What is the most important thing to do?
- Thread starter Kees Hogenbirk
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Okay, so the bible says that a God hating atheist can't follow the commandments?
Well I've been on Google for 10 minutes and I found this guy. He is an atheist (I don't know whether or not he particularly 'hates' God) who follows 9 out of the 10 commandments (only sabbath one excluded). This is his explanation of how he follows the 10 commandments:
You shall have no other gods before Me. We don’t have any, so yes.
You shall not make idols. We don’t.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. We don’t take it at all really.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. I suppose this is broken. The gamers need support on Saturday too. Yes, the Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday, if you weren’t aware.
Honor your father and your mother. I guess so. Aside from occasional jokes anyway.
You shall not murder. Haven’t yet at least.
You shall not commit adultery. Hard to commit adultery while single.
You shall not steal. I buy music CDs. Kind of a hardcore no.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. I haven’t said anything I thought was untrue since I was 8. I can’t remember stuff before that. Been wrong many times, but not dishonest. If not for the right to remain silent I’d have been killed already.
You shall not covet. I just buy stuff I want rather than sitting creepily going ‘I want that’. Since I want very few things, I haven’t had trouble yet.
If this guy would literally change his work schedule ONE SINGLE DAY he would have the 10 commandments complete. As I think you would agree with me on the fact that he is physically able to do this without divine intervention, would you say that this man 'loves God' as soon as he completes the 10th commandment?
And look, if you want me to stop asking about this then tell me and I'll stop asking. But I just want to know what is required to love God. And I simply can't believe that following God's rules is all it takes because it is so plainly obvious that every single human being, believer or not is able to fullfil the 10 commandments. And if you still think that it is literally impossible for a God hating atheist to follow the 10 relatively easy to follow commandments and you won't give me any logical explanation as to why this is impossible, but only bible quotes that I don't understand, then I will stop this conversation right now because then there is no way I am ever going to understand why you think the way you think.
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com7fy8
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The Bible says, "Therefore submit to God." in James 4:7. And Philippians 2:13 says,
"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
So, through these I get that God wants us to submit to Him Himself . . . therefore personally . . . and not only by doing things I understand He wants. And in me He has me be the way He wants me to be submissive. And He works this. I do not work this. Because He is working in my will. So, I am waiting on howsoever God in my will initiates at every moment what He has me willing and doing.
This process includes how God changes our nature to be submissive with Him in His love.
"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)
He makes us gentle and quiet in His love's incorruptible beauty gentle and quiet; so we are loving Him by seeking Him to correct us into this nature which is so precious to Him. And then we do what He has us doing in His love which is all-loving. We become creative with Him in all-loving love.
So, we are loving God by sharing with Him in His creativity of His love.
And so, our pleasing God is loving Him, by how we are gentle and quiet in His love. And this is being like Jesus who is so pleasing to God. So, this is loving our Father.
And we are in all-loving love so we are loving people the way God wants, and creates
So, by loving God, like this, we become loving of our neighbor also.
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aiki
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Well, what does it mean to love God? Some want to assert that obedience is essentially what it means to love God. There seems to be some ground in Scripture for this thinking. But a careful consideration of Scripture reveals that such obedience arises from a love for God and is not that love itself.
John 14:15
15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
What is love for God, then? What is it that gives rise to joyful, faithful obedience to God? Is it emotional sentimentalism? Is the one who is loving God best the one who is does the most weeping in a worship service, who is most overcome emotionally with feelings of joy and affection for God? No. Love for God is not mere strong emotion, though it may give rise to such emotion at times. Love for God is a deep heart's desire for Him, a desire to know Him, to walk with Him in intimate fellowship. Paul explains:
Philippians 1:21-23
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Philippians 3:7-10
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Can such a desire come from me? Absolutely not. It must come - and can only come - from the Holy Spirit:
Romans 5:5
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Galatians 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love...
If I recognize that I don't really love God and want this to change (which wanting is always only from God) the only way this will change is if the Holy Spirit works in my heart the only love God desires from me which is His own holy, self-sacrificing, faithful love. And the only way the Spirit does this is as I ask him to and, in patient submission to him, wait on him to do so.
One more thing: To act in obedience to God apart from a love for Him, the apostle Paul says is a spiritually useless act:
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
It is a kind of hypocrisy to be obedient to God without a deep heart's desire for Him. Not surprisingly, God rejects such obedience (see Matthew 7:21-23).
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