The Gospel of John should be the last book of the Old Testament

Kevin Snow

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And what for you does it mean "to love" another Christian, or even an enemy?
I have explained it to you already. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you wish to become my disciple?

What are you not understanding about the love of God is meant to bring you into eternal life? And how are you to live sustainably so long through having sin in your life? If we become tolerant and complacent towards sin then we do not understand the character of the love of God for it is not separate from his righteousness but it is righteous.

And what does it say of us in regards to this? That,

Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. ~Ecclesiastes 8:11

It is because you are slow to do what is right that reproves you. But God has one who is swift to do righteousness:

then a throne will be established in steadfast love, and on it will sit in faithfulness in the tent of David one who judges and seeks justice and is swift to do righteousness.” ~Isaiah 16:5

I am only teaching you to be prepared through righteousness to love the people of God and give them their food at the proper time.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I have explained it to you already. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you wish to become my disciple?

What are you not understanding about the love of God is meant to bring you into eternal life? And how are you to live sustainably so long through having sin in your life? If we become tolerant and complacent towards sin then we do not understand the character of the love of God for it is not separate from his righteousness but it is righteous.

And what does it say of us in regards to this? That,

Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. ~Ecclesiastes 8:11

It is because you are slow to do what is right that reproves you. But God has one who is swift to do righteousness:

then a throne will be established in steadfast love, and on it will sit in faithfulness in the tent of David one who judges and seeks justice and is swift to do righteousness.” ~Isaiah 16:5

I am only teaching you to be prepared through righteousness to love the people of God and give them their food at the proper time.

So, I take it that you think you have no sin in your life at the present moment. Would this be a fair assessment?
 
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Kevin Snow

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So, I take it that you think you have no sin in your life at the present moment. Would this be a fair assessment?
This is pretty erroneous of a conclusion. What makes you think that I think I have no sin in my life, simply because I tell you the whole counsel of God?
 
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RaymondG

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Where in the New Testament is the essence of "verbal stones" explicated and taught?
I did not say they were physical or verbal.....was just making a statement. We will only see in scripture what we are ready, willing and able to see.....
 
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2PhiloVoid

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This is pretty erroneous of a conclusion. What makes you think that I think I have no sin in my life, simply because I tell you the whole counsel of God?
Because it seems that you're a bit on the assumptive side of things, at least at times. You seem to assume that most of the rest of us have more or less no Christian sense, and I've also noticed that you have a difficult time in expressing yourself in a way that demonstrates forbearance as an expressions of faith.

Sure, I can understand that some of the things that fellow Christians say might be a little off, and I can even understand how one might become occasionally perturbed at some other things that people say, or even with a fellow Christian who uses Ghost Rider as a temporary avatar from time to time. But, this insistence that you seem to express that you see everything so clearly and that no one else but you sees anything in Christ as clearly as you do seems to go over the top. So, you might want to reconsider some aspects of your understanding of our commonly shared faith in Christ as you attempt to go along and interact with everyone here.

:cool:
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I did not say they were physical or verbal.....was just making a statement. We will only see in scripture what we are ready, willing and able to see.....

Ok. I can go with that.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Because it seems that you're a bit on the assumptive side of things, at least at times. You seem to assume that most of the rest of us have more or less no Christian sense, and I've also noticed that you have a difficult time in expressing yourself in a way that demonstrates forbearance as an expressions of faith.

Sure, I can understand that some of the things that fellow Christians say might be a little off, and I can even understand how one might become occasionally perturbed at some other things that people say, or even with a fellow Christian who uses Ghost Rider as a temporary avatar from time to time. But, this insistence that you seem to express that you see everything so clearly and that no one else but you sees anything in Christ as clearly as you do seems to go over the top. So, you might want to reconsider some aspects of your understanding of our commonly shared faith in Christ as you attempt to go along and interact with everyone here.

:cool:
I never said these things. I never said I see all things more clearly than everyone else. You are not judging me according to the standard of Christ. You are judging me according to your own standard. As it is, I already showed you that "by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned" But when I have done nothing wrong you accuse me.
 
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RaymondG

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So why didn't Jesus stone the woman in John 8?

Don't you want to be like Jesus Christ?
He didnt see the sin........To the pure all things are pure. The ones with the stone where able to see the sin.....because they had the sin in them as well......this is why I mentioned "if I still see sin in others afterwards." in my post.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I never said these things. I never said I see all things more clearly than everyone else. You are not judging me according to the standard of Christ. You are judging me according to your own standard. As it is, I already showed you that "by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned" But when I have done nothing wrong you accuse me.

