Still confused about the trinity

Bcs90 said:

When I go to pray sometimes I pray to God and then I feel I should be praying to Jesus since I want more faith in Jesus so I suddenly change my way of thinking and go "Dear Jesus" instead of "Dear God" but then I feel guilty to disclude God but then I remember Jesus is God? It's just confusing to me because when Jesus walked the earth he said "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" so he was speaking to God? But wouldn't that mean he was speaking to himself?
And did Jesus know he was God since he was a baby? Or did he learn it at a certain point? And did he have all the same knowledge that God had? Like when Jesus was in human form do you think he knew exactly how and when the universe came into existence?

Thanks for any help.

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I wouldn't get too tongue tied in that as we see both in Scripture. Technically though, Jesus is the God/man (fully God/full man) but as man He is the 'go between' between God and man.

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Bcs90 said:

why do people call the father and holy spirit persons if they are not humans?

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Any rational self determined creature is a person. This includes man and angels. Like God we are persons.

Bcs90 said:

When I go to pray sometimes I pray to God and then I feel I should be praying to Jesus since I want more faith in Jesus so I suddenly change my way of thinking and go "Dear Jesus" instead of "Dear God" but then I feel guilty to disclude God but then I remember Jesus is God? It's just confusing to me because when Jesus walked the earth he said "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" so he was speaking to God? But wouldn't that mean he was speaking to himself?
And did Jesus know he was God since he was a baby? Or did he learn it at a certain point? And did he have all the same knowledge that God had? Like when Jesus was in human form do you think he knew exactly how and when the universe came into existence?

Thanks for any help.

Click to expand...

Good questions. God is a title, not a name. So all members of the Godhead share the title of God, but they are three distinct entities that are one in mind and purpose but different in function. God gave us something we could use for an analogy and that is marriage. When God say the 2 would become one flesh it is obviously not literal but it means one in goals, purpose and mind.

When Jesus came down to earth he had to sacrifice the privileges of being God. It means he had to grow in knowledge and Mary and Joseph had to teach him the principles of God at a young age. At 12 years old, many believe that this is when Jesus realized what his mission was. When Mary came back to get him, he told her that he had to be about his Father's business which was the first time he ever said something like that. If Jesus had the advantage of knowing everything, being all powerful and being able to exercise all power as God, how would it make sense for him to overcome as a human and then ask us to follow in his footsteps. It was through depending on the strength of the father that he did it. In terms of if he knew things like how the universe came into existence. The only way he would have known is if the father specifically let him know.

Bcs90 said:

Thanks for the replies. another thing I wonder especially when I'm praying is if it matters which to pray to? or maybe to be sure I should start my prayers by "Dear Father, Jesus and Holy spirit"? They are all one but Jesus said no one can come to the father without going through him? But Jesus also said to pray to the father. Confusing lol. and why do people call the father and holy spirit persons if they are not humans? maybe Jesus I could see being called a person.

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Well in terms of prayer, it doesn't matter if it is Jesus, The Holy Spirit of the Father that you pray to. Its going to be all one and the same. But even in prayer there is a role for each.

The bible says that we do not know how to pray as we ought but the holy spirit basically brings our pray and sentiments to Jesus, so we might not have the right words but the holy spirit knows what we want to say and how we should say it i would imagine, completes and perfects our prayer and beings it to Jesus. Jesus takes our pray and pleads on our behalf to the father because Jesus is our Advocate. The Father answers the prayer. It may be wrong about that though so don't take it as gospel.

If you're asking whether God is a human then of course not. Jesus is not a human. Jesus existed for all eternity and took on human flesh on his mission on earth to redeem man. That existence as a human on earth is not who Jesus really is. Its possible that he kept the same form he was in after his Resurrection which might be closer to being human. As the bible said, the first Adam was made a living soul but the Last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit.

