Must we endure in the faith by continuously believing and repenting?

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Continual belief/faith is necessary
for continual salvation/eternal life
The original Greek manuscripts reveal the verb tenses:
“… whoever believes [present tense: continues to believe] in Him may have [present tense: may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world, that
He gave His only Son, that whoever believes
[present tense: continues to believe] in Him should
not perish but have [present tense: continue to have]
eternal life.” (John 3:15-16)
Glory be! ... Is it possible that even the venerable
John 3:16 stands against eternal security!

BACs must endure in the faith to receive eternal life
● Colossians 1:22-23
“He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —
IF indeed you continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel”
● 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
“It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you,
IF you continue to believe the message I told you”
● Hebrews 2:3
“So what makes us think we can escape
(from disobedience),
IF we ignore this great salvation”
● 2 Timothy 2:12
“IF we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”
● Hebrews 3:12-14 “Make sure that …
none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.
For IF we are faithful to the end, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.”
● Revelation 2:10
“But IF you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of (eternal) life”
Because of the above verses, this also refer to salvation:
● Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13
“But the one who endures to the end
(of his/her life) will be saved.”

From The Holman Christian Standard Bible
“Repent (metanoeo) and believe (pisteou) may be understood as opposite sides of the same coin. Repent means to turn from one’s allegiance to sin and unbelief, whereas believe means to place one’s trust in Christ. Thus, when one is mentioned the other is implied. …
John never used the words repent, repentance, or faith to describe the way people are saved. Instead, he used believe since this term included all of these ideas.”

Just what does this single word “believe” really mean?
Dr. Lester Sumrall (the world-famous evangelist)
decided he really needed to research this … and
his conclusion was that it must include obedience!

True saving belief =
enduring deep faith, trust, repentance, obedience

BACs must repent of their sins
to receive eternal life
● “But if we confess (repent) our sins to him,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9)
● “My dear children, I am writing this to you
so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin,
we have an advocate who pleads our case
before the Father. He is Jesus Christ,
the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1)
Anyone like to see a whole page of NT verses about this?

Quiz questions -- Romans 6 insists we have choices
Shall I be a slave of sin which leads to
eternal death?
Shall I be a slave of obedience which leads to
righteousness?
Shall I be a slave of righteousness which leads to
holiness?

Quiz answers
1 page of NT verses is available on:
obedience is necessary for salvation.
1 page of NT verses is available on:
righteousness is necessary for salvation.

Basil the Great · Feb 19, 2019

The Early Church was not at all big on continuously repenting. It seems that they only allowed one mortal/grave sin and repentance to be allowed after a person was baptized. Eventually it was decided that there would be no limit on how many times a person could commit a grave sin and repent. I do not recall when the change took place.

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Basil the Great said:
The Early Church was not at all big on continuously repenting. It seems that they only allowed one mortal/grave sin and repentance to be allowed after a person was baptized. Eventually it was decided that there would be no limit on how many times a person could commit a grave sin and repent. I do not recall when the change took place.

Yes, thank you ... I believe you mentioned this before.
By "before" I'm not repeating the KJV in Matt 24:25,
which sounds like "previously". lol
The NKJV has corrected this problem to "beforehand".

As you know, Hebrews 10:26-27 only allows one sin,
but I don't even go there ... way too condemning!

St_Worm2 · Feb 19, 2019

Basil the Great said:
The Early Church was not at all big on continuously repenting. It seems that they only allowed one mortal/grave sin and repentance to be allowed after a person was baptized. Eventually it was decided that there would be no limit on how many times a person could commit a grave sin and repent. I do not recall when the change took place.

Here's what the CCC has to say about this. I've always found this look back at the way things once were to be interesting.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1447 Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this “order of penitents” (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the “private” practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day.

--David

Basil the Great · Feb 19, 2019

St_Worm2 said:
Here's what the CCC has to say about this.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1447 Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this “order of penitents” (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the “private” practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day.

--David

Yes, not only was repentance severely limited in the early Church, but there was strict penance as well. I recall one rule that if a Christian killed someone in a fight, even unintentionally, he was barred from the Eucharist for ten years.

Kenny'sID · Feb 19, 2019

I agree with the general message in the OP.

On this:

BCsenior said:
As you know, Hebrews 10:26-27 only allows one sin,
but I don't even go there ... way too condemning!

FWIW, I think that just means if we continue not in sin out of temptation or ignorance, but wilful sin as a lifestyle, or as the norm in our lives, and without repentance, Christs sacrifice will no longer cover us.

IOW, it's not nearly as scary as it sounds.