Uh...yes, you did "show" me the verses in Matthew 12:36-37. But, you do realize the full context in which these verses were used and to whom they were being said, right? I mean, there is a context that bounds the meaning of this text you've cited from Matthew; you're not free to just cull out a verse or two and hold it aloft in everyone's face as some kind of supreme shibboleth.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Uh...yes, you did "show" me the verses in Matthew 12:36-37. But, you do realize the full context in which these verses were used and to whom they were being said, right? I mean, there is a context that bounds the meaning of this text you've cited from Matthew; you're not free to just cull out a verse or two and hold it aloft in everyone's face as some kind of supreme shibboleth.
Do not preach”—thus they preach— “one should not preach of such things; disgrace will not overtake us.” ~Micah 2:6

This is what you just did. You said I can't use the word of God because of context. But where is your explanation of this context that I so "clearly" missed?

I did not take this word out of context at all. You are wrong. But it is the principle of the word of God that we are to understand and this is the purpose I have used and pointed you to scripture. You haven't used any scripture so far in our discussion but have used everything entirely from your own mind! But I am grounded in the training of the Lord that comes through meditating on his word. Therefore I KNOW scripture and use it where as appropriate. You want to tell me how to do my job? Start doing it yourself!
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Do not preach”—thus they preach— “one should not preach of such things; disgrace will not overtake us.” ~Micah 2:6

This is what you just did. You said I can't use the word of God because of context. But where is your explanation of this context that I so "clearly" missed?
Well, the first thing you should have noticed is that the passage in which Matthew 12:36-37 is placed is in the one where Jesus specifically confronts those Pharisees WHO HAVE BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT. Thus, Jesus responds to them, and a part of that response is seen in Matthew 12:36-37. So, when you apply these verses to me, I see an insinuation that you think I'm at least simulating some of the mindset of the more hardened Pharisees; and it would be a bit over the top to "warn" me of how every word I say will be held against me if I, as a fellow Christian, haven't actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

I did not take this word out of context at all. You are wrong. But it is the principle of the word of God that we are to understand and this is the purpose I have used and pointed you to scripture. You haven't used any scripture so far in our discussion but have used everything entirely from your own mind! But I am grounded in the training of the Lord that comes through meditating on his word. Therefore I KNOW scripture and use it where as appropriate. You want to tell me how to do my job? Start doing it yourself!
Ok. I just did above. And you might want to cool your jets, brother Kevin.
 
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Doug Melven

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He didnt see the sin........To the pure all things are pure. The ones with the stone where able to see the sin.....because they had the sin in them as well......this is why I mentioned "if I still see sin in others afterwards." in my post.
In Exodus when someone was caught in adultery or breaking the Sabbath the whole congregation was to stone them. That had to include people who did not witness the act.

Also when we see a brother sinning we are to restore such a one, not throw stones, verbal, physical or spiritual.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Well, the first thing you should have noticed is that the passage in which Matthew 12:36-37 is placed is in the one where Jesus specifically confronts those Pharisees WHO HAVE BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT. Thus, Jesus responds to them, and a part of that response is seen in Matthew 12:36-37. So, when you apply these verses to me, I see an insinuation that you think I'm at least simulating some of the mindset of the more hardened Pharisees; and it would be a bit over the top to "warn" me of how every word I say will be held against me if I, as a fellow Christian, haven't actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Ok. I just did above. And you might want to cool your jets, brother Kevin.
You don't even read the word itself but just respond out of the emotions evoked within you. I understand this is how it made you feel. But this is not right of you. For it says:

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, ~Matthew 12:36

Apparently for the sake of your pride and feelings you fail to understand what stares you in the face. When it says "people" this contradicts what you are saying that it refers to only the Pharisees. And when it says "every CARELESS word" this contradicts what you are saying about it referring to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

So you are wrong in your understanding of the word on both accounts and it simply is on the basis of reading the word right in front of you.

I'm sorry but there is a time to speak and a time to be silent. You need to know when to quit. You need to humble yourself or you will get put down. And not by me. God himself will rebuke you if you remain in your pride.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You don't even read the word itself but just respond out of the emotions evoked within you. I understand this is how it made you feel. But this is not right of you. For it says:

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, ~Matthew 12:36

Apparently for the sake of your pride and feelings you fail to understand what stares you in the face. When it says "people" this contradicts what you are saying that it refers to only the Pharisees. And when it says "every CARELESS word" this contradicts what you are saying about it referring to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

So you are wrong in your understanding of the word on both accounts and it simply is on the basis of reading the word right in front of you.

I'm sorry but there is a time to speak and a time to be silent. You need to know when to quit. You need to humble yourself or you will get put down. And not by me. God himself will rebuke you if you remain in your pride.
Actually, I do read the Word, Kevin. However, I can see that your enthusiasm is getting the better of you, so I'll just say that I do agree with part of what you're saying in that Matthew 12:36-37 applies also includes lesser sinful speech than 'just' blaspheme. So, what again was it I said that was sinful and that you thought needed to be pruned?
 
