What are some examples of losing salvation?

JohnB445 said:

Do we lose it like we lose a set of car keys? Does someone just tip their hat to God and decide they don't want eternal life anymore?

I'm not sure how this works.

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17)

"Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,"

"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!"

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?"

And yes I understand Faith doesn't mean say a prayer or agree. Faith is something that is alive. And part of that faith is believing that Jesus is the Lord, so if you believe he is your Lord then you will do what he says. I don't see how those 2 are separated.

"But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

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Matthew 18 -- forgiveness revoked.
Romans 11: "19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."

Heb 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

ToServe said:

Salvation is determinant upon the regenerative spiritual state of the subject of the Cross post-mortem, for Christ will judge the living and the post-mortem subjects.

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To you, at what point does this Regenerative process actually take place?

BobRyan said:

Matthew 18 -- forgiveness revoked.

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That is sort of a nebulous statement, could you be more specific?

JIMINZ said:

That is sort of a nebulous statement, could you be more specific?

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Matt 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

JIMINZ said:

That is just a ridiculous statement to make.

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Why is it ridiculous? I quoted what Scripture reads in Rev 14. You know what it states. Based on that do you think that you will lose your salvation if you accept the mark of the beast? Yes or No?

JIMINZ said:

If a person has been promised that he would receive his Salvation when he dies physically and goes to Heaven, hasn't he in essence RECEIVED his Salvation?

If the physical body cannot be changed until physical death, the Spiritual body is all that is missing.

The Salvation has therefore already been attained for us by Christ.

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Why do you describe salvation as if it is only a past-time event? You probably know that the scriptures describe salvation in past, present and future terms which is a PROCESS. I can freely give my child a car for use while he attends college but I can stipulate he must maintain good grades in order to keep it. One can receive salvation but keeping it is contingent upon believing (Jn 3:16) and obeying (Heb 5:9).

Oldmantook said:

The example of the thief is a unique situation. He died hanging on the cross - so his time of persevering was quite short. That would be like someone coming to genuine faith on their death bed. However, someone who has a longer life span left after coming to faith has plenty of time to walk away - if they so choose.

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Yes I think it is the act of pereservering that indicates a saved life. You obv have backsliding and the question of salvation for those whom died during this state. But yeah, the act of persevering is the thing that indicates being Gods house. Hebrews 3: 5-6
“Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,” bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future.
6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

JIMINZ said:

To you, at what point does this Regenerative process actually take place?

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After receiving the knowledge of the truth and walking the narrow path of faith by offering onto God your body as a living sacrifice. It starts, but it only is complete post mortem after one sheds their blood, meaning to die in Christ.

Hebrews 12:10
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

JacksBratt said:

Are you telling me that I lose my salvation.. regain it.... lose it..... regain it.... lose it.....regain it....... in a continual ping pong match of salvation and lost soul? Seriously?

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And you really believe that's the only way it can go? What about the guy who gets saved, is good, sins but repents and tries to walk the walk? Not some guy who was "never saved to begin with" but was hanging right in there doing a great job of it. Then Satan begins to tempt him, he decides to drop the whole thing and live in consistent sin, denies Jesus, no longer repents after sinning, and says I've decided God doesn't even exist?

Why don't you ever present that very real scenario? I'll tell you why, because you are using deception...something that appears to make the idea of lost salvation seem stupid, while ignoring the scenario that makes it look very real. IOW, what you said there is what they all say, while none of you ever present a proper, very real scenario because that would not work for your purpose of thwarting the truth while you push a non truth. Very common tactics for false teachers, teaching false doctrine.

JacksBratt said:

I challenge anyone here to state that they are a Christian........and live without sin.

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You point? Or is your point not so effective now once we get things into proper perspective?

JacksBratt said:

We all live with sin in our lives.. It is impossible to not live that way. Christian or not.

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So?

It is possible to try not to sin, to repent when we do, and not live in sin and only do it out of temptation/never plan on it, or make it an expected part of our lives as the heathen do. Why this consistent "we all sin" as a defense? Is that supposed to make sinning all we want somehow ok? See, like that and other like comments designed to deceive, their only an excuse if one wants an excuse, for the rest of us, we don't make the same connection as the OSASrs do when we hear them.

Where is the line drawn? We know perfectly well only God knows that for certian, but I can tell you, for myself, I have a pretty good idea of where when I'm falling or have fallen away. It's actually quite simple but only if one chooses to see it. My earthly dad says to be good, and I get out there and go way beyond what I know is being good, I mean I just know I have, no mystery at all. Now when he gets home, I find myself in big trouble, and I knew that ahead of time.

JIMINZ said:

The Testator spoken of in these verses is Jesus not us.

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Jesus is the mediator. We are the witnesses if his Gospel.

JIMINZ said:

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

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They points to those who have the testimony of Jesus as witneses of his Gospel. The "they" is an antecedent to the verse that follow.

JIMINZ said:

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

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The a testament is owing to the "they" who are bearing witness of Jesus their mediator of the Blood Covenant. The witness who carries the testimony of Jesus carries their cross to their graves.

JIMINZ said:

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

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The one holding the testimony of Jesus must therefore die as the "they" antecedent in the verse below -

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance

The "they" are the witnesses, the testators who are called and who MIGHT receive their eternal inheritance.