St_Worm2 · Feb 19, 2019

Basil the Great said:
Yes, not only was repentance severely limited in the early Church, but there was strict penance as well. I recall one rule that if a Christian killed someone in a fight, even unintentionally, he was barred from the Eucharist for ten years.

It's interesting, is it not, to consider how the Sacrament of Penance in the West has evolved over the centuries .. and to what degree it has.

--David

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
I agree with the general message in the OP.
Hebrews 10 ...
FWIW, I think that just means if we continue not in sin out of temptation or ignorance, but wilful sin as a lifestyle, or as the norm in our lives, and without repentance, Christs sacrifice will no longer cover us.
IOW, it's not nearly as scary as it sounds.

Re: your lead-off ...
I'm managing to get up off the floor!
It says wilful sin, but of course, it doesn't speak
on habitual ... as per usual in the NT.
But guess what?
Those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God.
Isn't He allowed to reveal some of the sublties?
Not subtitles, sublties.

Oldmantook · Feb 19, 2019

In a word, yes. The vast majority of English Bibles do a poor job of accurately translating the Greek verb tenses. The "believe" in John 3:16 should read "believing." The "obey" in Heb 5:9 should read "obeying." Thus one must continue to believe and obey in order to have eternal life instead of a one-time moment of belief/obedience. Why translators do this, I have no idea; perhaps their bias?

Kenny'sID · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
Re: your lead-off ...
I'm managing to get up off the floor!
It says wilful sin, but of course, it doesn't speak
on habitual ... as per usual in the NT.
But guess what?
Those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God.
Isn't He allowed to reveal some of the sublties?
Not subtitles, sublties.

Not sure what the "floor" comment means.

This is why I started my post with "I think", and considering the whole bible, as well as what I believe the holy spirit reveals/common sense on the matter, I still think it means just that.

A common sense hint, if it were not habitual sin, one could simply repent and ask forgiveness...done deal, so what else can it be.

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Not sure what the "floor" comment means.
This is why I started my post with "I think", and considering the whole bible, as well as what I believe the holy spirit reveals/common sense on the matter, I still think it means just that.
A common sense hint, if it were not habitual sin, one could simply repent and ask forgiveness...done deal, so what else can it be.

I was so shocked at your lead-off.
The one sin was what the early church believed
(as seen in earlier posts).

timothyu · Feb 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
FWIW, I think that just means if we continue not in sin out of temptation or ignorance, but wilful sin as a lifestyle, or as the norm in our lives, and without repentance, Christs sacrifice will no longer cover us.

IOW, it's not nearly as scary as it sounds.

Considering sin is putting our will before the will of God which states, put His will first which is love all as self.

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Oldmantook said:
In a word, yes. The vast majority of English Bibles do a poor job of accurately translating the Greek verb tenses. The "believe" in John 3:16 should read "believing." The "obey" in Heb 5:9 should read "obeying." Thus one must continue to believe and obey in order to have eternal life instead of a one-time moment of belief/obedience. Why translators do this, I have no idea; perhaps their bias?

Many thanks for your response, old guy.
I greatly value your input.
I'm not the least bit impressed with the translations.
Foist of oil, how they divided up the verses.
Secondly, were these guys even saved?
Led by the Spirit?
Some Greek words can have up to 40 meanings,
depending on context.
"In a word, yes" what?

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

timothyu said:
Considering sin is putting our will before the will of God which states, put His will first which is love all as self.

I like your upside-down thinkin'.

Oldmantook · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
Many thanks for your response, old guy.
I greatly value your input.
I'm not the least bit impressed with the translations.
Foist of oil, how they divided up the verses.
Secondly, were these guys even saved?
Led by the Spirit?
Some Greek words can have up to 40 meanings,
depending on context.
"In a word, yes" what?

In a word yes, believers must continue in the faith by believing and repenting. The tragedy is that many pulpits no longer preach this message and so the sheep remain blinded and led to slaughter. To my regret I learned (am still learning) the hard way and it affected not only myself but my family as well.

timothyu · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
I like your upside-down thinkin'.

Well Jesus brought us the upside down Kingdom compared to the world of man.

Kenny'sID · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
The one sin was what the early church believed

And?

My post was what I believed. I'm not sure I understand your reaction? I didn't see my post as out of order at all.

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

timothyu said:
Well Jesus brought us the upside down Kingdom compared to the world of man.

Yeah, so guess you're the only one doin' it right!

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
I didn't see my post as out of order at all.

You're not out of order at all.
You just get stuff mixed up!
Try readin' more slowly.
Maybe upside down will help like it does Timmy.

timothyu · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
Yeah, so guess you're the only one doin' it right!

Hardly, but that was the whole point of a dual nature in man which became a dual nature within the church. But there is only one Gospel of the Kingdom.

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