Is the idea of self affliction of our bodies to keep from sinning biblical?

Bible Highlighter said:

You said:
But what if telling others that their future sin is forgiven them can make them to think God's grace is a license to sin? It is very easy to to mislead a person by saying this and then saying nothing more. Take for example George Sodini. He was a man who believed that we are saved by God's grace and not of works and that future sin was forgiven him. Unfortunately he murdered a bunch of people, and he took his own life and he wrote in his suicide letter that he was saved by Jesus by having a belief alone in him. Even his deacon friend at his church said he was saved in a newspaper article. What if you told George Sodini that his future sin is forgiven him and that your saying that him really convinced him of what he was about to do? Would you not want to change your belief after hearing that? See, God's truth should never lead us down the wrong path.

It's a mistake to judge God's truth by what man does. Man can say anything. Anyone can make a profession of faith. I'm sure we have all seen them over the years. I am not a fan of the way much of the modern church presents faith in Christ as just making a decision, raising a hand, signing a card, walking an aisle, saying a sinner's prayer. I believe it has caused many to have a false hope in a moment of time where they did this, but no real change happened in their lives. I also do not believe that a true conversion will result in no change in a life. There will be change, because God has truly entered that person's life.

There have been times in my life that I was not serious enough about sin in my life because I believed I was totally forgiven. But The Holy Spirit in me told me that was wrong and totally against who I truly was in Christ. I was not happy at all doing that, and I know what Christ said about it. "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we, who died to sin live any longer in it?" Rom 6 1-3. Then Paul goes on to explain we have died, been buried and been raised to newness of life. "For if we have been united together with Christ in his death, certainly we also shall be in his resurrection (right now, since we are joined to his life now!)

You said:
I disagree. Jesus also taught grace in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son, etc. There was never a time that it was okay to be under the Law. Salvation has always been by God's grace through faith in the Messiah, and works of faith that follow. Jesus was not indulging the Pharisees. Jesus was actually teaching New Covenant by giving us new teachings (that in some places conflicted with Old Covenant teachings). For example: OT said an eye for an eye, but Jesus said that we are to now turn the other cheek. Jesus was not giving us a false scare tactic in Matthew 5:28-30. He really meant that if a person looks upon a woman in lust, their whole body can be cast into hell fire. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense for Jesus to give us these new teachings just so that they can be undone so quickly at Christ’s death (When the New Covenant officially began).

I didn't say Jesus only taught the law. He taught grace as well, lived it, gave it to people he came into contact with etc. But the fullness of grace was displayed and poured out at his death, burial and resurrection. When he told people to go and sin no more, part of that admonition was to keep trusting in God and Himself. Unbelief is at the root of all sin. Unbelief that we need God, that we need to submit to Him.

You said:
Anyways, if you believe Jesus was trying to show how they could not keep God’s laws by his righteous teachings, then what chapter and verse does Jesus explain this?
No. Jesus said, "sin no more" to two people. (John 5:14) (John 8:11). Why would Jesus tell them to do something that was impossible? It would make his instruction out to be like a deception. Jesus told the one guy, "sin no more, unless a worse thing come upon you." So Jesus really meant business here. He was not kidding around.

What is the root of all sin? Unbelief, not trusting in God as our sufficiency, thinking we can live our lives without Him. Jesus is telling them to keep trusting in God as they trusted in Him in that moment. To continue on in their faith, I believe. We do show our faith by our works, but our works do not save us. I don't believe they ever have. It's always been by faith. There are others who believe differently. The church I go to now believe that the Jews had to do the law as well as have faith to be saved. But now, since Christ's sacrifice, the law has been abolished and salvation is by grace through faith apart from works. Eph 2:8-10. So they would say the Jews who Jesus was speaking to were required to do the law as well as have true faith.

You said:
Then how does grace abound more than sin? Because sin leads to death or destruction or annihilation in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). Grace through a true faith leads to eternal life. Grace abounds for all eternity. That is why grace abounds so much more. God’s grace enables men to live forever and that grace made eternal life to flourish for all time.
“That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 5:21).
Grace does not abound in the sense that a believer does not need to worry about sin because their future sin is forgiven them. That is not what it is saying.

I agree. God also tells us through the new testament writings of Peter and Paul mainly, that we died, were buried and have been raised with Christ, joined to Christ and seated in the heavenlies. I believe this is an actual spiritual truth. And just as Christ will never, could never be lost, because he is the only begotten Son of God, God Himself, neither shall we because we are joined to Him. He changes us at the core, at the spiritual level and its an actual creation, making us His children.

We are not made secure by our steadfastness to keep from sinning. We are made secure by God's steadfastness to His promises.

You say:
Believing in Christ's death and resurrection and seeking forgiveness with Jesus is where salvation starts. But working out salvation with fear and trembling is also biblical. This is not a trusting in one's own works, but a trusting in God to do the good work through them. All glory goes to the Lord for any good work the Lord does through a believer's life. There is no boasting in one's own works like in Ephesians 2:9.

Salvation is an ongoing process. We do work out what God has already worked in us. For its God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Its by fear and trembling because the God of all the universe is working inside of us! Unbelievable really and wonderful!


You say:
Again, that is not how Christ's sacrifice is applied to a believer's life. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Hebrews 5:9 says Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

We do walk in the light, because He is in us and we are in Him. I have a whole complete different understanding of 1John than you do. I have studied it in depth and do not agree with your interpretation. I believe He is talking about believers...those who walk in the light...and unbelievers...those who walk in darkness and are liars and the truth is not in them. Believers are children of light. 1Thess 5:4-5 says we do not walk in darkness but are children of light. 1John 5 1-4 explains that those who believe Jesus is the Christ are born of God and they are overcome the world by their faith. To really go through 1John would take a whole lot of time. But it is a contrast between believers and unbelievers.

Many people seem to believe that faith and obedience are separate. Obedience flows from faith. Jesus said the work of God is to believe on Him. True faith will produce obedience. Its the obedience of faith from a new heart that God creates.

"But God be thanked, that though you WERE slaves of sin, yet you OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." Rom 6:17

You question me saying should I say I am free from sin? God says I am right there in Romans. Don't judge the truth of what God says by how you believe some are misunderstanding or misusing it. It is truth for those who have believed and obeyed from the heart the truth God says has been accomplished through his Son.


Right, because it goes against the plain words of the Bible.


You say:
Then why are we told to continue in the faith?
Why are we told to continue in God's grace?
Why are we told to continue in His goodness (otherwise will be cut off - just like the Jews)?

We are told to continue. Many have not come to true saving faith. They have tasted, they have heard but not truly been born again. Paul's audience just like now included both born-again believers and those who are not yet. His epistles are addressed to the church, but it's a mixture and of course Paul knew this. But once we are born again, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is our guarantee which Ephesians 1 13-14 testifies to and other places in the new testament states this as well. Those who are His will continue.

My faith is in God, his promises, his work in me. I trust Him and believe Him. He will finish the work He has started in me.

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Bible Highlighter said:

Is the idea of self affliction of our bodies to keep from sinning biblical?

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Bible Highlighter said:

I look at things from the lens of Scripture alone and not through the lens of Ecclesiology (or church history). While Christian men (throughout history) can offer some great words to what Scripture says, I do not think they are an authority as many people make them out to be. God's Word is our ultimate authority.

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