Cop gets 12.5 years for 3rd degree murder

rturner76 · Jun 7, 2019

For the first time since the early 1900's my state, a police officer was convicted of murder for a shooting while of duty.

What is so different about this case? The woman was a white woman ( Australian national) and the cop was Somali.

The government here apologized to the people of Australia

So is this man a murderer because he is a Muslim, Somali, or Black? Maybe it was the combination of the three that did it. First Somali in his precinct.

"The case made international headlines, sparked protests and led to the ouster of the Minneapolis police chief. The city settled a lawsuit with her family for $20 million, among the largest ever for a police shooting in the United States."
Somali-American Police Officer Sentenced to 12.5 Years in Death of Minneapolis Woman

Are we ready to admit there is a problem yet? Why does one family get a murder conviction and 20 million for their trouble and another gets not even a free burial? Still want to deny a double standard?

chevyontheriver · Jun 7, 2019

rturner76 said:
For the first time since the early 1900's my state, a police officer was convicted of murder for a shooting while of duty.

What is so different about this case? The woman was a white woman ( Australian national) and the cop was Somali.

The government here apologized to the people of Australia

So is this man a murderer because he is a Muslim, Somali, or Black? Maybe it was the combination of the three that did it. First Somali in his precinct.

"The case made international headlines, sparked protests and led to the ouster of the Minneapolis police chief. The city settled a lawsuit with her family for $20 million, among the largest ever for a police shooting in the United States."
Somali-American Police Officer Sentenced to 12.5 Years in Death of Minneapolis Woman

Are we ready to admit there is a problem yet? Why does one family get a murder conviction and 20 million for their trouble and another gets not even a free burial? Still want to deny a double standard?

The cop was reckless and killed an innocent woman. I really thought he would get away with it, being a policeman and all.

As to the sentencing, it followed the guidelines, so no mystery he got twelve and a half years. Your issue is with the jury who found him guilty, not the judge who imposed the sentence according to the guidelines.

I'm glad I don't live in Minneapolis any more. I was mugged there and the police pretty much blew it off and filed it away.

SoldierOfTheKing · Jun 7, 2019

The scandal was not that the officer shot this woman, but that he was ever allowed on the force in the first place. An affirmative action hire if there ever was one...

So the answer to your question as to whether because he’s Somali, the answer is yes. If he wasn’t he never would have got his badge.

Curtis.Hilliker · Jun 7, 2019

Is this the same district that elected Ilhan?

Kaon · Jun 7, 2019

rturner76 said:
For the first time since the early 1900's my state, a police officer was convicted of murder for a shooting while of duty.

What is so different about this case? The woman was a white woman ( Australian national) and the cop was Somali.

The government here apologized to the people of Australia

So is this man a murderer because he is a Muslim, Somali, or Black? Maybe it was the combination of the three that did it. First Somali in his precinct.

"The case made international headlines, sparked protests and led to the ouster of the Minneapolis police chief. The city settled a lawsuit with her family for $20 million, among the largest ever for a police shooting in the United States."
Somali-American Police Officer Sentenced to 12.5 Years in Death of Minneapolis Woman

Are we ready to admit there is a problem yet? Why does one family get a murder conviction and 20 million for their trouble and another gets not even a free burial? Still want to deny a double standard?

No, he was a murderer because the person who died had another nation to claim and remember them.

That is why when blacks are shot the cops get away, because not nearly anyone will make the same kind of push for justice as would someone from another country... where diplomacy can be a problem. Some of those cops would be charged if the people weren't dehumanized to the ones being shot in their backs, running away, unarmed, etc.

It's that simple. See what happens if American cops shoot Chinese, Russian, Nigerian or Korea-American citizens in the same ways they do blacks in the States. There would already be an international incident with those nations accusing American cops of killing their people.

chevyontheriver · Jun 7, 2019

Curtis.Hilliker said:
Is this the same district that elected Ilhan?

Yes.

rturner76 · Jun 7, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
The cop was reckless and killed an innocent woman. I really thought he would get away with it, being a policeman and all.

As to the sentencing, it followed the guidelines, so no mystery he got twelve and a half years. Your issue is with the jury who found him guilty, not the judge who imposed the sentence according to the guidelines.

I'm glad I don't live in Minneapolis any more. I was mugged there and the police pretty much blew it off and filed it away.

