Is Anyone Listening? Does Anyone Care?

Old Trapper · May 28, 2018

We hear a lot from the right wing about putting people back to work before they can get "welfare" benefits. In the meantime they seek to increase the numbers of legal immigrants under the H-1B program. Of course, they are now ignoring the ones that have quit looking for work in order to justify more cheap labor.

But, who cares? "Christians"? Not that one can see.

Time to stop talking and start listening

"In one of the Gospels, Jesus said he came for those who are sick, because those who are well did not need a physician. The government continues to make it difficult for people in society to stay well.

Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson wants to raise the rent on those living in public housing, saying it would give them the incentive to do better. Some of those people living in public housing are grandmothers and grandfathers on fixed income that is below the poverty line. Some of the elderly are often dependent on Meals on Wheels to make it through the week.

Meanwhile, Congress is looking at ways for those on Medicaid to work, never mind that some of those people are disabled.

Where is the humanity? Where is the compassion? Where is the help for those who are in need? Even people who are marginalized often will vote against their own interests to hold others down.

Jesus said to Peter three times, “Feed my sheep.” Before that he had said the poor would always be with us. Did Jesus mean that we were to overlook the poor, widows and children? I believe Jesus was leaving a mandate to Peter – and the rest of us – to do all we could for the least of his people. What we do for them, we do for him.

Jesus also said while laying out the mandate, “When I was hungry, you fed me. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. I was sick, and you looked after me. And when I was in jail, you visited me.”

Congress is proposing cuts to programs – such as the farm bill, which will make it difficult for families to put food on their tables; food stamps, which serve millions of people; and CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program) – to pay for the tax cut.

The regulations on anti-segregation laws also have been rolled back. There continues to be an assault on Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security."

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

Old Trapper said:
We hear a lot from the right wing about putting people back to work before they can get "welfare" benefits. In the meantime they seek to increase the numbers of legal immigrants under the H-1B program. Of course, they are now ignoring the ones that have quit looking for work in order to justify more cheap labor.

But, who cares? "Christians"? Not that one can see.

Time to stop talking and start listening

"In one of the Gospels, Jesus said he came for those who are sick, because those who are well did not need a physician. The government continues to make it difficult for people in society to stay well.

Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson wants to raise the rent on those living in public housing, saying it would give them the incentive to do better. Some of those people living in public housing are grandmothers and grandfathers on fixed income that is below the poverty line. Some of the elderly are often dependent on Meals on Wheels to make it through the week.

Meanwhile, Congress is looking at ways for those on Medicaid to work, never mind that some of those people are disabled.

Where is the humanity? Where is the compassion? Where is the help for those who are in need? Even people who are marginalized often will vote against their own interests to hold others down.

Jesus said to Peter three times, “Feed my sheep.” Before that he had said the poor would always be with us. Did Jesus mean that we were to overlook the poor, widows and children? I believe Jesus was leaving a mandate to Peter – and the rest of us – to do all we could for the least of his people. What we do for them, we do for him.

Jesus also said while laying out the mandate, “When I was hungry, you fed me. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. I was sick, and you looked after me. And when I was in jail, you visited me.”

Congress is proposing cuts to programs – such as the farm bill, which will make it difficult for families to put food on their tables; food stamps, which serve millions of people; and CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program) – to pay for the tax cut.

The regulations on anti-segregation laws also have been rolled back. There continues to be an assault on Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security."

personally I have two huge problems with what you seem to be saying....first, I wouldn't trust the medical establishment at this point if you paid me to. In fact, after what they did to me I refuse medical care and my husband is too. They aren't Dr. they are people playing God and it needs to stop, we need to have real Dr. and if that comes when we remove government control then so be it. Enough already of asking the government to fix something that they were largely responsible for breaking in the first place. Free market, that is supply and demand is an amazing way to improve all aspects of our society including but not limited to the medical field.

Second and the most important as it is straight out of scripture...we are the one's that need to help, not ask the government to do it for us and I personally am sick of christians trying to claim that from a scriptural standpoint we need to bring socialism into our country...hog wash...scripture lays all the care of the poor, the widows, the needy on the individual believer not on the society as a government entity and we should do the same. If you see someone in need, step up and meet that need, it will change our world and at the same time it will offer an opportunity to share Christ so that healing is not just of the flesh but of the Spirit as well.

