John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

friend of said:
And I see that Jason is still parading around that mentally Ill, fringe, wingnut, mass murderer and using him as the template example of the typical OSAS believer.

>___>

I have talked with real people both online and in person who admitted to me that they could mow down a crowd of people with a sub machine gun and that they would be saved while doing so. There are different degrees in the OSAS camp. I never said that all Belief Alone Proponents or OSAS proponents believe that way. I am using this example because some do believe this. Also, I bring up the worse version of OSAS because if works of no kind do not play a part in your salvation whatsoever, then being a George Sodini is the most logical choice to make if one wants to be 100% true to their statement that no works whatsoever plays a part in the salvation process. Most try to invent a work around by saying that God regenerates the believer to a point where they will simply not do those kinds of horrible sins. This means they believe in Post Calvinism. They believe that God forces or changes them to be a certain way after they make a one time decision. Their free will is no longer. Yet, they still sin. So they have free will still. But in either case, whether one is forced or not, they are fulfilling the requirement or the other half of the equation.... which is works or holiness. For you agree that a believer cannot be like a George Sodini. So this means that there is some basic level of holiness that is a requirement to be a believer. This means works and holiness is required on some level as a part of the salvation process. If not, then one can be like a George Sodini.

Some people think God turns a blind eye to a person's sins, as if God can agree with sin. However, the Bible says,

There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5).

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

worshipjunkie said:
I don't maintain my salvation. It's not a car or a pet. It's not like I'm constantly on the brink of losing it and I have to be frantically doing works to keep it going.

I hear what you're saying. What do you make of these verses, the first of which is quoting Jesus out of Luke, keep in mind that there are many verses like these....

[Luk 13:24 NLT] 24 "Work hard to enter the narrow door to God's Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail.
[Eph 4:3 NLT] 3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.
[2Pe 1:5 NLT] 5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge,
[2Pe 3:14 NLT] 14 And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
This means everything is forced upon the individual by God. So if a person is going to be saved, it is God forcing that upon the individual and the person does not really have a free will choice in the matter.

I'm hearing you. If you can show me something (I think you had links earlier?) where John teaches that God forces Himself onto His Chosen Children, I'd come to believe this. I've heard so much of his teaching, that I can't hardly imagine that if you had the chance to interview him, ask him these questions, etc, I'd bet that if you believed his clarifications, maybe you'd have a different opinion? Maybe?

Thanks again....

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
I'm hearing you. If you can show me something (I think you had links earlier?) where John teaches that God forces Himself onto His Chosen Children, I'd come to believe this. I've heard so much of his teaching, that I can't hardly imagine that if you had the chance to interview him, ask him these questions, etc, I'd bet that if you believed his clarifications, maybe you'd have a different opinion? Maybe?

Thanks again....

He's a Calvinist. I have talked with many Calvinists before online over the years and they are all saying that God forces some to be saved and He is forcing others to not be saved. John MacArthur sings the same tune as them because he is a professed Calvinist himself.

John MacArthur says, I quote:

"Think about it — if your salvation depends on you, then praise to God is ridiculous. But, in truth, your praise to God is completely appropriate, because in forming the Body before the world began, He chose you by His sovereign decree apart from any of your works. The doctrine of election demonstrates God being God, exercising divine prerogatives. For that we must praise Him.

"But that's not fair!"
Some are shocked to find that God didn't choose everyone to salvation."

~ John MacArthur.

John does not believe in Prevenient Grace like me. This is the belief that God draws people and that without this drawing, a person cannot come to God, but under the drawing of God, a person has a free will choice to either accept the Lord or reject Him. Nobody is forced to believe and or nobody is forced to not believe in this life. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

John MacArthur declares himself to be a Calvinist. Paul says we are not to call ourselves followers of other believers in 1 Corinthians 3. What makes matters worse is that Calvin rejoiced at the burning at the stake for another man. Is this the kind of man that MacArthur would like to be a follower of? Truly not good indeed. Calvinism attempts to attack the good character of God.

Article source for MacArthur's quote:
Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical? - Grace to You with John MacArthur

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
John does not believe in Prevenient Grace like me. This is the belief that God draws people and that without this drawing, a person cannot come to God, but under the drawing of God, a person has a free will choice to either accept the Lord or reject Him. Nobody is forced to believe and or nobody is forced to not believe in this life. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I believe this too, and I also believe in "Prevenient Grace" as you put it. VERY interested in this term that you've introduced me to. And, I think that this might have something to do with the seedling that was sewn in the field of thorns, it grew but did not produce fruit. Seems like this is the plant that is alive, but is waiting for God to "wake up". It's perhaps a stretch, but my pastor found that to be an interesting thought to the seedling that does not die.

