When does one lose salvation?

-57 said:

1 Timothy is a no brainer. IT TELLS YOU IN THE SENTENCE. Do I really need to explain that to you?

Because one abandons the faith doesn't mean salvation is lost..they can't be snatched by the deception that caused them to lose faith.

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Hilarious, now Faith Only no longer even needs faith for salvation?

Yeah, you do need to explain and better than you have please. What does "they can't be snatched by the deception that caused them to lose faith" mean?

GodsGrace101 said:

YES!
Listening to Jesus and doing what HE said is a very good idea!

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Yes, all of those OSAS guys don't listen to Jesus and do what He says.

Kenny'sID said:

Hilarious, now Faith Only no longer even needs faith for salvation?

Yeah, you do need to explain and better then you have please. What does "they can't be snatched by the deception that caused them to lose faith" mean?

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Nothing can snatch you...not even the deception you were warned about.

-57 said:

You can't become not born again.

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No you can't become not born again by your mother, but you know, we already knew that?? What does that have to do with anything, I mean why are you even telling us that?

Kenny'sID said:

No you can't become not born again by your mother, but you know, we already knew that?? What does that have to do with anything, I mean why are you even telling us that?

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Really??? I have to explain it to you again? Just like you can't be born again by your mommy....once you are born again by the holy spirit you will always be born again by the Holy spirit.

You can't lose your salvation. Now, if you want to be a good little boy to make sure your butt is saved then have at it. That seems pretty selfish. On the other hand christians are suppose to do good for the GLORY of God. DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE??? I do.

-57 said:

Nothing can snatch you...not even the deception you were warned about.

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Where is that biblical?

And what in the world does Snatching Deceptions have to do with anything?? They left the faith of their own free will.

-57 said:

Really??? I have to explain it to you again? Just like you can't be born again by your mommy....once you are born again by the holy spirit you will always be born again by the Holy spirit.

You can't lose your salvation. Now, if you want to be a good little boy to make sure your butt is saved then have at it. That seems pretty selfish. On the other hand christians are suppose to do good for the GLORY of God. DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE??? I do.

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Two Questions:

Unbelievable. Where is that biblical?

DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE??? in being born again and born by your mother, they are two completely different things. One is a decision we can easily reverse, while the other is physically impossible to reverse. Where are you getting this stuff from.

KyleSpringer said:

The formula we see in salvation:

Hear the word, receive the word, receive the Holy Spirit into your heart, repent and be cleansed by the blood of Jesus into the remission of sin, often followed up with a public declaration through water baptism, and continuing on to pursuing his will and righteousness, share the Good News.

They may have encountered Jesus, but they aren’t transformed from the inside out, Jesus says, you will now them by there fruit.

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When Jesus says that he is referring to false prophets. People who have false teachings. Not how you behave, but what you teach. That's the context of that verse. How do I know this? Well read the verses before it... It is literally talking about false teachers, and what they teach.

You should not judge people on their behavior on whether they are saved or not. Not everyone is on the same part of their walk. Some people are babies in Christ and growing and getting sanctified. Examine yourself! As Paul would say.

-57 said:

Stop praying. Stop going to church. Stop reading your bible. What do you think will happen

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Just a few mentioned there that a true believer will wish to continue to do. Sometimes we may fall away but, the Holy Spirit will bring us back and it might not be a joyful experience. Although after true repentance, there is much relief.

I've seen many play the game for a while and then return to their sin. These ones did not understand repentance for the gift had not been given to them.

Parable of the seed.

M-Bob

DM25 said:

When Jesus says that he is referring to false prophets. People who have false teachings. Not how you behave, but what you teach. That's the context of that verse. How do I know this? Well read the verses before it... It is literally talking about false teachers, and what they teach.

You should not judge people on their behavior on whether they are saved or not. Not everyone is on the same part of their walk. Some people are babies in Christ and growing and getting sanctified. Examine yourself! As Paul would say.

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The fruit of the Spirit contains self control.

We died to sin, how can we live anymore in it?

Should we continue in sin though grace may abound? God forbid.

Walk not according to the flesh in order to fulfill the lusts thereof, but walk in spirit.

All Paul, telling you it’s obvious when someone isn’t pursuing Holiness. Therefore I understand this as saying, the more you are in tune with the spirit, you will naturally grow and be productive in the kingdom. Someone still implicitly sinning and trampling the blood of Christ under foot has their reward in their pleasures

DM25 said:

But you are twisting what the verse says... The verse doesn't say cut off from Christ. The verse says the branches are cut off... Meaning the parts of yourselves that bear bad fruit are cut off, this is a positive message about sanctification in your walk with him... It says branches, not the tree. It doesn't say you as a person are cut off from Christ. It says your branches that are bad are cut off... This is what it plainly states. Why are you saying you are cut off from Christ? When it doesn't say that. In fact your new spirit is sinless in itself so it can even be talking about all the branches of your old self being cut off.

