Hosea 4 "my people die for lack of knowledge" question?

Mark Noo · May 10, 2019

(warning: this is a little rambling because I am not sure what I am trying to ask)
Here is an NASB URL for Hosea 4
Bible Gateway passage: Hosea 4 - New American Bible (Revised Edition)

The NASB says "ruin" instead of "die" but what does the statement mean in general?

To me it seems like what was going on in Israel than is very much like what we have in the USA today. In the sense that God is everywhere, not just because he is imminent and transcendent but because the US has churches on every corner and I have at least 3 or so different Bible study tools on my phone and of course I have physical books at home. So we are basically surrounded by God and yet we are at least as messed up as those folks were. America loves the world and friendship with the world is enmity with God. That is us.

What does the Spirit mean in Hosea when he says "die" or "ruin".

If I am right, I was chosen before the foundations of the world were poured/made. Unless God changed his mind or can somehow fail, I am not going to be "dead" or "ruined"

How can Gods chosen people come to "ruin" or "death"?

As far as I know, God chose all people to be saved, if you were chosen you are in, if not chosen, you are out? Sorry, no appeals.

Does he mean that because they were so busy being worldly that they were not preaching the word of God, because new people were not hearing the word they could not be saved. Like in Romans 10?

But that would mean my laziness could prevent Gods plan from coming to fruition for somebody else. If I can stymie Gods plan, we are all lost because he is not sovereign.

Does anyone know what i am trying to ask? because I am not even sure.

Thanks

yeshuaslavejeff · May 10, 2019

shalom
sorry, I'm not for this section.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 10, 2019

shalom,
again, sorry,
I'm not a calvinist.

crossnote · May 10, 2019

In the OT, God was dealing primarily with a nation, that being Israel and would deal with them as such. Hence He could speak in terms of ruin, forsake, divorce etc.
In the NT the emphasis is on the individual salvation and with those All who come to HIM, He will not reject but passes them from Judgment to Life. (Jn 5:24).
(God will in the near future return His focus on His people Israel).

YJM · May 10, 2019

Mark Noo said:
(warning: this is a little rambling because I am not sure what I am trying to ask)
Here is an NASB URL for Hosea 4
Bible Gateway passage: Hosea 4 - New American Bible (Revised Edition)

The NASB says "ruin" instead of "die" but what does the statement mean in general?

To me it seems like what was going on in Israel than is very much like what we have in the USA today. In the sense that God is everywhere, not just because he is imminent and transcendent but because the US has churches on every corner and I have at least 3 or so different Bible study tools on my phone and of course I have physical books at home. So we are basically surrounded by God and yet we are at least as messed up as those folks were. America loves the world and friendship with the world is enmity with God. That is us.

What does the Spirit mean in Hosea when he says "die" or "ruin".

If I am right, I was chosen before the foundations of the world were poured/made. Unless God changed his mind or can somehow fail, I am not going to be "dead" or "ruined"

How can Gods chosen people come to "ruin" or "death"?

As far as I know, God chose all people to be saved, if you were chosen you are in, if not chosen, you are out? Sorry, no appeals.

Does he mean that because they were so busy being worldly that they were not preaching the word of God, because new people were not hearing the word they could not be saved. Like in Romans 10?

But that would mean my laziness could prevent Gods plan from coming to fruition for somebody else. If I can stymie Gods plan, we are all lost because he is not sovereign.

Does anyone know what i am trying to ask? because I am not even sure.

Thanks

Hi Mark,

I quote this to myself so many times.

I get so exasperated when I see so many eyes glaze over when things like this are mentioned - hell, false prophets, the NWO, the UFO alien deception, the genesis 6 giants, the illuminati bloodlines, the supernaturalism of scripture, the divine council, spiritual warfare, the deliverance ministry, the true nature of the nachash (NOT a talking snake) and on and on and on.

99% of Christians I've met want to talk about love, love, love and bury heads in the sand to the war that rages around us on every side.

Here's my personal "message" version of this verse - "My people are ruined, made ineffective and lost because of ignorance of the unseen realm, the overwhelming evidence of the deep supernatural throughout history and just want to party in the church like it's 1999".

Blessings!

Mark Noo · May 10, 2019

YJM said:
Hi Mark,

I quote this to myself so many times.

I get so exasperated when I see so many eyes glaze over when things like this are mentioned - hell, false prophets, the NWO, the UFO alien deception, the genesis 6 giants, the illuminati bloodlines, the supernaturalism of scripture, the divine council, spiritual warfare, the deliverance ministry, the true nature of the nachash (NOT a talking snake) and on and on and on.

99% of Christians I've met want to talk about love, love, love and bury heads in the sand to the war that rages around us on every side.

Here's my personal "message" version of this verse - "My people are ruined, made ineffective and lost because of ignorance of the unseen realm, the overwhelming evidence of the deep supernatural throughout history and just want to party in the church like it's 1999".

Blessings!

The world is against us, our flesh is against us, everything is against us. We have only one ally, the Triune God. The Holy Spirit is our comforter. (and our brothers and sisters in God also help us)

Then many of us who call ourselves Christians, take the words written for us and deny or otherwise alter them to make them more palatable for both ourselves and for our enemies.
(Isn't enemies how God puts it. You are either in Gods family and you are my brother or sister or you are an enemy.)

