What do you think?

Righttruth · Nov 3, 2018

Genuine theology on New Covenant and gospel compared to two sides of the same coin:

Life based on faith and fruit; belief based on grace and truth; worship based on spirit and truth.

Counterfeit: a coin with only one side-- Life based on faith only; belief based on grace only and worship based on spirit only!

bcbsr · Nov 3, 2018

Righttruth said:
Genuine theology on New Covenant and gospel compared to two sides of the same coin:

Life based on faith and fruit; belief based on grace and truth; worship based on spirit and truth.

Counterfeit: a coin with only one side-- Life based on faith only; belief based on grace only and worship based on spirit only!

Is fruit a base or an effect of faith?

Rescued One · Nov 3, 2018

bcbsr said:
Is fruit a base or an effect of faith?

Great post! Fruit is the result of genuine faith. Our faith comes from the Spirit of God if it's genuine!

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Luke 6
43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

It is God working in us!

SkyWriting · Nov 3, 2018

Righttruth said:
Genuine theology on New Covenant and gospel compared to two sides of the same coin:

Life based on faith and fruit; belief based on grace and truth; worship based on spirit and truth.

Counterfeit: a coin with only one side-- Life based on faith only; belief based on grace only and worship based on spirit only!

That's still three sides. Unless you are counting an edge.

Righttruth · Nov 4, 2018

bcbsr said:
Is fruit a base or an effect of faith?

Fruit is the result and product of our faithfulness

Righttruth · Nov 4, 2018

SkyWriting said:
That's still three sides. Unless you are counting an edge.

Yes, that is a third dimension--an edge of small size. That may represent our transformation from faith to faithfulness of yielding fruit.

bcbsr · Nov 4, 2018

Righttruth said:
Fruit is the result and product of our faithfulness

Gal 3:11,12 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

I think I'll opt for living by faith. That opposed to living by law where one's lift is contingent upon doing things.

Righttruth · Nov 4, 2018

bcbsr said:
Gal 3:11,12 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

I think I'll opt for living by faith. That opposed to living by law where one's lift is contingent upon doing things.

Notice that just shall live by faith. Not all irresponsible people who prefer faith only!

bcbsr · Nov 4, 2018

Righttruth said:
Notice that just shall live by faith. Not all irresponsible people who prefer faith only!

Rom 4:4-6 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works

Righttruth · Nov 4, 2018

bcbsr said:
Rom 4:4-6 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works

We are concerned with the fruit, not works

bcbsr · Nov 4, 2018

Righttruth said:
We are concerned with the fruit, not works

So you're saying that faith doesn't produce works as a fruit.

Righttruth · Nov 4, 2018

bcbsr said:
So you're saying that faith doesn't produce works as a fruit.

Precisely, faith should be followed by faithfulness from our side.

Rescued One · Nov 4, 2018

Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience*; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
*perseverance

1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

F A I T H

Rescued One · Nov 4, 2018

Perseverance of the Saints does not mean “once saved always saved”. This corruption of the doctrine has been popular in recent years, but has never been a true representation of the of the teaching of the Bible. “Once saved always saved” is more likely called “Perseverance of the sinner” instead of “the saint”. For it teaches that man can be saved by Christ and then sin habitually, doing whatever he wants, and still “persevere to the end”. Perseverance of the saints does not teach this.

Perseverance of the saints teaches that once God has renewed the heart of a sinner through the application of the redemption wrought by Christ upon the cross, he will continue to be saved and show forth the fruits of that salvation. The sinner perseveres because of Christ, but he continually shows himself as one who has been changed by Christ. God has saved the individual and will sanctify him until the end when he is ultimately glorified, and in heaven. It does not mean man has a license to sin. Those who think they have a license to sin are not changed and saved by grace. They are still in sin. Those who are saved by grace and changed, desire to show forth the fruits of that salvation. God motions the heart to good work, and continues that good work to the end...
Perseverance of the Saints – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon | A Puritan's Mind

Righttruth · Nov 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience*; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
*perseverance

1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

F A I T H

We are not robots that can be keyed to salvation. How many claim to be born of God exhibit the fruit of the Spirit?