Your thoughts?

BTW: You're doing a lot of writing....and that isn't easy. Again, thank you for your continued efforts. I'm impressed with your composure.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
John MacArthur says Calvin is his hero.

I would never say anything like that. In fact, I'd say that Paul is my hero. I don't depend on what others say about Scriptures; more, I depend on God, not commentary, sermons, audio recordings, etc. I found that man's ideas of scripture is what caused such division. I haven't seen one ounce of unity in this world....perhaps I might find it with you? That would make 1, for me.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
I'm hearing you. If you can show me something (I think you had links earlier?) where John teaches that God forces Himself onto His Chosen Children, I'd come to believe this. I've heard so much of his teaching, that I can't hardly imagine that if you had the chance to interview him, ask him these questions, etc, I'd bet that if you believed his clarifications, maybe you'd have a different opinion? Maybe?

Thanks again....

Here is a link on why Calvinism is unbiblical:

Reformed Theology Doctrines of Grace CALVINISM REFUTED

Here are some links on John MacArthur:
John MacArthur Grace To You Reformed Teacher EXPOSED
JOHN MACARTHUR UNSCRIPTURAL Grace To You

friend of · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
being a George Sodini is the most logical choice to make if one wants to be 100% true to their statement that no works whatsoever plays a part in the salvation process.

When you say stuff like this it just baffles me. What, in your mind, is "logical" about killing a bunch of people? Why are you projecting "logicalness" onto such an act? Or are you trying to say that you're taking OSAS to a "logical conclusion"

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
I believe this too, and I also believe in "Prevenient Grace" as you put it. VERY interested in this term that you've introduced me to. And, I think that this might have something to do with the seedling that was sewn in the field of thorns, it grew but did not produce fruit. Seems like this is the plant that is alive, but is waiting for God to "wake up". It's perhaps a stretch, but my pastor found that to be an interesting thought to the seedling that does not die.

Your thoughts?

BTW: You're doing a lot of writing....and that isn't easy. Again, thank you for your continued efforts. I'm impressed with your composure.

I believe Prevenient Grace is the best way to harmonize what Scripture says. Again, Prevenient Grace is the belief that God draws men at certain times to see and understand the gospel so as to choose it or reject it of their own free will. Without this illumination or drawing by God, a person cannot understand the gospel. For in the Parable in the Sower, we learn that the first seed did not even understand the gospel message. The devil stole the seed out of their heart before they could understand it. So there are times where a person can hear the gospel and not understand it because they have not been drawn by God yet. But God will draw all men unto Him in His timing, though.

Prevenient Grace Verses:

God draws all men:

John 1:9 says,
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

John 12:32 says,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

It's in God's timing when He will reprove men:

John 16:8-11 says,
8 “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

God's ultimate purpose and goal for our lives is to repent:

Romans 2:4 says,
“Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?”

Salvation is for all men and not just a chosen few:

Titus 2:11 says,
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 says,
3 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 says,
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

2 Peter 3:9 which states that God “is not willing that any should perish, but for all to come to repentance.”

1 John 2:2 says,
“[Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” (Also see John 1:29 - the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world).

Hebrews 2:9 essentially says,
"Jesus tasted death for everyone."

Man will be held responsible for not hearing God:

Matthew 13:15 says,
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

The Lord desired something from Jerusalem, but they would not allow Him to have it:

Matthew 23:37 (NLT) says,
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.”

Life and Death are set before us, and we are told to choose life:

Deuteronomy 30:19 says,
“I call heaven and earth as witness this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live”.

God is not far from any person:

Acts of the Apostles 17:27 says, “he be not far from every one of us”

God makes opportunities in a person's life to hear His good news:

Acts of the Apostles 16:14 says,
“And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.” (Note: This was an opening of the heart to listen and it was not a change of heart to be instantly saved and regenerated).

Good Article on this topic:
What Biblical Evidence Is There For Prevenient Grace?

Wikipedia explains Prevenient Grace here:
Prevenient grace - Wikipedia

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

friend of said:
When you say stuff like this it just baffles me. What, in your mind, is "logical" about killing a bunch of people? Why are you projecting "logicalness" onto such an act? Or are you trying to say that you're taking OSAS to a "logical conclusion"

Your missing the point I am trying to make. You believe that no sin can separate you from God, right? Or at least you believe that no works play a part in salvation. Do not murder is a command, just as believing in Jesus is a command, and loving God and loving your neighbor are commands. Certain good works are commands from the Lord. If we are commanded to do certain things (Which are works), and yet you say that we are not saved by works, then you can live however you like and still be saved. A believer can sleep around with other women and be saved, or lie and be saved, etc. That's the conclusion you have to follow if you say that no works or holiness plays a part in our salvation. The alternative is to say that one can sin and still be saved on some level. But the Bible does not teach that. The position you have to hold to is.... unholiness or no works because you say that no works are necessary as a part of salvation. When you created your username, was it not from the pop Christian phrase or song: "Jesus: Friend of Sinners"?