Well that is my two cents and yes, I have been homeless several times and today I cannot work because of how badly the medical establishment messed me up

Handmaid for Jesus · May 28, 2018

And there are Christians who support these actions by congress, until it is them that is affected. This is not the way of love. Love your neighbor as you love yourself is what Lord Jesus taught.I really have a problem with ministries who beg monies for foreign missions but these same people do not want to meet the needs of the poor in the USA. It is said that love begins and is spread abroad.Lord Jesus said that poor will always be with us, but He did not say we will always have the hungry. Some people act as if they will never be in need, never need any type of assistance, and never grow old or infirmed. But when it does happen to them, they want those helping systems to be in place for them.

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
And there are Christians who support these actions by congress, until it is them that is affected. This is not the way of love. Love your neighbor as you love yourself is what Lord Jesus taught.I really have a problem with ministries who beg monies for foreign missions but these same people do not want to meet the needs of the poor in the USA. It is said that love begins and is spread abroad.Lord Jesus said that poor will always be with us, but He did not say we will always have the hungry. Some people act as if they will never be in need, never need any type of assistance, and never grow old or infirmed. But when it does happen to them, they want those helping systems to be in place for them.

I know many poor people, we had a ministry for awhile to the homeless, and very few of them wanted the government to step in, they wanted individuals to step in because it is always the best way to do it. When individuals get involved it gives the person in need their dignity, worth, personal care, value and in addition to all of that, it maximizes the help available rather than most of the moneys going to administration and never reaching the poor in the first place. Think about it for a moment. Suppose you were hungry, the choice is a government who says here is 1/10 (on a good day) of what is available to help you go and be well, or an individual who says here is all I have, it is designed for you to meet your need for a well balanced diet. There is more when you run out but I don't just want you to be fed and well but I want to keep you that way, so I will check in on you in a couple of days to make sure that you still have enough.

Which would you prefer? As I said, we have been there and helped many who were there and the individual attention is way way better every single time...the difference is in trusting that someone will be there to help which is what the church should be making sure people know from the get go...that they matter and care and will be there when help is needed.

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Love your neighbor as you love yourself......

That's the problem.......we don't love ourselves.

This is not simple sarcastic remark but a hard truth that we must address or we are doomed. Loving (phileo) each other as we all circle the drain doesn't cut it. We need to face some hard truths (agapeo) about ourselves. It's all right there......in yer Bible.

Handmaid for Jesus · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
I know many poor people, we had a ministry for awhile to the homeless, and very few of them wanted the government to step in, they wanted individuals to step in because it is always the best way to do it. When individuals get involved it gives the person in need their dignity, worth, personal care, value and in addition to all of that, it maximizes the help available rather than most of the moneys going to administration and never reaching the poor in the first place. Think about it for a moment. Suppose you were hungry, the choice is a government who says here is 1/10 (on a good day) of what is available to help you go and be well, or an individual who says here is all I have, it is designed for you to meet your need for a well balanced diet. There is more when you run out but I don't just want you to be fed and well but I want to keep you that way, so I will check in on you in a couple of days to make sure that you still have enough.

Which would you prefer? As I said, we have been there and helped many who were there and the individual attention is way way better every single time...the difference is in trusting that someone will be there to help which is what the church should be making sure people know from the get go...that they matter and care and will be there when help is needed.

In a perfect world you are right. But in today's greedy and loveless world,there needs be an alternative.I have no problem with the government picking up the slack. This too is the grace of God.

Kevin Snow · May 28, 2018

Behold, a king will reign in righteousness,
and princes will rule in justice.
Each will be like a hiding place from the wind,
a shelter from the storm,
like streams of water in a dry place,
like the shade of a great rock in a weary land.
Then the eyes of those who see will not be closed,
and the ears of those who hear will give attention.
The heart of the hasty will understand and know,
and the tongue of the stammerers will hasten to speak distinctly.
The fool will no more be called noble,
nor the scoundrel said to be honorable.
For the fool speaks folly,
and his heart is busy with iniquity,
to practice ungodliness,
to utter error concerning the Lord,
to leave the craving of the hungry unsatisfied,
and to deprive the thirsty of drink.
As for the scoundrel—his devices are evil;
he plans wicked schemes
to ruin the poor with lying words,
even when the plea of the needy is right.
But he who is noble plans noble things,
and on noble things he stands.
~Isaiah 32:1-8

I take it this is what you are looking for? Yeah me too. It is the problem of our government. We need a righteous king. Then all our problems will get fixed.

