I don't get why Noah cursed Canaan?

Southernscotty said:

I just put it up to what people would say. I read it before posting it and curious if anyone would even respond. I am glad you did. I felt like he dove a little deep too. Um like scuba diving deep.
I have studied this before and still have a headache from it, It is one of those "issues" that we can take or not take. I decided to take it literally and that is my standpoint.

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Der Alter said:

יהוה When I learned Hebrew 3+ decades ago I learned the pronunciation as Yod Heh Waw Heh. For the correct pronunciation here is what the Encyclopedia Judaica says.

YHWH
The personal name of the God of Israel is written in the Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH and is referred to as the "Tetragrammaton." At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. this name was regularly pronounced with its proper vowels, as is clear from the *Lachish Letters, written shortly before that date. But at least by the third century B.C.E. the pronunciation of the name YHWH was avoided, and Adonai, "the Lord," was substituted for it, as evidenced by the use of the Greek word Kyrios, "Lord," for YHWH in the Septuagint, the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures that was begun by Greek-speaking Jews in that century. Where the combined form ʾAdonai YHWH occurs in the Bible, this was read as ʾAdonai ʾElohim, "Lord God." In the early Middle Ages, when the consonantal text of the Bible was supplied with vowel points to facilitate its correct traditional reading, the vowel points for ʾAdonai with one variation – a sheva with the initial yod of YHWH instead of the ḥataf-pataḥ under the aleph of ʾAdonai – were used for YHWH, thus producing the form YeHoWaH. When Christian scholars of Europe first began to study Hebrew, they did not understand what this really meant, and they introduced the hybrid name "Jehovah." In order to avoid pronouncing even the sacred name ʾAdonaifor YHWH, the custom was later introduced of saying simply in Hebrew ha-Shem (or Aramaic Shemā ʾ, "the Name") even in such an expression as "Blessed be he that cometh in the name of YHWH" (Ps. 118:26). The avoidance of pronouncing the name YHWH is generally ascribed to a sense of reverence. More precisely, it was caused by a misunderstanding of the Third Commandment (Ex. 20:7; Deut. 5:11) as meaning "Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy God in vain," whereas it really means either "You shall not swear falsely by the name of YHWH your God" (JPS) or more likely, "Do not speak the name of YHWH your god, to that which is false," i.e., do not identify YHWH with any other god.
The true pronunciation of the name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced "Yahweh." This is confirmed, at least for the vowel of the first syllable of the name, by the shorter form Yah, which is sometimes used in poetry (e.g., Ex. 15:2) and the -yahu or -yah that serves as the final syllable in very many Hebrew names. In the opinion of many scholars, YHWH is a verbal form of the root hwh, which is an older variant of the root hyh "to be." The vowel of the first syllable shows that the verb is used in the form of a future-present causative hiph ʾil, and must therefore mean "He causes to be, He brings into existence." The explanation of the name as given in Exodus 3:14, Eheyeh-Asher-Eheyeh, "I-Am-Who-I-Am," offers a folk etymology, common in biblical explanation of names, rather than a strictly scientific one. Like many other Hebrew names in the Bible, the name Yahweh is no doubt a shortened form of what was originally a longer name. It has been suggested that the original, full form of the name was something like Yahweh-Asher-Yihweh, "He brings into existence whatever exists" or Yahweh Ẓevaʾot (I Sam. 1:3, 11), which really means "He brings the hosts [of heaven – or of Israel?] into existence." "The Lord of Hosts," the traditional translation of the latter name, is doubtful.
According to the documentary hypothesis, the literary sources in the Pentateuch known as the Elohist and the Priestly Document never use the name Yahweh for God until it is revealed to Moses (Ex. 3:13; 6:2–3); but the Yahwist source uses it from Genesis 2:4 on and puts the name in Eve's declaration, "I along with Yahweh have made a man," thus implying that it was known to the first human generation (Gen. 4:1; cf. 4:26). The apparent purpose of Exodus 6:2–3 is to glorify Moses at the expense of the patriarchal traditions.
http://go.galegroup.com/ps/retrieve...Segment=9780028660974&docId=GALE|CX2587507449​

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JohnC2 said:

I was more confused after reading this than when I started.