I was pretty sure that the upgrade to murder had something to do with making amends to Australia I read it was because of Australia's tight gun control the people were totally outraged.

My issue was more with the prosecution than the jury. The jury made a choice based on the facts of the case. I'm sure they were given instructions on what to consider and what constitutes murder. What I didn't like was the upgrade to murder from manslaughter. It implies intent. I wasn't there but I have a feeling the cop made a mistake and or was incompetent. I don't think he had a motive to murder the women. I don't think he wanted to kill her.I think he either got scared or pulled the trigger by accident either with an muscle twitch or some kind of flashback, paranoid thinking, or a bad read of the situation like he thought her phone was a gun. Incompetence, yes for sure. Malice and forethought? I'm not convinced

chevyontheriver · Jun 7, 2019

rturner76 said:
I was pretty sure that the upgrade to murder had something to do with making amends to Australia I read it was because of Australia's tight gun control the people were totally outraged.

My issue was more with the prosecution than the jury. The jury made a choice based on the facts of the case. I'm sure they were given instructions on what to consider and what constitutes murder. What I didn't like was the upgrade to murder from manslaughter. It implies intent. I wasn't there but I have a feeling the cop made a mistake and or was incompetent. I don't think he had a motive to murder the women. I don't think he wanted to kill her.I think he either got scared or pulled the trigger by accident either with an muscle twitch or some kind of flashback, paranoid thinking, or a bad read of the situation like he thought her phone was a gun. Incompetence, yes for sure. Malice and forethought? I'm not convinced

Forethought is needed for first degree murder, but he was convicted of third degree, which does not require premeditation at all. It appears he was reckless. Is that an accident or a habit of mind? I'm glad I was not on that jury.

Bob Crowley · Jun 8, 2019

From what I understand, the police in the USA get a lot of leeway as to what constitutes necessary lethal force. No doubt the fact they can never be sure if they're going to be shot themselves makes them a bit trigger happy.

I remember a story told by an Australian who'd been in the US for the first time. He hired a car, but for some reason the cops soon pulled him over. In Australia it's no big deal if the driver then gets out of the car, but he tried that in his US location, and the next thing he knew he was down on the ground, under armed guard and being marched off to the police station.

Eventually it all got explained, and the cops apologised, although they thought it was pretty funny. One of them asked him how long he'd been in the USA. He replied, "Oh, about two hours!"

There are police shootings here from time to time, but they're far and few between compared to the US. And this incident did make the news particularly because she was an Australian citizen.

But so do the other shootings - the high school massacres, the drive by shootings, WACO, Rodney Brown, the Las Vegas massacre and all the rest. They make the Australian news as well.

Of all western nations, the USA has by far the most shooting murders, and the most police shootings. Unless US culture changes, that won't change either.

Americans have had a reputation of being trigger happy for a long time. During World War II, Brisbane was the HQ for the South West Pacific campaign, hosting General Douglas MacArthur (who was perceived as arrogant, and not much liked, albeit necessary). There was a lot of antipathy between US and Australian troops, mainly because US troops were better paid, better clothed etc. and so they got first pick of the local girls.

This boiled over into almost open warfare at one point, with the largely unreported "Battle of Brisbane" being the worst of it, during which one Australian serviceman was killed and hundreds of troops on both sides injured. I was talking to a neighbour who was a WWII vet (like just about every other local father) about American troops, and while he and the other neighbours rarely talked about the war or anything to do with it, he remarked that in a fight "they were quick to pull out a gun or a knife" whereas Australians relied on their fists.

Battle of Brisbane - Wikipedia

Now that was 1942, 77 years ago. It would seem this trigger happiness is still a feature of American life.

Kaon · Jun 8, 2019

Bob Crowley said:
From what I understand, the police in the USA get a lot of leeway as to what constitutes necessary lethal force. No doubt the fact they can never be sure if they're going to be shot themselves makes them a bit trigger happy.

I remember a story told by an Australian who'd been in the US for the first time. He hired a car, but for some reason the cops soon pulled him over. In Australia it's no big deal if the driver then gets out of the car, but he tried that in his US location, and the next thing he knew he was down on the ground, under armed guard and being marched off to the police station.

Eventually it all got explained, and the cops apologised, although they thought it was pretty funny. One of them asked him how long he'd been in the USA. He replied, "Oh, about two hours!"

