What if we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse?

Dave Watchman · May 27, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
So how is health, happiness, longevity, opposed to the Gospel of Jesus?

I'm trying to figure out why you think satisfactory levels of human "health, happiness, and longevity" mean that we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse. What do they have to do with anything? I wonder how you think the Biblical Apocalypse begins? The Apocalypse is a time appointed. This is a predestined appointed time of the end. The Father has fixed a day for it.

"Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Are you a Bible guy at all Steve? A Torah guy? Because if you are using that Pinker dude from the video as your Apocalyptic litmus test, i'm afraid that you've chosen a blind guide. I don't mean to be a downer, but my news here is not good. I'm very sure that we are right on the verge. We are already within the 42 months of Revelation 13.

READER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.

"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

They were buying and selling and planting and building too. They were healthy. They were happy. They were having a gay old time. And you want to talk about longevity? They were living 600, 700 and 900 year lifespans. Think we'll beat that? Only in the age to come.

But they had reached their limit. They had filled up their cup. There is a Divine limit for iniquity. It happens every time. It happened in Noah's day. It happened during the days of Lot. And it happened with the Amorites.

God made Abraham wait until the Amorites had reached their limit before He would let the children of Israel enter into the Promised Land.

"But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. - Genesis 15:16

"In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit." - Genesis 15:16

"After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction." - Genesis 15:16

"The sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit. But after the Amorites DID reach their limit, look out. It was a scorched earth policy. Men, women, children and their animals. But i'm sure they were very happy, prior to their demise.

The Bible tells of a time when the world will reach it's limit once again, just like it did in the days of Noah, like it did in the days of Lot. This is from God's perspective, not ours. God sets the limit, not mankind. Daniel talks about a situation which i don't think is properly understood. The kingdom of the rebels, when they have reached their limit, a stern faced king will arise.

"And at the latter end of their kingdom,
when the transgressors have reached their limit,
a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

Think of it like the "abomination that maketh desolate" is when the "transgressors have reached their limit". Notice again this Divine "limit to transgression", it's the kingdom of the transgressors not the kingdom of the 4 horns anymore. This is not talking about a specific earthly nation or kingdom, but instead is referring symbolically to the prevailing number or group of world wide transgressing individuals.

We are now living at the latter end of the kingdom of the transgressors when they have reached and exceeded their "limit". Is it a particular transgression itself that maketh desolate like the last straw and this causes the "taking away of the daily" by Jesus in Heaven's Temple that starts our Apocalyptic clock? It is. It's the 1290 day litmus test from the Script that can't be beat.

What if we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse?

What if we are?

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015) X<-------1290------->Sun/Moon.

PS,

I was driving to work on Friday listening to a radio preacher. He was telling what they do during partial birth abortions. I had heard of the term "partial birth abortion" before but never really knew what went on. These are late-term abortions, so one would imagine it's not a nice thing to see. When you google the phrase, you can get some pictures of these babies.

In a partial-birth abortion, the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal (vagina), except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb).

The abortionist punctures the base of the skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors or a pointed hollow metal tube called a trochar. He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby.

We can avoid looking at it. We can turn a blind eye. Do you think the Lord can? I bet He has a list of every single one of the many millions that this has been done to. I don't know how those doctors can drive home after their work day.

I'm reminded of the Lord's response in Jeremiah 7 when the people of Israel were sacrificing their children to deities.

"And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.

I can just hear the Lord's voice, "such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!

It never even entered my mind that they would think of such a thing.

Steve Petersen · May 27, 2018

Dave Watchman said:
I'm trying to figure out why you think satisfactory levels of human "health, happiness, and longevity" mean that we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse. What do they have to do with anything? I wonder how you think the Biblical Apocalypse begins? The Apocalypse is a time appointed. This is a predestined appointed time of the end. The Father has fixed a day for it.

"Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Are you a Bible guy at all Steve? A Torah guy? Because if you are using that Pinker dude from the video as your Apocalyptic litmus test, i'm afraid that you've chosen a blind guide. I don't mean to be a downer, but my news here is not good. I'm very sure that we are right on the verge. We are already within the 42 months of Revelation 13.

READER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.

"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

They were buying and selling and planting and building too. They were healthy. They were happy. They were having a gay old time. And you want to talk about longevity? They were living 600, 700 and 900 year lifespans. Think we'll beat that? Only in the age to come.

But they had reached their limit. They had filled up their cup. There is a Divine limit for iniquity. It happens every time. It happened in Noah's day. It happened during the days of Lot. And it happened with the Amorites.

God made Abraham wait until the Amorites had reached their limit before He would let the children of Israel enter into the Promised Land.

