Matt.23:8-11 -- Why Do We Call A Catholic Priest "Father"?

☦Marius☦ said:

I could go on and on. Would it matter to you?

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I'm sure you could. The internet and computers are a marvelous thing.

No - it would not matter. Save your work for those who place the traditions of men over the scriptures.

Marvin Knox said:

I'm sure you could. The internet and computers are a marvelous thing.

No - it would not matter. Save your work for those who place the traditions of men over the scriptures.

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2 Thess 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

☦Marius☦ said:

I've always found you fair.

I understand that sometimes it sounds like I'm arguing for the papacy, when I am not in fact.

At least you are respectful and don't resort to just calling us idolators or blasphemers when you don't have anything else to say.

You don't understand how tiring it is on these forums trying to explain an opinion to people who have often already written you off because of some preconceived bigoted view.

I never realized the existence of the prejudice until I converted from Baptist to Orthodox. Then suddenly I was one of those "evil Catholics", despite the fact that the Orthodox have centuries more of grevances they could hold against the latins.

Yet somehow I still find it easier to talk to them then those I once called my own.

I apologize if I ever sound bitter. It's just frustrating being surrounded 100% in my life who see me as unsaved for my beliefs.

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I don’t think you’ve sounded bitter, and I have appreciated your input, even though we don’t agree on everything. I always appreciate a civil and respectful discussion.

I have absolutely no problem with those who see something more in the Eucharist celebration than I do.

But I do have a problem with those who link it in any way to salvation for the people of God in the most basic sense.

If the Lord informs me on the other side that somehow He transformed physically into bread and wine or the bread and wind transformed physically into Him millions and even billions of times over the last 2000 years - I will simply bow my head and say that His ways are best.

But there is no way that I expect to find that salvation was dependent on partaking of the Eucharist in the way it is intended in many parts of the so called "church" today or at any time in the church era.

If you believe otherwise - all I can say is good luck with your religion and I hope you make the cut when it comes to the narrow way that leads to salvation.

Maybe 'Father and 'Teacher are terms that need to remind us that we ought to be respecting the 'offices' of Father and Rabbi far more than the man who occupies the office.
Every father is a representative of God the Father, and every Rabbi a representative of his Son. When we see the office as strong and necessary and therefore focus our intent upward to God where it needs to be, we can begin to discern the frailties and human weakness of our own fathers, biological or spiritual; and the frailties of our own rabbis from the sacredness of the office, which is of God himself, and of God alone.
By honoring our teacher, and our mother and father, and by placing ourselves in a correct relationship to them according to the divine offices which they occupy in relationship with us; by respecting and seeking answers crucial to our well-being, who we are really honoring is God himself, who has created these offices for our own betterment, and for his own greater glory.
We must however distinguish between the office, which is of God, from the office holder, who will always be imperfect, sometimes mistaken, and all too often even evil.
I am not sure if hyperbole is the best explanation then of what Jesus was teaching us. There was a certain amount of literalness to what he was saying too, but that can only come out when we distinguish the institution of fatherhood from the men who temporarily occupy that office with different degrees of imperfection.

What is happening in our own time, with the constant rants and diatribes against the oppressive patriarchy, is that the office itself has become disrespected. That is what happens when the office becomes synonymous with the men who occupy that office.
This cannot end well.

John, the beloved disciple, stated, in 1 John 2:13 - 1 John 2:14, that he was "writing to you, fathers [Greek pater]".

I like the consensus among christians who call themselves 'teachers': "oh just ignore that, it's ok, my conscience says it's fine"...

What I see is insane-world where people claim to be followers of Christ and members of His Body while setting up state-chartered incorporeal beings named after dead saints... That's called necromancy. Using titles of reverence is ritual magic incorporating divination.

Isaiah60 said:

1- Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Bible Commentary (the 3 volume set is preferable but it comes in a one volume set as well). This is simply the best commentary out there with the most academic leverage.

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Ah, The JFB commentary. It is a classic text that has largely been forgotten. There is an abridged as well as unabridged version. I think that is the difference between the two editions though I am not certain. I have the three volume set I picked up years ago from a used bookstore.

If I may, I would also suggest the Schaff four volume set Commentary set on the NT. Schaff is a Reformed Commentary but also very useful and academic given its vintage. Also Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the OT. This one tends to be a bit technical and a basic knowledge of Hebrew would be preferable but not required.

I have others but I find myself in these two an awful lot (at least recently). I don't know if you are aware but you might want to check out a program called ESword. You can download JFB plus the two I mentioned for free. That way you can read the text of say DRV on one side and the commentary on the other. I would support the developer of ESword but it is not required.

Just my two cents.

I use to be Catholic and raised up Catholic but in my 20's broke away for coming to understand the bible and taking God's word more seriously but understand their still my brother in Christ in the faith.

I use to call prient Anthony Father Anthony and learned in the the bible not to, so toward the end before I switch to a Christian church I was calling him Brother Anthony. Just didn't agree with many things like prayer for the dead, the Blessed Mary, Purgatory, and all the images and statues.

There's a book I came across which help me with understanding a lot toward my walk in that time,
https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Doctrine-Bible-Samuel-Benedict/dp/B00SABJ5RU

Luk 9:50
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

satan has been busy , if they got it wrong in the wilderness imagine what we have done . Jesus was concerned what would happen in the dry wood and Luke 18 would He even find faith...I call no one father except One...

