LDS The Mormon History That I've Basically Ignored

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I've always been more interested in doctrine than Joseph Smith's history, but last evening I decided to take a look at some history:


"3 I was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont. … My father, Joseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—
...
"5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
"6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions."
Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph's family moved to Manchester when he was about fourteen; two years later he was sixteen. 1805 plus sixteen equals about 1821. The local newspapers, The Palmyra Reflector and Wayne Sentinel recorded that the revivals occurred in 1824.

How many different versions did Joseph Smith give of his "First Vision?"

"Was this a real, physical event? Or was this a vision in the same sense that Lehi saw a vision of the tree of life, in a dream?[3] The first written version of the account by Joseph was not given until 12 years after it supposedly took place. When he first penned the account, Joseph only mentioned one person visiting him, which is no small detail to be mistaken about.[4] There are now known at least nine different accounts[5]relating the First Vision with varying degrees of changes and circumstances. If this vision was so important, why are there discrepancies?
"As far as the dissemination of Joseph's vision, there is scant evidence that it was referenced in any published material in the 1830's and it was left out of the first publication of the Church's history written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. It was also left out of the Book of Commandments (published in 1833, it was the precursor to the Doctrine & Covenants) and the general Church membership did not receive information about the First Vision until the 1840's and even then, the story did not hold the prominent place in Mormon thought that it does today.[6] For an event of such import, why wasn't it more widely known? And if Joseph's telling of the event was the cause of such persecution to himself, why doesn't the historical record bear this out?"
Joseph Smith's First Vision

5 http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-vision
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoseCrystal

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,968
2,353
USA
✟284,152.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I found the Book of Mormon very compelling when I read it quite a few years ago. But as time went on the Joseph Smith saga seemed less likely to me.

Many LDS are quite happy with everything. As someone on the outside looking in my recommendation is to find a Christian Church where you feel at home and like the pastor. Join it and embrace the congregation.

God bless you and all the best. Write into AAC using the link below if you like.
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Mormon
I found the Book of Mormon very compelling when I read it quite a few years ago. But as time went on the Joseph Smith saga seemed less likely to me.

Many LDS are quite happy with everything. As someone on the outside looking in my recommendation is to find a Christian Church where you feel at home and like the pastor. Join it and embrace the congregation.

God bless you and all the best. Write into AAC using the link below if you like.
I majorly appreciate your fair approach to things here, David. It if my wish too that all people, including those that leave LDS folds, find a home in Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Mormon
I've always been more interested in doctrine than Joseph Smith's history, but last evening I decided to take a look at some history:


"3 I was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont. … My father, Joseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—
...
"5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
"6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions."
Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph's family moved to Manchester when he was about fourteen; two years later he was sixteen. 1805 plus sixteen equals about 1821. The local newspapers, The Palmyra Reflector and Wayne Sentinel recorded that the revivals occurred in 1824.

How many different versions did Joseph Smith give of his "First Vision?"

"Was this a real, physical event? Or was this a vision in the same sense that Lehi saw a vision of the tree of life, in a dream?[3] The first written version of the account by Joseph was not given until 12 years after it supposedly took place. When he first penned the account, Joseph only mentioned one person visiting him, which is no small detail to be mistaken about.[4] There are now known at least nine different accounts[5]relating the First Vision with varying degrees of changes and circumstances. If this vision was so important, why are there discrepancies?
"As far as the dissemination of Joseph's vision, there is scant evidence that it was referenced in any published material in the 1830's and it was left out of the first publication of the Church's history written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. It was also left out of the Book of Commandments (published in 1833, it was the precursor to the Doctrine & Covenants) and the general Church membership did not receive information about the First Vision until the 1840's and even then, the story did not hold the prominent place in Mormon thought that it does today.[6] For an event of such import, why wasn't it more widely known? And if Joseph's telling of the event was the cause of such persecution to himself, why doesn't the historical record bear this out?"
Joseph Smith's First Vision

5 http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-vision
By "ignored" you mean publicly out there and talked about?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
I've always been more interested in doctrine than Joseph Smith's history, but last evening I decided to take a look at some history:


"3 I was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont. … My father, Joseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—
...
"5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
"6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions."
Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph's family moved to Manchester when he was about fourteen; two years later he was sixteen. 1805 plus sixteen equals about 1821. The local newspapers, The Palmyra Reflector and Wayne Sentinel recorded that the revivals occurred in 1824.