There are police shootings here from time to time, but they're far and few between compared to the US. And this incident did make the news particularly because she was an Australian citizen.

But so do the other shootings - the high school massacres, the drive by shootings, WACO, Rodney Brown, the Las Vegas massacre and all the rest. They make the Australian news as well.

Of all western nations, the USA has by far the most shooting murders, and the most police shootings. Unless US culture changes, that won't change either.

Americans have had a reputation of being trigger happy for a long time. During World War II, Brisbane was the HQ for the South West Pacific campaign, hosting General Douglas MacArthur (who was perceived as arrogant, and not much liked, albeit necessary). There was a lot of antipathy between US and Australian troops, mainly because US troops were better paid, better clothed etc. and so they got first pick of the local girls.

This boiled over into almost open warfare at one point, with the largely unreported "Battle of Brisbane" being the worst of it, during which one Australian serviceman was killed and hundreds of troops on both sides injured. I was talking to a neighbour who was a WWII vet (like just about every other local father) about American troops, and while he and the other neighbours rarely talked about the war or anything to do with it, he remarked that in a fight "they were quick to pull out a gun or a knife" whereas Australians relied on their fists.

Battle of Brisbane - Wikipedia

Now that was 1942, 77 years ago. It would seem this trigger happiness is still a feature of American life.

You are just a liberal...

[/sarcasm]

rturner76 · Jun 9, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Forethought is needed for first degree murder, but he was convicted of third degree, which does not require premeditation at all. It appears he was reckless. Is that an accident or a habit of mind? I'm glad I was not on that jury.

I guess I was thinking of premeditation and forethought as two different things. Premeditation being a planned and carried out killing. I was thinking of forethought as he thought about killing her and did just after thinking about. So it was not planned but it was intentional.

I think of manslaughter as someone got killed by accident and the accident was someone's fault. I think that's what it was. Either he thought he saw something that wasn't there or he pulled out and just squeezed without any thought like aim and shoot with one continuous action. Thereby shooting literally by mistake (hard for me to say "accident" when you are aiming at someone). A pure accident t me is taking the gun out of the case or picking it up and it goes off. That's a true accident.

The issue I have is how the Police hung him out to dry and totally abandoned him when they usually protect their own at least to some degree. In some cases they ok the shoot and they keep working, sometimes the get fired with no pension, in extreme cases they throw together some kind of manslaughter or grave bodily harm charge and suspend the sentence Here, they just ran him through the system like anybody else. That is usually a good thing to not give special treatment but they do it for all other copsbut him.

Sketcher · Jun 9, 2019

The shooting itself was inexcusable. It reminded me a little bit of Botham Jean's shooting. In both cases, I believe the shooters should go to prison.

chevyontheriver · Jun 9, 2019

rturner76 said:
The issue I have is how the Police hung him out to dry and totally abandoned him when they usually protect their own at least to some degree. In some cases they ok the shoot and they keep working, sometimes the get fired with no pension, in extreme cases they throw together some kind of manslaughter or grave bodily harm charge and suspend the sentence Here, they just ran him through the system like anybody else. That is usually a good thing to not give special treatment but they do it for all other cops but him.

I think you are right. But lets say he was found innocent and cleared of all wrongdoing and kept his job. Wouldn't somebody be screaming about how the police always get away with it (like they so often do)? This case was one where no matter the verdict someone would be screaming.

JCFantasy23 · Jun 10, 2019

The shooting was inexcusable but not pre-meditated. He was clearly nervous and overreacted. I classify it more along the lines of manslaughter and carelessness rather than high degree murder. Either way that was a sad story for everyone involved.

rturner76 · Jun 12, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
I think you are right. But lets say he was found innocent and cleared of all wrongdoing and kept his job. Wouldn't somebody be screaming about how the police always get away with it (like they so often do)? This case was one where no matter the verdict someone would be screaming.

I agree, I would have been right along with the people calling for his job. I would even understand manslaughter because it was clearly his fault, he should have seen that it wasn't a gun. It was a ceel phone covered it rhinestone or bedazzled or something shiny. I could see a nervous person mistaking something shiny for a glint off a chrome weapon but that's a stretch. I think he panicked for some reason but only Noor knows what was going on in his head. Now he gets to be a cop in prison. No picnic for him..

Cop gets 12.5 years for 3rd degree murder

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Christian Spenglerian

Now what.......

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In a Kingdom by the Sea.

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