Righttruth · Nov 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Perseverance of the Saints does not mean “once saved always saved”. This corruption of the doctrine has been popular in recent years, but has never been a true representation of the of the teaching of the Bible. “Once saved always saved” is more likely called “Perseverance of the sinner” instead of “the saint”. For it teaches that man can be saved by Christ and then sin habitually, doing whatever he wants, and still “persevere to the end”. Perseverance of the saints does not teach this.

I also don't believe OSAS. Just because we receive Christ in our lives doesn't mean we have become saints. The life will be perseverance of a sinner as you put it. Only disciples can be saints.

Perseverance of the saints teaches that once God has renewed the heart of a sinner through the application of the redemption wrought by Christ upon the cross, he will continue to be saved and show forth the fruits of that salvation.

No. One may walk out of His grace anytime. That is why only those who endure till the end will be saved.

The sinner perseveres because of Christ, but he continually shows himself as one who has been changed by Christ.

Yes, sinner should continue to persevere with transformed life.

God has saved the individual and will sanctify him until the end when he is ultimately glorified, and in heaven. It does not mean man has a license to sin. Those who think they have a license to sin are not changed and saved by grace. They are still in sin. Those who are saved by grace and changed, desire to show forth the fruits of that salvation. God motions the heart to good work, and continues that good work to the end...
Perseverance of the Saints – compiled by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon | A Puritan's Mind

God will help a soul that yields to His work, not otherwise. Sanctification is not automatic without our will to submit for that.

Rescued One · Nov 5, 2018

Righttruth said:
We are not robots that can be keyed to salvation. How many claim to be born of God exhibit the fruit of the Spirit?

The word robots isn't in my Bible. The verses I posted are. And claiming you're a doctor, a mechanic, or a Christian doesn't make you one.

Rescued One · Nov 5, 2018

Righttruth said:
I also don't believe OSAS. Just because we receive Christ in our lives doesn't mean we have become saints. The life will be perseverance of a sinner as you put it. Only disciples can be saints.

No! OSAS is not true.

The truly born again person has been born again by GOD, not himself.

Righttruth said:
No. One may walk out of His grace anytime. That is why only those who endure till the end will be saved.

The only way to endure is to have been purchased by the blood of Christ and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. The ones who endure belong to Christ and the endurance has been given to that person whose heart has been changed by GOD (not of ourselves).

Righttruth said:
Yes, sinner should continue to persevere with transformed life.

The Christian will persevere. The sinner won't.

Righttruth said:
God will help a soul that yields to His work, not otherwise. Sanctification is not automatic without our will to submit for that.

A Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the Strong.

"O Hercules, help me in this my hour of distress," quoth he.

But Hercules appeared to him, and said:

"Tut, man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel."

Moral of Aesops Fable: The gods help them that help themselves

A person's sinful nature is changed when God changes it. A Christian's will is to please God.

Psalm 51
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

2 Corinthians 3
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

In humble adoration for all God has given me...

Righttruth · Nov 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
The word robots isn't in my Bible. The verses I posted are. And claiming you're a doctor, a mechanic, or a Christian doesn't make you one.

It is not there, your inference draws that kind of a concept!

Righttruth · Nov 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
No! OSAS is not true.

The truly born again person has been born again by GOD, not himself.

The result is seen by the fruit of the Spirit.

The only way to endure is to have been purchased by the blood of Christ and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. The ones who endure belong to Christ and the endurance has been given to that person whose heart has been changed by GOD (not of ourselves).

Endurance is our responsibility; otherwise, it passing the buck to God!

The Christian will persevere. The sinner won't.

That is what I also mean.

Moral of Aesops Fable: The gods help them that help themselves A person's sinful nature is changed when God changes it. A Christian's will is to please God.

Click to expand...

Right.

What do you think?

Regular Member

Newbie

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

The Librarian

Regular Member

Regular Member

Newbie

Regular Member

Newbie

Regular Member

Newbie

Regular Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Regular Member

Regular Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Regular Member

Regular Member

Similar threads