How many different versions did Joseph Smith give of his "First Vision?"

"Was this a real, physical event? Or was this a vision in the same sense that Lehi saw a vision of the tree of life, in a dream?[3] The first written version of the account by Joseph was not given until 12 years after it supposedly took place. When he first penned the account, Joseph only mentioned one person visiting him, which is no small detail to be mistaken about.[4] There are now known at least nine different accounts[5]relating the First Vision with varying degrees of changes and circumstances. If this vision was so important, why are there discrepancies?
"As far as the dissemination of Joseph's vision, there is scant evidence that it was referenced in any published material in the 1830's and it was left out of the first publication of the Church's history written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. It was also left out of the Book of Commandments (published in 1833, it was the precursor to the Doctrine & Covenants) and the general Church membership did not receive information about the First Vision until the 1840's and even then, the story did not hold the prominent place in Mormon thought that it does today.[6] For an event of such import, why wasn't it more widely known? And if Joseph's telling of the event was the cause of such persecution to himself, why doesn't the historical record bear this out?"
Joseph Smith's First Vision

5 http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-vision
It was an important landmark in LDS Church history, but not necessarily in civic affairs. If you check you will find that there was little or nothing written about Jesus Christ while He was alive. The New Testament was written after His death. Other than His disciples very little was written about Jesus until long after His death. The newspapers you listed are not in Manchester.
Historical Jesus - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,919.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"As far as the dissemination of Joseph's vision, there is scant evidence that it was referenced in any published material in the 1830's and it was left out of the first publication of the Church's history written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. It was also left out of the Book of Commandments (published in 1833, it was the precursor to the Doctrine & Covenants) and the general Church membership did not receive information about the First Vision until the 1840's and even then, the story did not hold the prominent place in Mormon thought that it does today.[6] For an event of such import, why wasn't it more widely known? And if Joseph's telling of the event was the cause of such persecution to himself, why doesn't the historical record bear this out?"

I've always thought the above was odd as well. At least 2 lds presidents thought it was an important event:

According to President Joseph F. Smith (1838–1918), “The greatest event that has ever occurred in the world, since the resurrection of the Son of God from the tomb and his ascension on high, was the coming of the Father and of the Son to that boy Joseph Smith.”10

Joseph Smith learned in those minutes [of the First Vision], however long or brief, more about the nature of God than all of the learned divines of all time had ever learned.”

President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008), “Inspirational Thoughts,” Ensign, Aug. 1997, 3.

The First Vision: Key to Truth - ensign
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rescued One
Upvote 0

twin.spin

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
May 1, 2010
797
266
✟72,766.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
I found the Book of Mormon very compelling when I read it quite a few years ago. But as time went on the Joseph Smith saga seemed less likely to me.

Many LDS are quite happy with everything. As someone on the outside looking in my recommendation is to find a Christian Church where you feel at home and like the pastor. Join it and embrace the congregation.

God bless you and all the best. Write into AAC using the link below if you like.
Problem with your recommendations on the outside surface is:
Being happy does not automatically = being Biblically correct.
Feeling at home \ liking the pastor does not automatically = being Biblically correct.
Feeling at home \ liking the pastor does not automatically = join it and embrace the congregation​

All these disregard the two basic related warnings from God:
False teachers: Acts 20:30
The gangrene effect of false teaching: 2Timothy 2:14-18.​
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
By "ignored" you mean publicly out there and talked about?

I ignored it except for the official first vision that became part of the Pearl of Great Price, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre and a few atrocities that took place in Utah. I did not read much about Nauvoo and I've never been there. I have been to the hill Cumorah.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
It was an important landmark in LDS Church history, but not necessarily in civic affairs. If you check you will find that there was little or nothing written about Jesus Christ while He was alive. The New Testament was written after His death. Other than His disciples very little was written about Jesus until long after His death. The newspapers you listed are not in Manchester.
Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

This thread is about Mormon history, not about Jesus Christ. I don't care if the newspapers were not in Manchester. Manchester is only eight miles from Palmyra.

I've always thought the above was odd as well. At least 2 lds presidents thought it was an important event:

According to President Joseph F. Smith (1838–1918), “The greatest event that has ever occurred in the world, since the resurrection of the Son of God from the tomb and his ascension on high, was the coming of the Father and of the Son to that boy Joseph Smith.”10

Joseph Smith learned in those minutes [of the First Vision], however long or brief, more about the nature of God than all of the learned divines of all time had ever learned.”