When a land transgresses, it has many rulers, but with a man of understanding and knowledge, its stability will long continue. ~Proverbs 28:2

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
I know many poor people, we had a ministry for awhile to the homeless, and very few of them wanted the government to step in, they wanted individuals to step in because it is always the best way to do it. When individuals get involved it gives the person in need their dignity, worth, personal care, value and in addition to all of that, it maximizes the help available rather than most of the moneys going to administration and never reaching the poor in the first place. Think about it for a moment. Suppose you were hungry, the choice is a government who says here is 1/10 (on a good day) of what is available to help you go and be well, or an individual who says here is all I have, it is designed for you to meet your need for a well balanced diet. There is more when you run out but I don't just want you to be fed and well but I want to keep you that way, so I will check in on you in a couple of days to make sure that you still have enough.

Which would you prefer? As I said, we have been there and helped many who were there and the individual attention is way way better every single time...the difference is in trusting that someone will be there to help which is what the church should be making sure people know from the get go...that they matter and care and will be there when help is needed.

Actually government food programs are more reliable than private charities. SNAP for example can provide all that is needed for good nutrition. Recipients just have to make better food choices. Studies reveal that 20 percent of SNAP money is spent on junk foods.

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
In a perfect world you are right. But in today's greedy and loveless world,there needs be an alternative.I have no problem with the government picking up the slack. This too is the grace of God.

do you really believe that in Jesus day there was less greed and lovelessness? And yet Jesus told us to do the work, not the government.

As to Love...please (speaking to everyone here) show me one scripture that tells us to Love (agape) ourselves...see, Biblical Love flows our of humility...that is thinking about ourselves less and others more, agape Love is the opposite of learning to "love yourself" because that is the old man. IOW's human nature is to love ourselves even when it "looks" to the world like loathing. In fact, have you ever taking the time to consider how you love yourself vs. others...for example, do you buy the homeless guy the same sandwich you bought for yourself along with all the fixings? or how about clothes, do you give the poor your outgrown clothes or go buy the same brands you buy yourself? What about transportation? We are told in scripture to Love others as we would Love ourselves yet I have only been on a couple occasions able to witness such Love because it simply doesn't exist even in the Church and shame on the church that it doesn't.

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

Parents and teachers should remind kids to ask themselves this question before they jump into bed with someone;

"Is unplanned kids, unplanned marriage (or abortion, or std's) and other associated problems part of your plan for a successful future?"

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Actually government food programs are more reliable than private charities. SNAP for example can provide all that is needed for good nutrition. Recipients just have to make better food choices. Studies reveal that 20 percent of SNAP money is spent on junk foods.

Have you ever tried to feed a family on food stamps? I have...in order to fill bellies it is sometimes necessary to buy what is called junk food and you try to minimize those foods but hungry kids need something in their bellies...in fact, there have been studies that show that one of the constant problems that the poor in this country face is that junk food is cheaper than good food. So if SNAP is giving you enough to feed 2 people good healthy food and you have 7 people to feed, what do you think you are going to buy?

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
do you really believe that in Jesus day there was less greed and lovelessness? And yet Jesus told us to do the work, not the government.

As to Love...please (speaking to everyone here) show me one scripture that tells us to Love (agape) ourselves...see, Biblical Love flows our of humility...that is thinking about ourselves less and others more, agape Love is the opposite of learning to "love yourself" because that is the old man. IOW's human nature is to love ourselves even when it "looks" to the world like loathing. In fact, have you ever taking the time to consider how you love yourself vs. others...for example, do you buy the homeless guy the same sandwich you bought for yourself along with all the fixings? or how about clothes, do you give the poor your outgrown clothes or go buy the same brands you buy yourself? What about transportation? We are told in scripture to Love others as we would Love ourselves yet I have only been on a couple occasions able to witness such Love because it simply doesn't exist even in the Church and shame on the church that it doesn't.