"But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. - Genesis 15:16

"In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit." - Genesis 15:16

"After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction." - Genesis 15:16

"The sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit. But after the Amorites DID reach their limit, look out. It was a scorched earth policy. Men, women, children and their animals. But i'm sure they were very happy, prior to their demise.

The Bible tells of a time when the world will reach it's limit once again, just like it did in the days of Noah, like it did in the days of Lot. This is from God's perspective, not ours. God sets the limit, not mankind. Daniel talks about a situation which i don't think is properly understood. The kingdom of the rebels, when they have reached their limit, a stern faced king will arise.

"And at the latter end of their kingdom,
when the transgressors have reached their limit,
a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

Think of it like the "abomination that maketh desolate" is when the "transgressors have reached their limit". Notice again this Divine "limit to transgression", it's the kingdom of the transgressors not the kingdom of the 4 horns anymore. This is not talking about a specific earthly nation or kingdom, but instead is referring symbolically to the prevailing number or group of world wide transgressing individuals.

We are now living at the latter end of the kingdom of the transgressors when they have reached and exceeded their "limit". Is it a particular transgression itself that maketh desolate like the last straw and this causes the "taking away of the daily" by Jesus in Heaven's Temple that starts our Apocalyptic clock? It is. It's the 1290 day litmus test from the Script that can't be beat.

What if we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse?

What if we are?

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015) X<-------1290------->Sun/Moon.

PS,

I was driving to work on Friday listening to a radio preacher. He was telling what they do during partial birth abortions. I had heard of the term "partial birth abortion" before but never really knew what went on. These are late-term abortions, so one would imagine it's not a nice thing to see. When you google the phrase, you can get some pictures of these babies.

In a partial-birth abortion, the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal (vagina), except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb).

The abortionist punctures the base of the skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors or a pointed hollow metal tube called a trochar. He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby.

We can avoid looking at it. We can turn a blind eye. Do you think the Lord can? I bet He has a list of every single one of the many millions that this has been done to. I don't know how those doctors can drive home after their work day.

I'm reminded of the Lord's response in Jeremiah 7 when the people of Israel were sacrificing their children to deities.

"And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.

I can just hear the Lord's voice, "such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!

It never even entered my mind that they would think of such a thing.

Abortion rates in the US have been on the decline for nearly 40 years. That is good news.

sdowney717 · May 27, 2018

Whether the world is better or worse off today depends on your world view.
It is certainly not better spiritually, just as evil as ever was.
If Christian harassment-persecution steps up in the USA while every other parameter you can measure gets a lot better, then it is worse off.

Far, far better to depart and be with Christ.

Dave Watchman · May 27, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
Abortion rates in the US have been on the decline for nearly 40 years. That is good news.

I guess you didn't understand my note up there. That's OK. It's not just abortion. Or the RATE of abortions. It's reaching and then exceeding a limit for all the transgressive behavior. Like they did in the days of Noah. They did it again.

Add up all the abortions and all the murders, get a cumulative count. How many thousands, how many millions of gallons of blood.

God can hear the blood of just one person crying out to Him from the ground.

"And the LORD said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground.

"How much longer shall we wait until our blood is avenged?

How much longer until the many millions of voices reach a crescendo cry from the ground

rjs330 · May 27, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
Abortion rates in the US have been on the decline for nearly 40 years. That is good news.

Yes it is good news. However Ireland may have just legalized abortion. As I said earlier, progress in medicine, better living conditions, less violence in some areas is not an indication of things moving towards or away from the end. It's the move away from God that is the indicator. And by all accounts that is happening .

SolomonVII · May 28, 2018

What if we are?

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015) X<-------1290------->Sun/Moon.

PS,

I am not sure what the meaning of this list of countries and years is.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 28, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
Abortion rates in the US have been on the decline for nearly 40 years. That is good news.

How sick must a person be to say it is good news than only one million babies will be murdered this year, compared to 2 million a few years ago !?

AND meantime, twice as many families will be torn apart by government doings
than a few years ago. !

More and more and more devastation and destruction, by government ,
as well as by corporations ....

That does not look good to anyone who sees it daily.

Inkfingers · May 28, 2018

When you live on your credit card life seems good, until your credit runs out and you end up bankrupt...

Monna · May 28, 2018

SolomonVII said:
But the thing is, there is no evidence at all that it is evangelical Christians that are making the world worse.

Nor did I suggest there is. Nor do I accept that there is one cohesive agglomeration of "evangelical Christians."
But since you raise the issue, what are your criteria for determining a "better" or "worse" world? Who gets to decide how such criteria should be measured, etc.? There are lots of organisations that claim to measure quality of life, but their results are hardly applicable at all scales and locations or applicable beyond than one survey period - hence the need to redo them periodically.