To give an example from human experience:

Any time you say a word, that word is preceded by a thought. Once you speak to me about your thought and I hear your words, I now know what your thought was, even though I had no direct contact with your thought. The word you spoke, while distinct from your thought, fully revealed what your thought was, and by knowing your word I know your thought. They are distinct, yet they are one. Additionally, that word came to me on the power of a breath. As far as saying a word to reveal a thought goes, you don't breath without speaking, and you don't speak without breathing. And if I were to analyze the vibrations in your breath, I would get the same information that the word conveyed, which is the same information in the thought.

Another example:

One candle lights two candles, while the wicks remain together. How many flames are there? The answer is that it is simultaneously true that there are three flames and that there is only one flame. Each flame is the same "stuff" and together they make one flame, yet we know that there are three individual flames.

Those are only human/worldly examples and absolutely have their limitations, and I am by no means attempting to make any one-to-one comparisons. My only real hope there is to demonstrate that modalism is not what the Trinity is, and to help demonstrate that each Person is distinct from the other Two, yet one and the same God and "Godness".

QUOTE="Bcs90, post: 74133366, member: 420872"]When I go to pray sometimes I pray to God and then I feel I should be praying to Jesus since I want more faith in Jesus so I suddenly change my way of thinking and go "Dear Jesus" instead of "Dear God" but then I feel guilty to disclude God but then I remember Jesus is God? It's just confusing to me because when Jesus walked the earth he said "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" so he was speaking to God? But wouldn't that mean he was speaking to himself?[/QUOTE
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No, Yahushua Hamashiach was not speaking to Himself when He spoke with the Father in heaven.
It was not confusing to the Apostles, for they knew both the Father and the Son.
Tradition later introduced a lot of confusion.
Simplify for a while might be a wonderful idea - read what Yahushua Hamashiach says , Himself, throughout Scripture,
praying constantly for the Father's Wisdom, to understand the Father's Meaning, as it IS HIS GOOD PLEASURE to reveal the TRUTH to little children, (and to HIDE IT FROM the educated ones).

Bcs90 said:

When I go to pray sometimes I pray to God and then I feel I should be praying to Jesus since I want more faith in Jesus so I suddenly change my way of thinking and go "Dear Jesus" instead of "Dear God" but then I feel guilty to disclude God but then I remember Jesus is God? It's just confusing to me because when Jesus walked the earth he said "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" so he was speaking to God? But wouldn't that mean he was speaking to himself?
And did Jesus know he was God since he was a baby? Or did he learn it at a certain point? And did he have all the same knowledge that God had? Like when Jesus was in human form do you think he knew exactly how and when the universe came into existence?

Thanks for any help.

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Question: "To whom are we to pray, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit?"

Answer~~~> www.gotquestions.org/pray-Father-Son-Spirit.html

Question: "If Jesus was God, how could He pray to God? Was Jesus praying to Himself?"

Answer~~~> www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pray-God.html

Question: "When did Jesus know that He was God?"

Answer~~~> www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-know.html

PROPHECYKID said:

Good questions. God is a title, not a name. So all members of the Godhead share the title of God, but they are three distinct entities that are one in mind and purpose but different in function. God gave us something we could use for an analogy and that is marriage. When God say the 2 would become one flesh it is obviously not literal but it means one in goals, purpose and mind.

When Jesus came down to earth he had to sacrifice the privileges of being God. It means he had to grow in knowledge and Mary and Joseph had to teach him the principles of God at a young age. At 12 years old, many believe that this is when Jesus realized what his mission was. When Mary came back to get him, he told her that he had to be about his Father's business which was the first time he ever said something like that. If Jesus had the advantage of knowing everything, being all powerful and being able to exercise all power as God, how would it make sense for him to overcome as a human and then ask us to follow in his footsteps. It was through depending on the strength of the father that he did it. In terms of if he knew things like how the universe came into existence. The only way he would have known is if the father specifically let him know.

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One of the difficulties with the Trinity is that for every explanation that anyone gives, you can make a good case it's heretical. It's true that the outside the context of the Trinity, the ordinary translation of hypostasis would be entity. But I have a problem with the idea of three separate entities that share the same title. That would apply even to polytheism, as all the gods share the title god. The official definition is three hypostases with one ousia. Ousia is translated "nature" or "substance." It's a bit more than a title. It indicates a unity of substance.

nvm