Do you believe Jesus is a friend of sinners?
If so, then he was a friend to George in his sin of mass murder and the taking of his own life.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Here is a link on why Calvinism is unbiblical:

Reformed Theology Doctrines of Grace CALVINISM REFUTED

Here are some links on John MacArthur:
John MacArthur Grace To You Reformed Teacher EXPOSED
JOHN MACARTHUR UNSCRIPTURAL Grace To You

Thank you kindly. I've copied and pasted these links for later. And again, thank you for discussing and not belittling....we need to abandon such practices.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
Thank you kindly. I've copied and pasted these links for later. And again, thank you for discussing and not belittling....we need to abandon such practices.

Your welcome. I do not think it is wrong to speak the truth about what a person falsely believes. It is when we speak ill of them and or make fun of them is when it becomes wrong. We are commanded to pray and do good towards our enemies. The author of the links I sent you seems to be a little overly harsh towards them, but he does speak the truth in regards to God's Word for the most part. While the author could have a little more heart, he does not beat around the bush when it comes to the teaching on salvation and sin.

Note: I try not to get into bashing other believers, but we should also not be ignorant about what others teach and we should tell other believers about why their beliefs are not in accordance with Scripture.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
If so, then he was a friend to George in his sin of mass murder and the taking of his own life.

But these actions defy the purpose of the Indwelling Holy Spirit. God is Love. If we have Love inside of us, it would be impossible for Him to act Himself out in such a way through our meager bodies.

By the way, having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, I have prayed over and over and over again that He would completely take me over, to take away my choices, to take away my rights, to strip me of every human idea and to completely make me His Holy Slave. I see no reason to think that I would ever wish anything other than that. And having felt that Power, I am incredibly compelled to obey, though I clearly do not have to. I desperately want to obey, and I give credit to the Holy Spirit for enabling me to do the things that I have always wanted to do, which is to be good and obedient. It isn't until the Enabler flips our switch that our "efforts" can actually become utilized. God gives Himself to those who truly, truly fear Him. I've never met a single soul that actually fears God as I do. I hope to meet one, one day.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The author of the links I sent you seems to be a little overly harsh towards them, but he does speak the truth in regards to God's Word for the most part.

Great post about not being harsh on each other, and I hear what you're saying about the author. I'll be able to see through to the truth, for sure. I try to see the entire forest, not just the trees in front of me.

May your day be perfect.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
But these actions defy the purpose of the Indwelling Holy Spirit. God is Love. If we have Love inside of us, it would be impossible for Him to act Himself out in such a way through our meager bodies.

By the way, having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, I have prayed over and over and over again that He would complete take me over, to take away my choices, to take away my rights, to strip me of every human idea and to completely make me His Holy Slave. I see no reason to think that I would ever wish anything other than that. And having felt that Power, I am incredibly compelled to obey, though I clearly do not have to. I desperate want to obey, and I give credit to the Holy Spirit for enabling me to do the things that I have always wanted to do, which is to be good and obedient. It isn't until the Enabler flips our switch that our "efforts" can actually become utilized. God gives Himself to those who truly, truly fear Him. I've never met a single soul that actually fears God as I do. I hope to meet one, one day.

Well, you met one online. Me. I do believe one grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hate, etc.) can separate a believer from God. I believe Ananias and Sapphira lost their salvation and they were condemned to hell for their sin of lying to the Holy Ghost. Yes, God is merciful and He can help us to overcome grievous sin. I believe God can and does enable us believers who truly want to follow Him.

I believe we are living in the last days.

Many have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
The power thereof would be to live a holy life by God's power.
This is what they deny because they don't want it.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
Great post about not being harsh on each other, and I hear what you're saying about the author. I'll be able to see through to the truth, for sure. I try to see the entire forest, not just the trees in front of me.

May your day be perfect.

Thank you. Again, keep in mind that the author is not a someone I look up to. I prefer to speak in love and kindness. He seems to be a little overly harsh and he could be more loving in the Lord. But he does have great understanding on the topic of sin and salvation (none the less). I find his website as helpful resource that helps to clarify what the OSAS or Belief Alone type believers are really selling. He has a lot of good articles. Especially the one on King David.

King David and Bathsheba | King David's Adultery

Eternal Security is contradictory (or self defeating), and it leads the speaker to put forth a double message (Whether they realize that fact or not):
Mark Driscoll Mars Hill Church Dan Corner Debate

Side Note:

Please keep in mind, that I do agree with the author of the website (Dan Corner) on the Trinity, and sin and salvation (for the most part), and the Bible is our sole authority, but there are other minor things I disagree with him on.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I do believe one grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hate, etc.) can separate a believer from God.