President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008), “Inspirational Thoughts,” Ensign, Aug. 1997, 3.

The First Vision: Key to Truth - ensign

I've never read that article. The fact is that the Book of Mormon is anti-biblical and anti-non-LDS. I read the entire Book of Mormon when I was a member of the church.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BigDaddy4
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I've always thought the above was odd as well. At least 2 lds presidents thought it was an important event:

According to President Joseph F. Smith (1838–1918), “The greatest event that has ever occurred in the world, since the resurrection of the Son of God from the tomb and his ascension on high, was the coming of the Father and of the Son to that boy Joseph Smith.”10

Joseph Smith learned in those minutes [of the First Vision], however long or brief, more about the nature of God than all of the learned divines of all time had ever learned.”

President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008), “Inspirational Thoughts,” Ensign, Aug. 1997, 3.

The First Vision: Key to Truth - ensign

Joseph Smith claimed that public opinion was against him. Sidney Rigdon converted to Mormonism and traveled to Palmyra. He said that the Smith family's reputation was impeccable until Joseph Smith told people about the Book of Mormon in 1827.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
This thread is about Mormon history, not about Jesus Christ. I don't care if the newspapers were not in Manchester. Manchester is only eight miles from Palmyra.
I was proving that that type of event would not have been that newsworthy to most people because they would not have believed it. Besides he was in a town without a newspaper.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I was proving that that type of event would not have been that newsworthy to most people because they would not have believed it. Besides he was in a town without a newspaper.

Of course, it would have newsworthy. His claim was incredible. Have you ever lived in a small town? Everyone knows everything about everyone else.

So Joseph claimed that the first vision occurred in 1820 and he was told to not join any church. In 1828, he signed up for the Methodist Church membership class.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Agree
Reactions: RoseCrystal
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Of course, it would have newsworthy. His claim was incredible. Have you ever lived in a small town? Everyone knows everything about everyone else.

So Joseph claimed that the first vision occurred in 1820 and he was told to not join any church. In 1828, he up for the Methodist Church membership class.
I did grow up in a small town of about 1,600 people, I also know that Joseph was 14 years old and very few of the people believed him. It did not become newsworthy until later.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I did grow up in a small town of about 1,600 people, I also know that Joseph was 14 years old and very few of the people believed him. It did not become newsworthy until later.

Just because people don't believe a person, doesn't mean they don't tell others what outlandish event that person claims. And many people live in towns with a population of only 600 people.

" I was at this time in my fifteenth year."
Joseph Smith—History 1

21 Some few days after I had this vision, I happened to be in company with one of the Methodist preachers, who was very active in the before mentioned religious excitement; and, conversing with him on the subject of religion, I took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had. I was greatly surprised at his behavior; he treated my communication not only lightly, but with great contempt, saying it was all of the devil, that there were no such things as visions or revelations in these days; that all such things had ceased with the apostles, and that there would never be any more of them.
22 I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects—all united to persecute me.

Joseph Smith—History 1

He said he was persecuted.

"Rigdon read the Book of Mormon, proclaimed its truthfulness, and was baptized into the church. He proceeded to convert hundreds of members of his Ohio congregations. In December 1830, Rigdon traveled to New York, where he met Smith."
Sidney Rigdon - Wikipedia

Mormon Propaganda:
Arriving in Manchester, New York, in December 1830, Sidney and Edward learned that Joseph was living with the Whitmers in Fayette township, twenty miles away. Upon inquiring among the neighbors concerning the Smith family, they found that their reputation had been impeccable until Joseph had made known his discovery of the Book of Mormon. They also noted the “good order and industry” of the family farm. Edward and Sidney found the Prophet at his parents’ place in Waterloo, where Edward asked Joseph Smith to baptize him. Four days later Edward was ordained an elder by Sidney Rigdon, his friend and traveling companion.9
Chapter Seven: The Infant Church Expands


"Joseph claimed that the neighborhood knew about the vision and persecuted him for it. But evidence indicates that his own family did not know about the vision. If Joseph's story had actually occurred and excited persecution, family members did not talk or write about it in memoirs. The question arises from reasonable investigators, 'How could Smith's family be unaware of his vision while neighbors were persecuting him for it'?
"Historical documents indicate that Joseph was persecuted for engaging in a confidence scheme using a magic rock-in-a-hat to reveal where buried treasure lay beneath the earth's surface, and later, in 1827, using that same rock-in-the-hat to locate golden plates buried near his home."
Joseph Smith's First Vision

"In Joseph Smith's first handwritten testimony of the 1820 first vision written in 1832, he states that he already knew all other churches were false before he prayed.