What I am about to ask, it is out of sincerity .I do not want fighting only meaningful discussion . isn't it likely that since the New Testament was originally written in Greek then translated into English, that the translators just used father because its easier then reforming the sentence to make dad or something similar not sound out of place .second I find nowhere the title Holy Father to used as anything but for God yet the pope is called Holy Father. third if you believe that Christ literally said for us to litteraly eat his flesh and drink his blood why would he not be literal on titles you give to people please no anger just level headed discussion

Gregory95 said:

I find nowhere the title Holy Father to used as anything but for God yet the pope is called Holy Father.

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You asked about the use of the term Father. It is indeed used in scripture for people other than God. Father Abraham, for instance. At any rate, when it is used for clergy, the meaning is simply that the pastor has a fatherly role. In fact, its not a lot different from the use of the word pastor, if you think about it. No one seems to mind that usage.

But it was not until Christ says call no man Father that this is know .so all who were before the moment Christ said that didn't know, so it is understandable that OT would use Father. wouldn't it be more appropriate to call them priest then if they are similar but Christ didn't say anything about the title priest. also please address why the pope is called Holy Father when that has only been used for God please thank you for your time

Albion said:

You asked about the use of the term Father. It is indeed used in scripture for people other than God. Father Abraham, for instance. At any rate, when it is used for clergy, the meaning is simply that the pastor has a fatherly role. In fact, its not a lot different from the use of the word pastor, if you think about it. No one seems to mind that usage.

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Some obey Jesus, some do not.

Albion said:

You asked about the use of the term Father. It is indeed used in scripture for people other than God. Father Abraham, for instance. At any rate, when it is used for clergy, the meaning is simply that the pastor has a fatherly role. In fact, its not a lot different from the use of the word pastor, if you think about it. No one seems to mind that usage.

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If 'father' can be used as like 'pastor' (shepherd), then there is no instance (in that particular one usage) that leads to the other usage "Holy Father" (a singular) as if one of our shepherds here is The Shepherd.

Rather all the (sub) sheperds are one and all, equally, under The Shepherd, Christ Jesus.

We already agree on that I think, so the problem here is just the one Christ is pointing to in Matthew 23 -- that we not single out one among us to be our ultimate Leader, because only He alone is -- Matthew 23 NIV.

Isaiah60 said:

...The conclusion here is that its not sinful to call your dad "father" or your parish priests "father" as long as you do not think in extremes and see him on the equal infallible plane as God. Also, the "Father" of a parish should recognize his role as a spiritual leader and not just a title to exalt himself. This is the message Jesus gave to His disciples as a warning to them and those who come after them.

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Even if we agree that Jesus didn’t mean what he said, is there some good reason, why should we call priests “father”?

I personally want to be a disciple of Jesus, that is why I want to remain in his teachings and words. That means, I could call priest brother, but not father.

…and all of you are brothers…
Mat. 23:4-12

Albion said:

You asked about the use of the term Father. It is indeed used in scripture for people other than God. Father Abraham, for instance. At any rate, when it is used for clergy, the meaning is simply that the pastor has a fatherly role. In fact, its not a lot different from the use of the word pastor, if you think about it. No one seems to mind that usage.

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If one was to accept that it's okay to call a priest father based on its been used for Abraham etc etc, then how could giving the pope the title Holy Father be accepted. since the Bible uses the title Holy Father for God not man yet man is using it for man not God?

Gregory95 said:

If one was to accept that it's okay to call a priest father based on its been used for Abraham etc etc, then how could giving the pope the title Holy Father be accepted.

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I am not sure that it can be.

The thread was initially about the use of Father. When the term Holy Father, as used in the Roman Catholic Church for the Pope, was introduced into the discussion, that was something else.

Gregory95 said:

But it was not until Christ says call no man Father that this is know .so all who were before the moment Christ said that didn't know, so it is understandable that OT would use Father. wouldn't it be more appropriate to call them priest then if they are similar but Christ didn't say anything about the title priest. also please address why the pope is called Holy Father when that has only been used for God please thank you for your time

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ICONO'CLAST said:

Some obey Jesus, some do not.

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1213 said:

Even if we agree that Jesus didn’t mean what he said, is there some good reason, why should we call priests “father”?

I personally want to be a disciple of Jesus, that is why I want to remain in his teachings and words. That means, I could call priest brother, but not father.

…and all of you are brothers…
Mat. 23:4-12

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If you read the first three gospels you will see exactly what Christ was referring to when he told the pharisees "call no man father as you have one father who is in heaven". Several times in the New Testament you see Jews using the excuse of "but we have Abraham as our Father" to counter Christ's teachings. It happens at least five or six times before Christ finally brings it up.

Many Jews at that time thought it was Abraham's actions that made them special and saved them as a physical nation, but Christ was telling them that no, God was the true Father of the nation and that no other man should be looked at in the same way as the savior and protegenator of it.

Traditional Christians however do not break this teaching as we do not use the term Father in the manner the Jews did, we use it in the way Paul did later in the New Testament when he calls various others his spiritual Children. If you go back various pages on this post you will see these verses.