I hear you, but Paul indicates another idea. How can we resolve this conflict between ideas?

[Rom 8:38 NLT] "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."

Fear is Satan's greatest weapon which causes another sin called "worry". Paul indicates the opposite, for he taught that all sin and blasphemy is forgivable, which had already been done by placing Abraham-like faith into Jesus. Therefore, now, having had our sin nature removed, when we [do] sin, we have an advocate, but we are not condemned.

There, of course, is so much more to these doctrines. It would be great to talk to you face to face to go through these things much more quickly.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
I hear you, but Paul indicates another idea. How can we resolve this conflict between ideas?

[Rom 8:38 NLT] "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."

Fear is Satan's greatest weapon which causes another sin called "worry". Paul indicates the opposite, for he taught that all sin and blasphemy is forgivable, which had already been done by placing Abraham-like faith into Jesus. Therefore, now, having had our sin nature removed, when we [do] sin, we have an advocate, but we are not condemned.

There, of course, is so much more to these doctrines. It would be great to talk to you face to face to go through these things much more quickly.

Romans 8:
38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

One thing you will notice that is not on this list of things is:

(a) You.
(b) Your sin.

The whole list are things that are external.

Romans 8:13 says,
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).

Certain Modern Translations remove the part in Romans 8:1 that says, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
I hear you, but Paul indicates another idea. How can we resolve this conflict between ideas?

[Rom 8:38 NLT] "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."

Fear is Satan's greatest weapon which causes another sin called "worry". Paul indicates the opposite, for he taught that all sin and blasphemy is forgivable, which had already been done by placing Abraham-like faith into Jesus. Therefore, now, having had our sin nature removed, when we [do] sin, we have an advocate, but we are not condemned.

There, of course, is so much more to these doctrines. It would be great to talk to you face to face to go through these things much more quickly.

Believers are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace (i.e. Jesus Christ). It is why a person who comes to Jesus for the first time can have an assurance of salvation (Without doing any kind of work). Initial and ultimate salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are not ultimately saved by works of righteousness we have done alone without God's mercy (Titus 3:5). For even if a believer were to stumble into sin, do they get clean by doing another work? No. They get clean by confessing their sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) and they ask Jesus to help them to overcome their sin (or to forsake it) (Matthew 26:41) (Romans 13:14) (John 15:5). But make no mistake, Scripture is also abundantly clear in that it teaches we are saved by "works of faith" after we are saved by God's grace, too. Simply click on the following spoiler button to check out the verses.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

There are five things (as a whole) in the Bible that people are not getting when they read Paul, and thus they easily misunderstand him in justifying a false "sin and still be saved" or "Belief Alone" type gospel (Which is no doubt appealing because it means that a person does not have to change their life all that much and they can live for themselves instead of the Lord). But Jesus says, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46) (NHEB).

Here are the 5 things (as a whole) in Scripture that your average Christian does not understand when they read Paul:

#1. The Bible teaches that there is a change of the Law (Hebrews 7:12); So when Paul talks about the "Law" (generically), he is referring to the Torah, i.e. the Old Law (or the many laws given to Moses and Israel) and not the commandments given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers (i.e. the New Law or New Testament Law). See post #103 in another thread to learn more.

#2. Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); A certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. See post #105 in another thread to learn more.

#3. The Bible speaks against the "False Pharisee Religion" that Paul used to be part of (Which taught: "Law Alone Salvationism" or "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace, i.e. Jesus Christ) (See Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:9-14). Hence, why Paul said we are saved by God's grace through faith and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9) and that we are not saved by works of righteousness that we have done but we are saved by his mercy (Titus 3:5).

#4. The Bible teaches that sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

#5. The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

friend of · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Your missing the point I am trying to make. You believe that no sin can separate you from God, right?

I believe sin can separate us from God's will for our lives, yes. But I do not believe that saving faith is some revolving door where you're in one moment and out the next with each trespass. That's your belief, yes?

I'm aware you hold to sinless perfectionism, correct? Yet I do recal you admitting (sensibly) that you are not completely sinless yourself, in a thread at one time. So really, you only end up condemning yourself with such ideation. Even Paul, arguably the most Spirit filled person on earth on his time, said in Phillipians 3:12

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus" (kjv)

Jason0047 said:
When you created your username, was it not from the pop Christian phrase or song: "Jesus: Friend of Sinners"?

Never heard that song. But since you asked, it was actually James 2:23

John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

A private in Gods army

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

A private in Gods army

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