I have heard people I love deny, diminish or twist the scriptures into stuff they know is not true to be friendly with the world. Even worse, just to be friendly with each other. Doesn't Revelations 21 tell us about "cowards"

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

and isn't it cowardly to not tell the truth or diminish it when you know what the truth is. Does "all liars" not include those who trash God's word. (as Christians we have forgiveness so this won't happen to us, but don't we also have a duty to do what is right, we are still accountable for "every careless word we utter")

{I will say this for my cowardly friends and family, when I quote scripture to refute their perversions of the scripture they never fight back. They know enough to not directly attack God's word. At least that is something. They are compromised but when forced to pick a side, their worldy translations of scripture or God's true words, they pick God.}

I complain about the world a lot, but sinners who sin gleefully are not nearly as scary to me as Christians who don't know who or what they are.

I cling to the scriptures because I am lost without them.

Thanks for answering YJM and everyone else.

It sounds like I am not the only person who knows that our house is in disrepair. That if the Church is the salt and the light and the world looks like it does, we are failing.

YJM · May 10, 2019

The funny thing Mark is that I am not a Calvanist but it's clear that scriptures like this should and do reach across the boundaries of belief and exasperate, frustrate and worry anyone who wants to take a stand for the simple truths of Christ.

Blessings!

Presbyterian Continuist · May 10, 2019

Mark Noo said:
(warning: this is a little rambling because I am not sure what I am trying to ask)
Here is an NASB URL for Hosea 4
Bible Gateway passage: Hosea 4 - New American Bible (Revised Edition)

The NASB says "ruin" instead of "die" but what does the statement mean in general?

To me it seems like what was going on in Israel than is very much like what we have in the USA today. In the sense that God is everywhere, not just because he is imminent and transcendent but because the US has churches on every corner and I have at least 3 or so different Bible study tools on my phone and of course I have physical books at home. So we are basically surrounded by God and yet we are at least as messed up as those folks were. America loves the world and friendship with the world is enmity with God. That is us.

What does the Spirit mean in Hosea when he says "die" or "ruin".

If I am right, I was chosen before the foundations of the world were poured/made. Unless God changed his mind or can somehow fail, I am not going to be "dead" or "ruined"

How can Gods chosen people come to "ruin" or "death"?

As far as I know, God chose all people to be saved, if you were chosen you are in, if not chosen, you are out? Sorry, no appeals.

Does he mean that because they were so busy being worldly that they were not preaching the word of God, because new people were not hearing the word they could not be saved. Like in Romans 10?

But that would mean my laziness could prevent Gods plan from coming to fruition for somebody else. If I can stymie Gods plan, we are all lost because he is not sovereign.

Does anyone know what i am trying to ask? because I am not even sure.

Thanks

I have given my plain answer to this on other threads, and on one have gone into a very extended discussion on the topic. I'm also not a pure Calvinist so I can't contribute here.

YJM · May 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
I have given my plain answer to this on other threads, and on one have gone into a very extended discussion on the topic. I'm also not a pure Calvinist so I can't contribute here.

Oscarr could you link those threads it would be useful thank you

Presbyterian Continuist · May 10, 2019

YJM said:
Oscarr could you link those threads it would be useful thank you

Can Calvinism reconcile God ordaining Adam to sin, and still allow Adam to have a free will?
This is the one where the debate between Hammster and me was interesting and respectful on both sides, even though we were not going to concede to each other's views.

Mark Noo · May 10, 2019

I look forward to reading the expanded thread.

People consider me a Calvanist because of my soteriology (also because I sometimes eat babies, LOL). Some people might consider me a Lutheran because I agree wholeheartedly with his statements on the 5 Solas and because of his

"Here I Stand, I Can Do No Other"

What else can a person do but that.

My thinking may be far below Gods

Issah 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

and my emotions are far from pure

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts
Jeremiah
"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Nevertheless, sheep still know the voice of their master. We know the truth. We're the ones with ears to hear and eyes to see.

We know when scriptures are being tortured into supporting a position that God doesn't approve of. We know it is never wise to be ashamed of God because he mentions giants, or because he forbids stuff that the world regards as foolishness, such as:

Deutoronomy 18
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

{although, I think except for sacrificing sons and daughter, and maybe necromancy, all that other stuff is fairly mainstream in America. Of course, I am from Portland Oregon, nearly anything is permissible here}

THanks again for joining the threads. I will read it and get up to speed.

I should also make this confession. I have not always been scripturally adept enough to defend God's word to with scripture. I didn't know enough scripture to refute things I thought were lies or half truths. Other times I have not done it because I wanted to be polite. What I am saying is that I am only slightly less cowardly than the people I used as examples. If I say the Church needs to clean its act up, so do I.

worshipjunkie · May 15, 2019

Of course, I am from Portland Oregon, nearly anything is permissible here

I'm 2 hours from there and nearly anything is permissible here too.

Welcome to CF, btw!

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Hosea 4 "my people die for lack of knowledge" question?

Mark Noo

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yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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yeshuaslavejeff

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crossnote

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YJM

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Mark Noo

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YJM

MARRIED! 20th December 2013

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