Ronald · May 28, 2018

Jipsah said:
Are they back at the gates of Vienna yet?

Just as they took over Europe in the 17th century, right?

No, do the math, the demographics. They will take over by mere numbers in three decades, if the Lord tarried.
What crud are you referring to, reality? Are you blocking out the evil in the world? As I claimed, if you do that, life is bliss. Ignor the fact that sin in the world is growing and it will knock on your door something and greet you -- Surprise, chop, chop! (see Rev. 20:4)

Steve Petersen · May 28, 2018

Ronald said:
No, do the math, the demographics. They will take over by mere numbers in three decades, if the Lord tarried.
What crud are you referring to, reality? Are you blocking out the evil in the world? As I claimed, if you do that, life is bliss. Ignor the fact that sin in the world is growing and it will knock on your door something and greet you -- Surprise, chop, chop! (see Rev. 20:4)

What sins? Show me the data. Then show me that the increase is historically greater (per capita) than at any other time in human history.

Ronald · May 28, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
What sins? Show me the data. Then show me that the increase is historically greater (per capita) than at any other time in human history.

Are you a Christian? Christians realize that we are all sinners. They recognize evil in the world. They see the sins in their own lives. When we become Christians, the light goes on and we see the world differently. This happens when you are born again from above (John 3:3). This is important, because your whole world view changes. So if you are not a Christian, then I could absolutely understand your lack of awareness of sin in the world. Sin permeates the world all around you. Of course if you are not a Christian or Jew, you may be confused as to what sin is or that with some, evil doesn't even exist and be stuck in a world of relativism, with no absolutes. The fact that you are asking for data about sins in history is a clear sign of the lack of spiritual awareness.
But let me put in terms that you may understand. Governments are formed to serve a purpose. The purpose of governments is to protect the people, their property and rights. When this is violated, (the laws are broken), then justice works to serve and administer punishments/fines/penalties for their wrong doing. Whether you realize it or not, our judicial system was based on Biblical principles of sin. We recognize that certain behaviors/actions are moral and certain behaviors are not, such as: adultery, lying, stealing, murder. Actually in many courtrooms for centuries, the Ten Commandments were posted. These commandments give us an idea of what sin is. They are God's laws. If you break them, that's sin.
So in an extreme case, when you see terrorists moving into your community, raping, pillaging and plundering, murdering, chopping of heads, forcing people out of their homes and stealing or destroying what they have and as a result, tens of thousands die with millions of refugees fleeing for their lives, then you'll know that evil is upon you.
That is sin on a large scale. Of course, we also witness it in our day to day lives, sinning against each other. Are all the sins logged in a data base? Yes, God's data base. He knows every sin you ever committed -- unless you have been washed by the blood of Christ, then He remembers them no more and sees you as a pure spirit, spotless.
But back to sin as it represents lawless behavior, unholy and wrong, we see this in crimes committed throughout history. So, research all crimes committed in history for your answer!
Are we seeing more crime today? Are minor crimes less prevalent per capita? I've heard minor crimes have decreased. Are heinous crimes more prevalent? I've heard these kind of crimes are on the increase. Are people more immoral today than in the last generation? I don't know the answers to all these questions. I just have seen throughout my 62 years, people being more callous to sin then they were when I was a kid. They are more tolerant to people's bad behavior, rebelliousness. The kids I grew up with were spanked when they disobeyed. They were given more responsibilities. Today, that is shunned and so "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is what we see prevalent. It all starts at home. If kids lack respect for people and their property and they are punished or reprimanded for it, then when they are adults, they may likely follow that path. It's a path of careless, rebellious and lawless behavior.
There is a gradual change in society when sin is introduced. It starts with small portions and then people become callous to it, then larger or more severe forms are introduced and decades later, people grow to accept this lawless behavior as normal. And if you see everyone accepting it, you follow along.
Is this what you have done, accepted, tolerated and become callous to immorality to the point at which you cannot recognize it? You have to ask yourself that.

Serving Zion · May 28, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
What sins? Show me the data. Then show me that the increase is historically greater (per capita) than at any other time in human history.

How about this one:

Families then and now: 1980-2010

In 1960, only 4.8% of babies were born outside marriage. This proportion had almost doubled by 1970 (8.3%) and increased to 12.4% in 1980.
Twenty years later (2000), 29.3% of all babies were born outside marriage, increasing to 34.4% (i.e., just over one-third) in 2008.

