Constantine created Christianity

Maria Billingsley said:

We will go in circles as I am a Protestant.

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Hardly. We won't go anywhere as long as you won't provide any evidence for your claims.

prodromos said:

Hardly. We won't go anywhere as long as you won't provide any evidence for your claims.

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These are not my claims. This is historical accounts. It is not my place to teach you the truth and the deep study that is required to uncover it is up to you.
Blessings

JM said:

I hear this claim repeated over and over again from different people that Constantine created Christianity after the council of Nicaea or the Edict of Milan. Joe Rogan makes this claim on his podcast which gets millions of downloads, Gnostics make this claim, etc.

Where does it come from?

Who first made this assertion?

What "proof" do they offer in defence of such a claim?

It's repeated often but I haven't been able to track down a source for such a claim, a claim so easily refuted.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

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The only thing that Constantine can take credit for it declaring the "venerable day of the sun"--Sunday-- as the mandated day of rest. Changing it from the 7th day.

The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is:
"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost."

Maria Billingsley said:

These are not my claims. This is historical accounts.

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Not true, but if it were you would be able to point to those 'historical' accounts.

It is not my place to teach you the truth and the deep study that is required to uncover it is up to you.

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Falsely assumes I have not engaged in deep study of Church history. I have, which is how I recognise your claims as nonsense.

mmksparbud said:

The only thing that Constantine can take credit for it declaring the "venerable day of the sun"--Sunday-- as the mandated day of rest. Changing it from the 7th day.

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There was no day of rest in the Roman Empire prior to Constantine, so it is misleading to claim that Constantine changed it from the Sabbath to Sunday. Christians had been worshipping early on Sunday morning before going to work, long before Constantine made it a day of rest for the Empire.

prodromos said:

There was no day of rest in the Roman Empire prior to Constantine, so it is misleading to claim that Constantine changed it from the Sabbath to Sunday. Christians had been worshipping early on Sunday morning before going to work, long before Constantine made it a day of rest for the Empire.

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For the 1st Christians it was the 7th day Sabbath. It was when the apostles all were worshipping and when all first Christians got together for worship. They slowly started to switch to Sunday to distance themselves from the Jews. There was no state day of rest until Constantine. He did it to incorporate the pagans and the Christians into one to bring unity to the kingdom.

prodromos said:

Not true, but if it were you would be able to point to those 'historical' accounts.

Falsely assumes I have not engaged in deep study of Church history. I have, which is how I recognise your claims as nonsense.

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You keep accusing me of being false and speaking nonsense yet you have not offered anything to substantiate your claims which by the way you have not yet shared. I respectively opt out of any more communication with you as it is now getting mean spirited.

mmksparbud said:

For the 1st Christians it was the 7th day Sabbath. It was when the apostles all were worshipping and when all first Christians got together for worship.

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The first Christians were Jews, so naturally the Sabbath was a day of rest, but the Christians were worshipping every day of the week and not specifically on the Sabbath as you imply. Sunday was understood by the early Christians as the eighth day and took on significance as the day of Christ's resurrection, upon which our salvation rests.

They slowly started to switch to Sunday to distance themselves from the Jews.

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They always worshipped primarily on Sunday, despite having to work that day.

There was no state day of rest until Constantine. He did it to incorporate the pagans and the Christians into one to bring unity to the kingdom.

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What evidence do you have? Where did Constantine write that this was his purpose?

prodromos said:

The first Christians were Jews, so naturally the Sabbath was a day of rest, but the Christians were worshipping every day of the week and not specifically on the Sabbath as you imply. Sunday was understood by the early Christians as the eighth day and took on significance as the day of Christ's resurrection, upon which our salvation rests.

They always worshipped primarily on Sunday, despite having to work that day.

What evidence do you have? Where did Constantine write that this was his purpose?

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Since this could easily fall into a Sabbath thread and that is not what the thread is about I will just say that ---I obviously disagree with you and that there is no such thing as an 8th day--but you are, of course, free to have your own opinion.

mmksparbud said:

Since this could easily fall into a Sabbath thread and that is not what the thread is about I will just say that ---I obviously disagree with you and that there is no such thing as an 8th day--but you are, of course, free to have your own opinion.