In general - I am very leery of rewriting the scriptures so that they seem more straightforward and palatable to my sensibilities. That’s along the lines of mixing leaven into 3 measures or meal...

The reality of life is that it is messy. Things don’t go to plan.... Stuff doesn’t make sense and you are often left scratching your head.... But that’s often a give away of real life - the nasty reality that all the options are bad... Hero’s aren’t heroic.... and nothing is resolved cleanly in the end.

Compare this to a fable.... Where everything is neatly constructed to build and create a specific narrative which illustrates a clear and unambiguous message.... But the scriptures aren’t fable.... They aren’t carefully constructed object lessons...

And so we are left with our hero Noah - a preacher of righteousness who saved humanity... Drunk and dejected after the destruction of the entire world he loves.. Something happens and he pronounces a curse on his grandson (who seemingly is completely uninvolved).... and the curse sticks. God honors it... Huh? And that’s that.

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Dave-W said:

If you are talking about the earthly name of Our Lord, the ONLY original would be the Hebrew/Aramaic Yeshua. (which means salvation)

Everything else is either translation or transliteration.

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oldrunner said:

Nice!

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sdowney717 said:

God did not honor Noah's curse, God cursed Canaan as a future telling of prophetic foreknowledge and simply spoke as prophesy through Noah what was going to happen to each one.

“But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes … then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you” (Deut. 28:15).

- Deuteronomy 28:15-68

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Emil Racovita said:

Sure, that is Hebrew ? Yes Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his descendants till entered in slavery spoke Hebrew, because Abraham was a Hebrew from Hebrew people. After the descendants of Jacob (Israel) entered in slavery was permitted to them to speak Hebrew or was forced to speak and write the language of their master(s) ? What is your answer ? My last name is "Racovita" what in it are four Hebrew words, and was formed in 950 AD. Correct English is ROCOVINE and has four English words. Because you know Hebrew what are the words ? 2000 years ago my ancestor Jacob was two years younger than Lord Christ (who was called Jesus) and grew up in same town Nazareth. Then, what Hebrew do you know ? Did you ever read to understand from Matthew 21:33-43 ? NOT AT ALL.

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Dave-W said:

There isn't one.

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1watchman said:

Most Bible teachers show that Yahweh and Yeshua are Hebrew or Chaldean, for Jehovah and Jesus in the Greek ---which is the source for the NT references. Since we are not Israelites, but Gentiles in this New Testament (re: Jesus, the Christ), we ought to speak in the language we have (i.e. English derived from the Greek). Many professing Christians do not seem to realize that Christ is the fulfillment of the OT, and Israel's history is a fore-shadowing (type) of the hope of the world to come as in Christ. Let us live today and not in the past, while appreciating the history as God shows us.

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oldrunner said:

Calm down Brother! It's all good.

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Der Alter said:

יהוה When I learned Hebrew 3+ decades ago I learned the pronunciation as Yod Heh Waw Heh. For the correct pronunciation here is what the Encyclopedia Judaica says.