Eloy Craft · May 29, 2018

There is a peace that the world gives. There is a Peace that Christ gives. The former increases as fear of survival of the body decreases. The latter increases as fear of survival of the soul decreases. Both depend on decreasing the fear of death. As it pertains to the death of the body, there is increasing hope in technology and humanity being able to organize into a body that is self sustaining and perpetual. This is fundamentally the effort to regain what was lost by sin. The end's are similar but profoundly different. The Peace that the world gives finds it's end when it reaches self sustained perpetual life of the body. This end is a means to the end intended for Adam. The Peace of Christ increases as survival of the soul increases. Sin doesn't exist in organic matter but effects organic matter. The soul is like sin in that it effects organic matter but unlike organic matter sin does exist in the soul. Peace of Christ increases as sin that exists in the soul decreases.

The Peace that the world gives is survival of organic matter in which there is no sin. The Peace Christ gives is the survival of the human soul in which there is sin.

On the one hand hope increases as we see things with power to make certain the survival of the body of humanity. Which is good.
On the other hand we lose hope in that those things circumvent the consequences of sin and add certainty to the death of the soul of humanity.

So, in Noah's time, humanity was content in that the survival of the body was certain in complete ignorance of sin and death of the soul. Then judgement by water.

So it is in the end time, humanity, when content that survival of the body is certain in willful ignorance of sin and death of the soul, then judgement by fire.

I don't really know but I think since these short ages exemplified by enlightenment, industry and computers, seem to make the survival of the body more certain rather than the soul, we are on a track to securing for ourselves the peace that the world gives rather than Peace given by Life from above. When sinful humanity is about to succeed in it's effort to eliminate Christ from the world, it will establish in truth that sin has become eternal and life on earth is fit to judge.

SolomonVII · May 29, 2018

Serving Zion said:
How about this one:

Families then and now: 1980-2010

In 1960, only 4.8% of babies were born outside marriage. This proportion had almost doubled by 1970 (8.3%) and increased to 12.4% in 1980.

Twenty years later (2000), 29.3% of all babies were born outside marriage, increasing to 34.4% (i.e., just over one-third) in 2008.

It may be noted that the families of the upper and middle classes that Steve Pinker is from are doing quite fine. It is the families without the resources to sustain the pressures put on them by the sexual revolution that have broken down horrendously.
Welfare, and the strengths of a free economy, have somewhat mitigated the economic costs that show up on graphs of well-being.
The social and personal costs of familial break down makes the materialistic paradise one that is filled with unhappy people.
But with fentanyl and the increasing political pressures for marijuana legalization, there is a pill for that.

Episaw · May 30, 2018

SolomonVII said:
Pro-life Christians have certainly kept the issue alive in North America. Even if we have not won the political or legal battle, Christians, along with science, have won the culture.
Humans occupy a very unique position in the global biome. Moral choice is authentic to us, and us alone. We may either ascend higher than angels, or descend to the depths of monsters and demons like no other animal.
At the beginning of the movement toward abortion as an enlightened progressive idea, the idea being put forth that fetal and fecal material were pretty much synonymous. It was all biological material for us to deal with.
Nobody believes that any more. The monster has been exposed to the light.

What pictures of the blue earth from space had done for the environmental movement, pictures in utero has done for the advocates of life. The miracle of life is simply not comparable to snot.

Well said.

Episaw · May 30, 2018

Jipsah said:
Which translates to "I don't have any." <Laugh>

It translates to whatever you want it to translate into. I am past caring what you think because I am not excited about pseudo-intellectuals.

Episaw · May 30, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
I see. You can make an assertion and not back it up. Must be nice.

Yes, it is very nice. I follow the teaching of scripture to not throw pearls before swine.

GUANO · May 30, 2018

The vast majority of the world's population live in a a literal zombie apocalypse wasteland. See what the average human life deals with in India and China.

Those in the West live in a similar apocalypse though it's more of a spiritual one. Emptyness/desolation of the soul while the body lives in peace and safety.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 1, 2018

GUANO said:
The vast majority of the world's population live in a a literal zombie apocalypse wasteland. See what the average human life deals with in India and China.

Those in the West live in a similar apocalypse though it's more of a spiritual one. Emptyness/desolation of the soul while the body lives in peace and safety.

Guano, I gather that you have never traveled much. I have been to well over 20 countries, most of which were not on vacation, and the vast majority of the world's population do not live in a literal zombie apocalypse wasteland. You would be surprised to learn of the spread of the Gospel, for example, in China. It is probably comforting to think that the rest of the world is living a lot worse than people do where you live but it is very likely to be untrue. Materially the goods are not spread evenly but materialism is not the source of quality of life.

What if we are NOT on the verge of the Apocalypse?

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