Obviously, Jesus is not the "they", Jesus is not the one called, that he MIGHT receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

So Hebrews 9:15-17 is related to the "they" who are those Testators who hold the testimony of Jesus.

Kenny'sID said:

And you really believe that's the only way it can go? What about the guy who gets saved, is good, sins but repents and tries to walk the walk? Not some guy who was "never saved to begin with" but was hanging right in there doing a great job of it. Then Satan begins to tempt him, he decides to drop the whole thing and live in consistent sin, denies Jesus, no longer repents after sinning, and says I've decided God doesn't even exist?

Why don't you ever present that very real scenario? I'll tell you why, because you are using deception...something that appears to make the idea of lost salvation seem stupid, while ignoring the scenario that makes it look very real. IOW, what you said there is what they all say, while none of you ever present a proper, very real scenario because that would not work for your purpose of thwarting the truth while you push a non truth. Very common tactics for false teachers, teaching false doctrine.



You point? Or is your point not so effective now once we get things into proper perspective?



So?

It is possible to try not to sin, to repent when we do, and not live in sin and only do it out of temptation/never plane on it, or make it an expected part of our lives as the heathen do. Why this consistent "we all sin" as a defense? Is that supposed to make sinning all we want somehow ok? See, like that and other like comments designed to deceive, their only an excuse if one wants an excuse, for the rest of us, we don't make the same connection as the OSASrs do when we hear them.

Where is the line drawn? You know perfectly well only God knows that, but I can tell you, for myself, I have a pretty good idea of where when I'm falling or have fallen away. It's actually quite simple but only if one chooses to see it. My earthly dad says to be good, and I get out there and go way beyond what I know is being good, I mean I just know I have, no mystery at all. Now when he gets home, I find myself in big trouble.

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Paul puts it best.
“We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

JohnB445 said:

Those are good verses.

But what are some examples of it happening? and how does it happen? How do they know once they broke the seal?

Thats the big question.

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Rom 8:13 refers to the practice/lifestyle of sin or "living according to the flesh." Christians who choose to live according to the flesh instead of living according to the Spirit face spiritual death according to the Apostle Paul. Consequently they are no longer sealed.

JohnB445 said:

Those are good verses.

But what are some examples of it happening? and how does it happen? How do they know once they broke the seal?

Thats the big question.

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Matthew 7 points out that there is no "guarantee" that the wicked know their true condition. The whole point of the lost condition is self deception.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


But we DO have the promise that the saved CAN know that they are saved.

Romans 8:13-16
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

Faith Unites said:

Paul puts it best.
“We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

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Then you are saying Paul condones sinning all we like, with no discretion/or bothering not to try at all not to, and using the "because we sin some" clause as a defense? And that if we do that, we're still saved?

Kenny'sID said:

Then you are saying Paul condones sinning all we like, with no discretion/or bothering not to try at all not to, and using the "because we sin some" clause as a defense? And that if we do that, we're still saved?

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That’s not what that verse says at all. He saying that sin is a real living thing that our bodies can not shed. There is a big difference between sinning and living in sin. The further you are in sanctification the more obvious sin and it’s impact is in your life.

Faith Unites said:

That’s not what that verse says at all. He saying that sin is a real living thing that our bodies can not shed. There is a big difference between sinning and living in sin. The further you are in sanctification the more obvious sin and it’s impact is in your life.

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But I knew that. It was impossible to tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me or exactly what you were saying.

SkyWriting said:

God exists outside of time, so timing is never an issue for God and your salvation.

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Yes I agree. There are two ways to view eternal security. In one aspect eternal security is absolutely true. Those who are written in the book of life will receive salvation without a doubt. But we don’t know who is written in the book of life. The names written in the book of life are those who are victorious over the world and endure to the end. But someone could be on the path to salvation and turn away from God before receiving it by not abiding or enduring to the end. These people are not written in the book of life and won’t receive salvation. It doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t believe it just means they didn’t abide or endure. No one receives salvation until they either die, the rapture or judgement day comes.

BNR32FAN said:

Yes I agree. There are two ways to view eternal security. In one aspect eternal security is absolutely true. Those who are written in the book of life will receive salvation without a doubt. But we don’t know who is written in the book of life. The names written in the book of life are those who are victorious over the world and endure to the end. But someone could be on the path to salvation and turn away from God before receiving it by not abiding or enduring to the end. These people are not written in the book of life and won’t receive salvation. It doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t believe it just means they didn’t abide or endure. No one receives salvation until they either die, the rapture or judgement day comes.

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I'm not sure:
Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

ToServe said:

Jesus is the mediator. We are the witnesses if his Gospel.



They points to those who have the testimony of Jesus as witneses of his Gospel. The "they" is an antecedent to the verse that follow.



The a testament is owing to the "they" who are bearing witness of Jesus their mediator of the Blood Covenant. The witness who carries the testimony of Jesus carries their cross to their graves.



The one holding the testimony of Jesus must therefore die as the "they" antecedent in the verse below -

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance

The "they" are the witnesses, the testators who are called and who MIGHT receive their eternal inheritance.

Obviously, Jesus is not the "they", Jesus is not the one called, that he MIGHT receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

So Hebrews 9:15-17 is related to the "they" who are those Testators who hold the testimony of Jesus.

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I have already said "We Are Dead In Christ" therefore your precious Postmortem has been fulfilled, even though we have not died Physically.