Protestant acknowledges "5 things we lost because of the Reformation" -One of the best I've read...

This part stood out.

We lost the silence
Many women – nuns and laity alike – engaged their imaginations in their relationship with God. They had 'mystical', contemplative experiences. But without the monasteries, there was no structured, safe place for mysticism to flourish – either for men or women. The ecstatic visionary prophecies of radicals like the Zwickau prophets, and especially the apocalyptic madness of Münster only reinforced the idea that this was dangerous. When the Lutheran shoemaker Jakob Böhme (1575-1624) had a series of visionary experiences he was ostracised by his fellow Lutherans. Leave such things to the radical Protestant sects. Or even those new-fangled Jesuits.

Other kinds of prayer were also suspicious. Contemplation and meditation were staples of the monastic life. The tradition of lectio divina – a contemplative reading of scripture – was lost to the Protestant Church, which preferred other ways of reading the scriptures. And while later, radical groups like the Quakers embraced silence and the promptings of the Spirit, most of the others got a lot of verbiage. And, as time went on, even more hymns and songs. In the words of Diarmaid MacCulloch, "noise was the characteristic of the mainstream Protestant Reformation".
And now for the bad news: what we lost because of the Reformation - Premier Christianity

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I wasn't always Catholic. But back in my evangelical days, I had to acknowledge that I didn't find the noisy, raucous environment of my Southern Baptist community very dignified.

Or, for that matter, very productive.

One thing I appreciated as a convert was the Church's respect for peace and quiet. Not everything needs to be a joyful noise. In fact, most things don't need to be a joyful noise. I suppose my cause isn't helped by the fact that I suffer from sensory-overload very easily. It doesn't take much. And so the Mass, with its reverence and dignity, is a far better environment for me on a natural basis.

A few years ago, I studied Buddhism and even took some classes in meditation at my local Tibetan Buddhism center, and it made me wonder why Christianity didn't seem to uphold similar practices as meditation, quiet prayer, listening, etc. didn't seem something that should be specific to any particular religion. Then after further investigation, I discovered that Christianity did have a rich history in such disciplines that have been largely ignored in modern Christianity. Now I don't know whether it can be specifically blamed on the Reformation since there are many other factors that could contribute since then, but I would agree that we have lost something by ignoring these types of practices.

I've recently read that a number of people have been turning to other religions, such as Buddhism, because they are craving these types of contemplative spiritual disciplines that are often not being encouraged in their churches, perhaps because church leadership is largely ignorant of them.

Now, I don't personally mind a good, loud and "enthusiastic" service, but at the same time I feel it must be balanced by more quiet spiritual practices, including silence.

Michie said:

...on it

*You are in the Catholic forum*

The anniversary of the Reformation is clearly a cause for celebration. But it's worth remembering that for all its undoubted benefits, the Reformation wasn't good news for everyone. It's heroes were not entirely without flaws, nor its villains entirely without merit...

Continued below.
Protestant Acknowledges “Five Things We Lost because of the Reformation” – one of the best I’ve read on it | Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Ray

And now for the bad news: what we lost because of the Reformation - Premier Christianity

Click to expand...

I think there are a few other ones. Ecclesiology is a big one. I tried to do a thread on that a few days back, but it got little attention. Many Protestants don't see the Church as sacred, for them the Church is just God's non-profit organization that was established to spread the Gospel, I nicknamed that viewpoint in my thread "Independent Contractors for Christ".


Independent Contractors for Christ (limitations of utilitarian Ecclesiology)

I wouldn't expect Protestants to acknowledge this but one thing that got lost with the "reformation" is reliable theology. A cursory look around CF shows utterly deplorable insight and theological analysis among Protestants.

The organizing principle of Protestant thought is an unspoken rebellion against the Pope. So a given doctrine might be rejected out of hand because of an implicit loathing of anything that seems too similar to what the Catholics do.

One byproduct of this is a constant reevaluation of the Christian faith with each passing generation. The original "reformers" were a lot more Catholic than their modern day counterparts. But a lot of their beliefs have been categorically rejected by their successors. The trend seems to be deleting more and more of the Catholic faith with each subsequent generation.

Things have reached a point where I'm not at all convinced that Protestantism will even be recognizably Christian anymore in another two or three generation. As a guess, I'd venture that Protestantism will resemble Deism or Unitarianism or some such eventually.

Michie said:

...on it

*You are in the Catholic forum*

The anniversary of the Reformation is clearly a cause for celebration. But it's worth remembering that for all its undoubted benefits, the Reformation wasn't good news for everyone. It's heroes were not entirely without flaws, nor its villains entirely without merit...

Continued below.
Protestant Acknowledges “Five Things We Lost because of the Reformation” – one of the best I’ve read on it | Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Ray

And now for the bad news: what we lost because of the Reformation - Premier Christianity

Click to expand...

Hi Michie,

Actually, the reformers Lost 6, and the #1 Should be that they Lost The Most Holy Eucharist. John 6: 52-56 below: Lost more if you count the other Sacraments of Penance.

John 6: 52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, (aka Eucharist) you shall not have life in you. 54He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

How easily the reformers forget about John 6:53 it's like they too say, like the Jews in John 6:52 "...How can this man give us his flesh to eat"?

All reformers must, must come back to John 6:53 and that is to come Back to the Eucharist the central focus of the Catholic Church, the main ingredient to salvation, says Jesus Christ not me.

Reformers, Food for thought and the human body Literally and that are when Christ's has two Amen Amen before he starts a sentence, He means that you should take it LITERALLY not Symbolically because your Body and Soul Salvation depends on it.

I just may be booted out for saying the truth, so be it, for I feel Jesus would boot me out for not saying it, so therefore I say it.

Pan De Vida

thecolorsblend said:

I wouldn't expect Protestants to acknowledge this but one thing that got lost with the "reformation" is reliable theology. A cursory look around CF shows utterly deplorable insight and theological analysis among Protestants.

The organizing principle of Protestant thought is an unspoken rebellion against the Pope. So a given doctrine might be rejected out of hand because of an implicit loathing of anything that seems too similar to what the Catholics do.

One byproduct of this is a constant reevaluation of the Christian faith with each passing generation. The original "reformers" were a lot more Catholic than their modern day counterparts. But a lot of their beliefs have been categorically rejected by their successors. The trend seems to be deleting more and more of the Catholic faith with each subsequent generation.

Things have reached a point where I'm not at all convinced that Protestantism will even be recognizably Christian anymore in another two or three generation. As a guess, I'd venture that Protestantism will resemble Deism or Unitarianism or some such eventually.

Click to expand...

It's amazing the amount of times I've heard people say "we don't do that (or do things that way) because it's too Catholic".

Came across this article today while looking for some information on something else and it reminded me of a part of this thread.

What ever happened to contemplative prayer?

(Note that this site is oriented towards United Methodists.)

While I don't believe that there is ever going to be unity in the sense that everyone is going to suddenly flock back to the Roman Catholic church, I do believe there are ways we can be united in spirit and can learn from one another even if we don't do everything the same.