GingerBeer

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How does Paul regard women in the church? Very highly. You can easily find examples of that. So it would be a bit confusing if he was tearing down women somewhere else.

In the scriptures you provided, he's speaking in the context of teaching, correct? He's saying that women are not to teach men in a congregational setting.
Yes, that is what he is writing about. He forbids women to have authority over men and he wants them to be silent in church. Why? I listen to women in positions of authority quite often and they make as much sense as men. I've heard women teaching Christian theology and they do it as well as men. So why take Paul's advice and refuse to have women teach or exercise authority?

I personally will not go to a church with a woman as a pastor. Not because I think women are inferior; they are not. But because that's what the Bible teaches.

That does not mean I can't read writings and learn something from women I think women add much value to a church in the biblical context.

I don't know if you're a Christian, but seems like you're simply taking small batches of verses to try and discredit the Bible by ignoring the context of those verses.
 
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wonderkins

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Yes, that is what he is writing about. He forbids women to have authority over men and he wants them to be silent in church. Why? I listen to women in positions of authority quite often and they make as much sense as men. I've heard women teaching Christian theology and they do it as well as men. So why take Paul's advice and refuse to have women teach or exercise authority?
With that mentality why take anything Paul says? How do you decide which parts of the Bible to accept? Do we get to edit it when we find something we struggle with?
 
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Blade

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"Does the bible teach shunning of friends and family whenever they change their mind about any belief taught in your church?" <---this is hard.. the verse you gave and then what you 1st said. belief.. Christ didn't rise.. or.. I can get drunk.. I can sleep with my friends wife/husband.. then YES you can should stay away from that person.

Now.. say the Church you go to does not believe in GIFTS.. you go to a Church that does or FLIP THIS.. if that's the kind of BELIEFS your talking about then NO they should not treat you any different.. unless I have misunderstood then forgive me
 
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GingerBeer

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With that mentality why take anything Paul says? How do you decide which parts of the Bible to accept? Do we get to edit it when we find something we struggle with?
You're right, why take anything that is written as if it were smarter and better and more "true" than your own best judgement. I am not suggesting that Paul was a windbag who ought to be ignored but why follow him rather than your own best judgement? People like to say that because Paul wrote his pastoral letters under inspiration that what is in them is therefore God's own teaching. I am more inclined to say that what Paul wrote is inspired by God and it is useful yet it is not to be unquestioningly followed as if it were a new version of the ten commandments to bind the consciences of Christians on pain of hell for disobedience. If it were read like that then what difference is there between the new covenant and the old except for content? The spirit would be the same and Christians would be as bound by the written code as were the Jews under the old covenant yet Paul himself says we're not bound by the written code and that we are set free, as Jesus said, to serve the living God out of conscience and the guidance of the Spirit of God.
So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, Abba! Father! The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (Romans 8:12-17)​
There is a maturity under the new covenant that was not present under the old. Christians are called to live by the Spirit of Christ Jesus and not to live by the old law (or even a new law that works in the same way as the old with demands and threats and absolute obedience the only way of holiness).
About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. (Hebrews 5:11-14)​
 
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Christopher0121

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We know that Paul writes about how women shouldn't teach or usurp authority over a man.

But that leaves me with a few questions.

When Paul writes about women keeping silent in the church gatherings (which were in homes at that time), is he saying that they shouldn't speak at all? Is he saying that they shouldn't use the time for catching up and gossiping? Is he talking about their interrupting with unlearned questions they should be discussing at home with their husbands? Is he writing about women teaching?

Exactly, to what is Paul referring?

Oh, and another question...

What if a woman is permitted to teach within gatherings... while under the authority of the elders? To reject her teaching or sharing would be to reject the authority of the elders. However, she's still under male authority. She's simply being permitted to share any insights and understandings she might have.

Things that make you go "Hmmm". ;)
 
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kiwimac

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Does the bible teach shunning of friends and family whenever they change their mind about any belief taught in your church?

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Purge the evil person from among you. (I Corinthians 5:9-13)

Some use the above passage as justification for shunning.

Jesus, shunned no one.
 
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Gideons300

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I would class it as that.
I suspect God would as well. And yet, we have become compromised by the world's view to the point that if these were shunned, our entire structure would be threatened.

it is time we as His church admitted we need a fresh vision of Him and how HE can deliver us from evil.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Gideons300

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That is right, not even Judas Iscariot.
Agreed. BUT, He had not yet fulfilled His purpose. He created a bridge forcus to cross over back to the Father.

To those who refuse to depart from evil, He will return, but not to hang with the sinners. He will come to tell them to depart from Him eternally. We who are His now are to walk in righteousness, not willfully sin and then abuse His precious blood by asking forgiveness.

Blessings,


Gideon
 
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