YHWH
The personal name of the God of Israel is written in the Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH and is referred to as the "Tetragrammaton." At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. this name was regularly pronounced with its proper vowels, as is clear from the *Lachish Letters, written shortly before that date. But at least by the third century B.C.E. the pronunciation of the name YHWH was avoided, and Adonai, "the Lord," was substituted for it, as evidenced by the use of the Greek word Kyrios, "Lord," for YHWH in the Septuagint, the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures that was begun by Greek-speaking Jews in that century. Where the combined form ʾAdonai YHWH occurs in the Bible, this was read as ʾAdonai ʾElohim, "Lord God." In the early Middle Ages, when the consonantal text of the Bible was supplied with vowel points to facilitate its correct traditional reading, the vowel points for ʾAdonai with one variation – a sheva with the initial yod of YHWH instead of the ḥataf-pataḥ under the aleph of ʾAdonai – were used for YHWH, thus producing the form YeHoWaH. When Christian scholars of Europe first began to study Hebrew, they did not understand what this really meant, and they introduced the hybrid name "Jehovah." In order to avoid pronouncing even the sacred name ʾAdonaifor YHWH, the custom was later introduced of saying simply in Hebrew ha-Shem (or Aramaic Shemā ʾ, "the Name") even in such an expression as "Blessed be he that cometh in the name of YHWH" (Ps. 118:26). The avoidance of pronouncing the name YHWH is generally ascribed to a sense of reverence. More precisely, it was caused by a misunderstanding of the Third Commandment (Ex. 20:7; Deut. 5:11) as meaning "Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy God in vain," whereas it really means either "You shall not swear falsely by the name of YHWH your God" (JPS) or more likely, "Do not speak the name of YHWH your god, to that which is false," i.e., do not identify YHWH with any other god.
The true pronunciation of the name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced "Yahweh." This is confirmed, at least for the vowel of the first syllable of the name, by the shorter form Yah, which is sometimes used in poetry (e.g., Ex. 15:2) and the -yahu or -yah that serves as the final syllable in very many Hebrew names. In the opinion of many scholars, YHWH is a verbal form of the root hwh, which is an older variant of the root hyh "to be." The vowel of the first syllable shows that the verb is used in the form of a future-present causative hiph ʾil, and must therefore mean "He causes to be, He brings into existence." The explanation of the name as given in Exodus 3:14, Eheyeh-Asher-Eheyeh, "I-Am-Who-I-Am," offers a folk etymology, common in biblical explanation of names, rather than a strictly scientific one. Like many other Hebrew names in the Bible, the name Yahweh is no doubt a shortened form of what was originally a longer name. It has been suggested that the original, full form of the name was something like Yahweh-Asher-Yihweh, "He brings into existence whatever exists" or Yahweh Ẓevaʾot (I Sam. 1:3, 11), which really means "He brings the hosts [of heaven – or of Israel?] into existence." "The Lord of Hosts," the traditional translation of the latter name, is doubtful.
According to the documentary hypothesis, the literary sources in the Pentateuch known as the Elohist and the Priestly Document never use the name Yahweh for God until it is revealed to Moses (Ex. 3:13; 6:2–3); but the Yahwist source uses it from Genesis 2:4 on and puts the name in Eve's declaration, "I along with Yahweh have made a man," thus implying that it was known to the first human generation (Gen. 4:1; cf. 4:26). The apparent purpose of Exodus 6:2–3 is to glorify Moses at the expense of the patriarchal traditions.
http://go.galegroup.com/ps/retrieve...Segment=9780028660974&docId=GALE|CX2587507449​

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1watchman said:

Most Bible teachers show that Yahweh and Yeshua are Hebrew or Chaldean, for Jehovah and Jesus in the Greek ---which is the source for the NT references. Since we are not Israelites, but Gentiles in this New Testament (re: Jesus, the Christ), we ought to speak in the language we have (i.e. English derived from the Greek). Many professing Christians do not seem to realize that Christ is the fulfillment of the OT, and Israel's history is a fore-shadowing (type) of the hope of the world to come as in Christ. Let us live today and not in the past, while appreciating the history as God shows us.

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RaymondG said:

Joshua

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Emil Racovita said:

Because you studied Hebrew , that mean you know it. My last name is RACOVITA, what in it are four Hebrew words. Correct English is ROCOVINE and are four English words. Remember the word RACOVITA was formed in 950 AD. What are those words ?

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1watchman said:

, for Jehovah and Jesus in the Greek

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Der Alter said:

What is your point? I didn't present myself as an expert. I was responding to a post about the correct pronunciation of יהוה/YHWH the divine tetragrammaton. My response came from a Jewish source, not me.

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Der Alter said:

When I learned Hebrew 3+ decades ago I learned the pronunciation as Yod Heh Waw Heh. For the correct pronunciation here is what the Encyclopedia Judaica says

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Emil Racovita said:

The English is a dialect of German language.

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Emil Racovita said:

The English that you speak today is the same like was spoken in 1600s ?

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