One of the first century Christian writings that I read is the Gospel of Thomas, which is made up of Jesus' sayings, some of which are in the New Testament, and some others being found in the Church fathers as authentic sayings by Jesus (such respected sayings by Jesus outside the Bible are known as the "Agrapha"). On the other hand, the text is apocryphal, may be gnostic or "proto-gnostic", and doesn't have any authority in the Coptic Church. I'm sure that Coptic theologians share the same skepticism about the Gospel of Thomas that the EOs, RCs, and traditional Protestants have.
Much of it only survives in a Coptic language Nag Hammadi set of papyri and English translations of some of its sayings differ drastically. So I would like to see if anyone knows Coptic well enough to suggest which of the translations of the three Sayings below are best. There are hardly any forums online for people who know Coptic, so I thought that this might be some place that I could ask about the translations to these Sayings.
1. The Coptic text of Saying 70 goes:
There are quite different translations of this:
The passage reminds me of Mark 4:24-25:
2. Do you think that Jesus asks if he is a "divider" or an "arbitrator" in Saying 72, below?:
LAMBDIN'S TRANSLATION:
This Saying is probably related to Luke 12:13-14, which goes:
Compare with Luke 12:
3. Does Saying 74 state that "nothing is in the well" or that "nobody is in the well"?
Gerd Ludemann writes:
Much of it only survives in a Coptic language Nag Hammadi set of papyri and English translations of some of its sayings differ drastically. So I would like to see if anyone knows Coptic well enough to suggest which of the translations of the three Sayings below are best. There are hardly any forums online for people who know Coptic, so I thought that this might be some place that I could ask about the translations to these Sayings.
1. The Coptic text of Saying 70 goes:
There are quite different translations of this:
Do you think that the Coptic text uses the word "kill" (ie. in "That which you do not have within you will kill you")?LAMBDIN'S TRANSLATION: Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."
DORESSE'S TRANSLATION: Jesus says: "When you have something left to share among you, what you possess will save you. But if you cannot share [among you], that which you have not among you, that [ ... ? ... will ...] you.
The passage reminds me of Mark 4:24-25:
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
2. Do you think that Jesus asks if he is a "divider" or an "arbitrator" in Saying 72, below?:
LAMBDIN'S TRANSLATION:
LAYTON'S TRANSLATION:A man said to him, "Tell my brothers to divide my father's possessions with me."
He said to him, "O man, who has made me a divider?"
He turned to his disciples and said to them, "I am not a divider, am I?"
I notice that the word "NPE4ПШЩЕ" appears at the end of lines 2 and 3 in the Coptic, but doesn't appear in line 1. This suggests to me that Layton's translation's use of "arbitrator" is better because it uses "arbitrator" only at the end of lines 2 and 3.Some person [said] to him, "Tell my siblings to share my father's possessions with me." He said to that person, "My good fellow, who has made me into an arbitrator?" He turned to his disciples and said to them, "So am I an arbitrator?"
This Saying is probably related to Luke 12:13-14, which goes:
Compare with Luke 12:
13. And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
14. And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
3. Does Saying 74 state that "nothing is in the well" or that "nobody is in the well"?
3 of the 5 translations on the Gospel of Thomas Translations Comparison webpage say "nothing", whereas the other 2 say "no one" and "nobody". (The Gospel of Thomas: Compare The Translations)LAMBDIN'S TRANSLATION:
He said, "O Lord, there are many around the drinking trough, but there is nothing in the cistern."
BLATZ'S TRANSLATION:
He said: Lord, there are many about the well, but no one in the well.
Gerd Ludemann writes:
I found Celsus' quote of the gnostics' book A Heavenly Dialogue as saying, "How comes it, that while so many go about the well, no one goes down into it?"(quoted in Origen's Against Celsus VIII.15, CHURCH FATHERS: Contra Celsum, Book VIII (Origen))"This ... has an equivalent in the anti-Christian philosopher Celsus (c. 180 CE), who read it in a writing with the title 'Heavenly Dialogue'. It was in circulation among the Gnostic group of the Ophites (serpent worshippers). There it runs, 'Why are there many around the well and no one in the well?' Evidently the aphorism is meant to encourage the Gnostic to stop being a bystander and enter, in order also to be able to drink the water of knowledge." (Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 627)