times and the Lord looked at Him with LOVE ...not condemnation ..but real eternal love . The scriptures says Peter went and wept ..I think he sobbed and it just broke his heart and he was given a new heart and a new understanding that anyone is capable of denying the Lord ...It also worked a great degree of humility . It allowed Peter to be corrected by Paul when the Judahizers came up from Jerusalem and Peter withdrew from the gentiles as described in the book of Acts . Peter could hear that Paul ( who never even met the Lord in the flesh ) was speaking truth .
Keep seeking the truth ( in humility ) . Ask and you will receive , knock and the door will be opened . Not because of who we are but because of who God is .

KnowThyself said:

Hi there. My name is Peter. I'm not really sure what to call myself from a religious belief aspect any more. At least not currently. You see, I grew up in a Christian family, going to church pretty much every Sunday, and then to youth group on Wednesdays. I'd go on youth missions sometimes. I then rebelled from religion around the age of 15, and got in with the bad crowd. I was Atheist for about 5 years and completely denied God. Then for about 12 years I was Agnostic, and didn't deny or accept God. I simply said that I didn't know? In that time however I enjoyed studying different spiritual beliefs, and religious aspects of life. I also write poetry and philosophies. So, about a month to two months ago, I was writing in a political forum, and the theory/subject/question of the Chicken vs. the Egg came up. Now this is a question that has been asked for many many years, basically, because it's asking to me anyways what or who is real/created everything and everyone in life? It's basically comparing God, vs Science or Evolution. So I was taking a shower thinking about this, and randomly I do believe that I came up with an answer to this age old question. That God is real, and I can prove it. However I still don't accept him as my God, for reasons I will never go into on here. How can I prove it? You see the Chicken/aka God had to come first. Mainly because the egg couldn't. If the egg came first, there would be no parent to teach the child/egg where to find food, water, and shelter. Or how to stay away from predators, and hide from them. The animal/race would cease to exist without the God/chicken coming first.

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Descartes used logic to philosophically prove God's existence. You may find his "Pensees" to be interesting if you're looking for philosophical proof of God. As most mathemeticians and philosophers know, Descartes was a brilliant mind and knew logic.

KnowThyself said:

To be a true Christian, is to strive to be more like God. Which is perfection.

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No, this isn't what being a true Christian is about. No human can ever be anywhere close to God in their nature and character. No human can strive enough to satisfy God. And so, He does for us what we cannot do for ourselves. The Christian life, then, is not striving, but resting, and surrender, and utter dependence upon God.

KnowThyself said:

I think the problem with most Christians now a days is humbleness. To which they constantly preach about to non- Christians, or to people in the middle, possibly searching for answers.

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Hmmm...You realize, I hope, that you don't know most Christians. There are many millions of them all around the globe. A very few on this thread may have dealt with you without all the grace and tenderness you would have liked, but they don't necessarily represent "most Christians."

KnowThyself said:

Be more humble, more relaxed, more laid back, and never never try to force religion upon someone, simply offer it! But offer it, in a kind manner, without coming across as holier or better than thou.

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Well, the Bible says we reap what we sow. If you want humble, relaxed, laid back responses, you'll have to offer such posts yourself.

KnowThyself said:

Hi there. My name is Peter. I'm not really sure what to call myself from a religious belief aspect any more. At least not currently. You see, I grew up in a Christian family, going to church pretty much every Sunday, and then to youth group on Wednesdays. I'd go on youth missions sometimes. I then rebelled from religion around the age of 15, and got in with the bad crowd. I was Atheist for about 5 years and completely denied God. Then for about 12 years I was Agnostic, and didn't deny or accept God. I simply said that I didn't know? In that time however I enjoyed studying different spiritual beliefs, and religious aspects of life. I also write poetry and philosophies. So, about a month to two months ago, I was writing in a political forum, and the theory/subject/question of the Chicken vs. the Egg came up. Now this is a question that has been asked for many many years, basically, because it's asking to me anyways what or who is real/created everything and everyone in life? It's basically comparing God, vs Science or Evolution. So I was taking a shower thinking about this, and randomly I do believe that I came up with an answer to this age old question. That God is real, and I can prove it. However I still don't accept him as my God, for reasons I will never go into on here. How can I prove it? You see the Chicken/aka God had to come first. Mainly because the egg couldn't. If the egg came first, there would be no parent to teach the child/egg where to find food, water, and shelter. Or how to stay away from predators, and hide from them. The animal/race would cease to exist without the God/chicken coming first.

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Hello Peter,

I don't know if the chicken and egg rationale proves anything. But There is logical proof of God's existence. The facts I speak of do not present certain proofs of God's existence as illogical. It's that people claim the factual proof is not logical, only because they don't believe it. Therefore, they make up explanations to explain what they know nothing about. And how logical is that action? To make up reasons to explain what one knows nothing about? Now that's illogical.

There are people who were contacted by God in the past. There are people who are contacted by God in our day. I am not telling you about something I just read in a book. I have experienced it personally. Some of us wrote down our experiences, and some of those experiences are in the most widely published book of all times. And yet people don't believe, because they've had no such experience themselves, and God's contacts cannot be duplicated by scientists. God contacts who he wants, when he wants, not when some scientist conducts a scientific experiment. I imagine you only contact who you want to, when you want to also.

People believe in other things they cannot actually prove except through that same means of accepting someone else's word for experiences they had, like the existence of a two thousand year old ruler, which they also only know about second or third hand through the experiences of others. They believe accepting that information is logical, because they received it from people who shared experiences similar to their own. But they don't believe us because they have not shared experiences similar ours. Still our testimonies supply a logical reason to believe in God. Because either we are lying about them, we are crazy, or we are telling the truth about supernatural, miraculous contacts from God. There are other logical reason to believe in God contained in our testimonies. Does it seem to you that we are lying? Some 40 of us wrote the book you read as the Bible. There are thousands of us that have told our stories. That is logical evidence that would be recognized in any court as evidence. And the only reason some consider it as illogical is because it is so far removed from what they know. So the point I make is, is it logical to say there is no logical evidence only because in ones limited existence he/she has not experienced what thousands of other humans have?