Abiding in Christ is a one time thing... To believe on the gospel is to abide in him, to be made righteous and to be in Christ. To abide in Christ is to be saved... To not abide in him is saying you are not saved, you never believed on him and you were never in Christ.

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“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭JOHN 15:5

Jesus says He is the vine and His 11 faithful apostles are the branches.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:4‬

Again He says the branch (His 11 apostles) cannot bear fruit of itself, so neither can you (speaking to His 11 apostles) unless you (11 apostles again) abide in Me.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He cuts off; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes/cleanses it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:2‬

The branches that do not bear fruit are cut off. Who are the branches? Jesus’ 12 faithful apostles. What are they cut off from? The vine. Who is the vine? Christ is the vine. The apostles that do not bear fruit are cut off from Christ.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:6‬

If ANYONE (includes all who are in Christ) does not abide in Me (does not remain in Christ) He (not his sinful nature) is thrown away as a branch and dies up (withers away) and they (His angels) gather them (anyone who doesn’t remain in Christ) and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

How did you not see this friend?

-57 said:

You twist the scriptures into a false gospel concerning OSAS. You guys always in a cult like fashion have to say...here's what the greek is really saying. All the translators have gotten it wrong.

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Prove me wrong. Please I’m begging you to please search for the Greek definitions of the words I provided and please prove me wrong instead of making empty accusations.

-57 said:

You twist the scriptures into a false gospel concerning OSAS. You guys always in a cult like fashion have to say...here's what the greek is really saying. All the translators have gotten it wrong.

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And who translated the Bible to English? Protestants who were trying to push their agenda. They already had a preconceived notion when they were translating the scriptures. Do you really think that all of Christianity had it all wrong for the first 1500 years after Jesus’ ascension? That not even one of the churches established by the apostles had the correct teaching? No Christian church ever taught eternal security before the 16th century. The early church writings have refuted eternal security since 180AD beginning with St Iranaeus in his writing Adversus Haereses. Every Christian Church confirmed that his any many others writings are in fact credible as the early teachings of the church. Martin Luther on the other hand and his doctrines were rejected by every Christian church except his own. So now who is the cult?

Kenny'sID said:

Hilarious, now Faith Only no longer even needs faith for salvation?

Yeah, you do need to explain and better than you have please. What does "they can't be snatched by the deception that caused them to lose faith" mean?

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Can the gate to heaven get any wider? Ummm...no actually that’s about as big as it can get I think. Wow!!

-57 said:

Nothing can snatch you...not even the deception you were warned about.

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“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He cuts off; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:1-2‬

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:6‬

Doesn’t look like anyone is snatched away to me. Instead they are cut off by The Father Himself and cast into the fire.

DM25 said:

When Jesus says that he is referring to false prophets. People who have false teachings. Not how you behave, but what you teach. That's the context of that verse. How do I know this? Well read the verses before it... It is literally talking about false teachers, and what they teach.

You should not judge people on their behavior on whether they are saved or not. Not everyone is on the same part of their walk. Some people are babies in Christ and growing and getting sanctified. Examine yourself! As Paul would say.

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Seriously have you even read Matthew 7? Jesus said all of these one after another each building upon one another. He was reiterating on the message of obedience each time.

“"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:15-20‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:24-27‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

Can the gate to heaven get any wider? Ummm...no actually that’s about as big as it can get I think. Wow!!

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I think the gates fell slap off. lol I always expect bizarre when tackling this but that? No.

It's Nothing Only, a whole new doctrine that I'm sure would take off with a minimum of effort.

Kenny'sID said:

Where is that biblical?

And what in the world does Snatching Deceptions have to do with anything?? They left the faith of their own free will.

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Their own free will????? What caused them to have this "free will" decision? Like you being fooled into thinking salvation can be lost....they were fooled away from faith.

Kenny'sID said:

Two Questions:

Unbelievable. Where is that biblical?

DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE??? in being born again and born by your mother, they are two completely different things. One is a decision we can easily reverse, while the other is physically impossible to reverse. Where are you getting this stuff from.

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At least you can see the point now.....both can't be reversed.

BNR32FAN said:

Prove me wrong. Please I’m begging you to please search for the Greek definitions of the words I provided and please prove me wrong instead of making empty accusations.

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I don't really care to spend the time convincing you. You forced the natural reading into what it doesn't say.