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You are also free to have your own opinion
God bless.

mmksparbud said:

For the 1st Christians it was the 7th day Sabbath. It was when the apostles all were worshipping and when all first Christians got together for worship.

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Not so. Both the N.T. and early Christian writers speak of gathering together on the first day of the week -- the day which the Romans called Sunday.

mmksparbud said:

there is no such thing as an 8th day

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Of course there is; early Christian authors write about it.

The 8th day is of course Sunday, but viewed as the day after the Sabbath.

Radagast said:

Not so. Both the N.T. and early Christian writers speak of gathering together on the first day of the week -- the day which the Romans called Sunday.

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They gathered on the 1st day of the week to break bread----which also means to eat. They were in the temple and the synagogues on Sabbath. The one that says they met on the 1st day of the week and preached till midnight--read it carefully. They met on Saturday night, because Pail was leaving and would br gone a long time --the Jewish day starts at sundown. They met for dinner, afterward, Paul preached till midnight. Paul did not preach Sunday morning till midnight without a break. After the boy was revived they ate again and he preached till morning then he went to the boat--if he had kept the Sabbath on Sunday, he would not have traveled on that day.

Radagast said:

Of course there is; early Christian authors write about it.

The 8th day is of course Sunday, but viewed as the day after the Sabbath.

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They can call it what ever they want---God created the world in 6 days and rested the 7th---he finished creating. There is no 8thday of the week. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week not the 8th day of the week. The "early authors" do not take precedence over the word of God--not to mention they can't override the 7day week all over the world.

mmksparbud said:

They can call it what ever they want---God created the world in 6 days and rested the 7th---he finished creating. There is no 8thday of the week. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week not the 8th day of the week. The "early authors" do not take precedence over the word of God--not to mention they can't override the 7day week all over the world.

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The eighth day is a new day, an eternal day not followed by night, which breaks out of the endless cycle of seven days. It was typified by the the Old Testament requirement that all male children be circumcised on the eighth day regardless of whether it happened to be a Sabbath. When Christians are baptised into Christ they participate in His death and resurrection, rising with Him on the eighth day.

mmksparbud said:

They can call it what ever they want---God created the world in 6 days and rested the 7th---he finished creating.

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And after resting, He did something new: God the Son became incarnate as Jesus.

mmksparbud said:

Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week not the 8th day of the week.

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Two names for the same thing.

Radagast said:

And after resting, He did something new: God the Son became incarnate as Jesus.

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I forgot to add, God resting on the seventh day in Genesis was looking forward to when God incarnate would rest in the tomb after His crucifixion on the 6th day.

During the Roman Republic and Roman Empire, they had an eight day week, with the eighth day as a market day. Festival days were days of rest and celebration such as January 1, the celebration of Janus, the two faced god of beginnings and endings. Think of something along the lines of U.S federal holidays only a lot more of them. The newly elected officials would also be installed in their offices. So Jews in Rome were an oddity with their adherence to a seven day week.

GreekOrthodox said:

During the Roman Republic and Roman Empire, they had an eight day week, with the eighth day as a market day. Festival days were days of rest and celebration such as January 1, the celebration of Janus, the two faced god of beginnings and endings. Think of something along the lines of U.S federal holidays only a lot more of them. The newly elected officials would also be installed in their offices. So Jews in Rome were an oddity with their adherence to a seven day week.

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And yet, within a short time the seven day week followed by the Christians became the standard throughout the Empire, with the Byzantines changing the names of the days to follow the Judeo-Christian (Lord's Day, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, Preparation and Sabbath).

I'm not mature in my knowledge and understanding of God's word or Church's history. But I think it's impossible to deny the influence of separation as a predominately Jewish minority sect to a predominately Gentile majority religion. It's fair to say certainly Constantine was a significant variable in the transition and spread of Christianity as it would be known from the Council of Nicaea. Least when it's about legalizing it as a recognized religion allowed under law, also the calling of a council to unite followers under a single umbrella of beliefs and practices.