"by searching the scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatized from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"Yet in the 'official' story written years later by a scribe, Smith is quoted as saying (emphasis added):

'I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) and which I should join.'
"Examining the different versions of the first vision story, a pattern of contradictions and evolution, not a pattern of mere elaboration on a single original experience emerges."
Joseph Smith's First Vision
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
You said: Just because people don't believe a person, doesn't mean they don't tell others what outlandish event that person claims. And many people live in towns with a population of only 600 people.

Lets not jump to conclusions. Telling others does not mean that the area (out of town) newspapers would publish it. In 1830 the population of Manchester was 2,811.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Did I argue about whether or not it was published? No.

Did people start persecuting him?

"Joseph claimed that the neighborhood knew about the vision and persecuted him for it. But evidence indicates that his own family did not know about the vision. If Joseph's story had actually occurred and excited persecution, family members did not talk or write about it in memoirs. The question arises from reasonable investigators, 'How could Smith's family be unaware of his vision while neighbors were persecuting him for it'?"
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Did I argue about whether or not it was published? No.

Did people start persecuting him?

"Joseph claimed that the neighborhood knew about the vision and persecuted him for it. But evidence indicates that his own family did not know about the vision. If Joseph's story had actually occurred and excited persecution, family members did not talk or write about it in memoirs. The question arises from reasonable investigators, 'How could Smith's family be unaware of his vision while neighbors were persecuting him for it'?"
Joseph Smith's family was indeed aware of his vision, and they talked about the persecution they received. Here is another account:
"
Thomas H. Taylor, was asked, ""What did the Smiths do that the people abused them so?" He replied:

They did not do anything. Why! these rascals at one time took Joseph Smith and ducked him in the pond that you see over there, just because he preached what he believed and for nothing else. And if Jesus Christ had been there, they would have done the same to him. Now I don't believe like he did; but every man has a right to his religious opinions, and to advocate his views, too; if people don't like it, let them come out and meet him on the stand, and shew his error. Smith was always ready to exchange views with the best men they had. [Why didn't they like Smith?, asked the interviewer.]

To tell the truth, there was something about him they could not understand; someway he knew more than they did, and it made them mad. [6]

The raw notes for the Taylor interview likewise mention Joseph Smith being "ducked in the creek in Manchester" despite the fact that the Smiths "did nothing" and "nothing has been sustained [a]gainst [Joseph] Smith". [7] From: Joseph Smith's First Vision/Persecution after the vision - FairMormon
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
So we read different conflicting accounts of supposed history and choose the account that is favorable to what we believe. This explains why I prefer to compare Mormonism to the Bible. Mormons say you must pray for your answer. I prayed and received the answer they didn't want me to receive.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I majorly appreciate your fair approach to things here, David. It if my wish too that all people, including those that leave LDS folds, find a home in Christ.

Mormonism teaches that no one can find a home in Christ outside your church. So, although your words sound kind, they don't reflect Mormonism according to it's scriptures.

Mormonism teaches that if you reject church leaders, you reject Christ.

The Lord taught that those who receive His servants receive Him (see D&C 84:36). Receiving the Lord’s servants means following those who hold the keys of the priesthood, beginning with the prophets and apostles and including other priesthood leaders such as stake presidents, bishops, and quorum presidents. If we receive the Lord and His servants, we also receive Heavenly Father, and He will bestow all that He has upon us (see D&C 93:26–28). Because receiving the Lord’s servants and the priesthood keys that they hold is a necessary step to receiving all that Heavenly Father has, Satan will try to undermine our faith in those priesthood keys and those who hold them. President Henry B. Eyring of the First Presidency cautioned: “Satan will always work on the Saints of God to undermine their faith in priesthood keys. One way he does it is to point out the humanity of those who hold them. He can in that way weaken our testimony and so cut us loose from the line of keys by which the Lord ties us to Him and can take us and our families home to Him and to our Heavenly Father” (“Faith and Keys,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2004, 28).
Chapter 31: Doctrine and Covenants 84
 
Upvote 0