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Kevin Snow

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Actually, I do read the Word, Kevin. However, I can see that your enthusiasm is getting the better of you, so I'll just say that I do agree with part of what you're saying in that Matthew 12:36-37 applies also includes lesser sinful speech than 'just' blaspheme. So, what again was it I said that was sinful and that you thought needed to be pruned?
Go your way. It has all been said already. We all must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
 
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Anderseric

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The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17
The law written on stones was a ministry of death and condemnation. 2 Corinthians 3
God found fault with the Old Covenant so He made a New Covenant. Hebrews 8:7-8

God found the fault with the OC was man's inability to keep it perfectly. So He made a NC through Jesus Christ where the only requirement was that we believe. John 3:16

Doug: about Hebrews 8:7-8, consider that the word "covenant" is in italics in verse 7 and "them" is also in italics in verse 8 (at least in the NKJV). Is it possible the author said "high priest" in verse 7 since he just finished a long discussion about High Priests and sacrifices? That would help us understand "them" in verse 8. Was the author talking about all past covenants (plural) or just the Mosaic covenant. Or, consider that the author meant high priests instead when talking about them.

Just a thought.
 
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RaymondG

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In Exodus when someone was caught in adultery or breaking the Sabbath the whole congregation was to stone them. That had to include people who did not witness the act.

Also when we see a brother sinning we are to restore such a one, not throw stones, verbal, physical or spiritual.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The commandments have not change....we just understand them better. The letter killeth, the spirit maketh alive. The letter stone and cause death, the spirit restores and brings to life. Good thing One came to show us the true Way.
 
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Doug Melven

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Doug: about Hebrews 8:7-8, consider that the word "covenant" is in italics in verse 7 and "them" is also in italics in verse 8 (at least in the NKJV). Is it possible the author said "high priest" in verse 7 since he just finished a long discussion about High Priests and sacrifices? That would help us understand "them" in verse 8. Was the author talking about all past covenants (plural) or just the Mosaic covenant. Or, consider that the author meant high priests instead when talking about them.

Just a thought.
Whether it was mankind or the high priests really doesn't change anything.
God found fault with the Old Covenant.
Now we have a new Priesthood founded on better promises.
And because there is a change of priesthood there is of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

The commandments have not change....we just understand them better. The letter killeth, the spirit maketh alive. The letter stone and cause death, the spirit restores and brings to life. Good thing One came to show us the true Way.
To attempt to follow the law that was written on stone is to live under condemnation. Romans 8:1-3
 
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RaymondG

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To attempt to follow the law that was written on stone is to live under condemnation. Romans 8:1-3
The letter killeth, but the spirit maketh alive. Jesus came that you might have life. Why get entangled again in the yoke of bondage?

You follow the spirit now, not the letter.....the thing is we have to discover the spirit in the letter. This cannot be done through mans wisdom....as the carnal mind cannot understand the things of the spirit. If any man lack wisdom....let him study more....nay, let him ask of Me and I will give it freely.

Until then, we can only look at the letters and say we cant possibly follow them.
 
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NeedyFollower

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Or at least the Gospels should be separated from the OT and the NT as a transitional section of the Bible.

I suggest this because we confuse the life of Christ and his public ministry as the beginning of the New Testament, or better understood, New Covenant. Jesus was the last Old Testament prophet. He said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Everything he said and did was under the Mosaic Covenant. Paul tells us in the book of Romans that the Law was spiritual, and what Jesus explained to the Jews under the Law was the spirit of the Law, as opposed to the letter of the Law. This is what he meant when he told the Jews that if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery.

Paul tells us in Romans, by metaphor regarding Christ and the law, as long as a woman's husband remains alive, if she divorced she commits adultery when remarried. But if the husband dies, she is free to remarry another without committing adultery. So Christ died and the husband of the law died with him so the Jews were free to remarry the new law of grace (Romans 7:1-6).

The New Covenant begins with Christ's death and resurrection. The book of Acts is the beginning of the New Testament, not the Gospels, although because the story of his death and resurrection are in the Gospels, that means the Gospels occur in both Testaments, which is why the Gospel should be considered transitional books that overlap between Old and New Testaments.

Of course, no Bible will be printed this way. I post this only to remind everyone that in the Gospels, before his crucifixion, Jesus lived and spoke under the Mosaic Covenant as the last Old Testament prophet. Of course, no Jewish Bible (TANAK) will ever include the Gospels, either.

What do you think?
It just occurred to me that elsewhere it says ( and I am paraphrasing ) that a testament ( as in a last will and testament ) is not in effect until the death of the person leaving the inheritance so what you are saying makes sense .
 
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