One can only love others as one love themselves. There is no water in an empty well. Agape is 'head' love, the kind most needed today. Phileo can be feigned, agapeo cannot.

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
Have you ever tried to feed a family on food stamps? I have...in order to fill bellies it is sometimes necessary to buy what is called junk food and you try to minimize those foods but hungry kids need something in their bellies...in fact, there have been studies that show that one of the constant problems that the poor in this country face is that junk food is cheaper than good food. So if SNAP is giving you enough to feed 2 people good healthy food and you have 7 people to feed, what do you think you are going to buy?

Let's find out.
A Quick Guide to SNAP Eligibility and Benefits

SNAP Benefits by Household Size
Household Size Maximum Monthly Benefit,
Fiscal Year 2018 Estimated Average Monthly Benefit, Fiscal Year 2018
1 $192- $134
2 $352- $252
3 $504- $376
4 $640- $456
5 $760- $521
6 $913- $618
7 $1,009- $672
8 $1,153 -$852
Each additional person $144
1 Estimated average benefits are based on FY 2016 SNAP Quality Control Household Characteristics data, the most recent data with this information.

Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, “SNAP Fiscal Year 2018 Cost-of-Living Adjustments,” https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/snap/SNAP_Fiscal_Year_2018_Cost_of_Living_Adjustments.pdf. SNAP benefits in Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, and Virgin Islands are higher than in the other 48 states and DC because income eligibility standards, maximum benefits, and deduction amounts are different in those states and territories.

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
One can only love others as one love themselves. There is no water in an empty well. Agape is 'head' love, the kind most needed today. Phileo can be feigned, agapeo cannot.

I need you to explain what you are saying in relationship to the comment of mine that you quoted...even Christ is said to have poured out Himself....why? Because when we humble ourselves (empty ourselves) God Himself lifts us up...iow's no need to learn to "Love" ourselves.

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Let's find out.

lol what? I just told you I did try it and did look at the numbers...have known many people who tried the same....I have had to feed 7 people on less than 100 per month before, care to try it...of course that was a few years back but stamps keep getting cut so put forth your grocery list if you want to prove me wrong...you have 7 people to feed, 5 growing children and 100 per person per month...what will you buy?

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

A few sights to consider https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/healthy-vs-unhealthy-diet-costs-1-50-more/

I was going to add more but I often get in trouble on these boards for providing too many evidences to my claims.

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
I need you to explain what you are saying in relationship to the comment of mine that you quoted...even Christ is said to have poured out Himself....why? Because when we humble ourselves (empty ourselves) God Himself lifts us up...iow's no need to learn to "Love" ourselves.

Most people don't love themselves, as is evidenced by their many problems. We have to love ourselves fully before we can love others. That means we must like (phileo) ourselves as well as judge (agape) ourselves.

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Let's find out.
A Quick Guide to SNAP Eligibility and Benefits

SNAP Benefits by Household Size
Household Size Maximum Monthly Benefit,
Fiscal Year 2018 Estimated Average Monthly Benefit, Fiscal Year 2018
1 $192- $134
2 $352- $252
3 $504- $376
4 $640- $456
5 $760- $521
6 $913- $618
7 $1,009- $672
8 $1,153 -$852
Each additional person $144
1 Estimated average benefits are based on FY 2016 SNAP Quality Control Household Characteristics data, the most recent data with this information.

Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, “SNAP Fiscal Year 2018 Cost-of-Living Adjustments,” https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/snap/SNAP_Fiscal_Year_2018_Cost_of_Living_Adjustments.pdf. SNAP benefits in Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, and Virgin Islands are higher than in the other 48 states and DC because income eligibility standards, maximum benefits, and deduction amounts are different in those states and territories.

where is the breakdown of what this buys? I told you that years ago I had 100 per month per person here you show exactly what I claims and that was years later

razzelflabben · May 28, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Most people don't love themselves, as is evidenced by their many problems. We have to love ourselves fully before we can love others. That means we must like (phileo) ourselves as well as judge (agape) ourselves.

Then it would seem you do not understand what agape Love is...I've been studying it full time for about 12 years now, would you like me to shed some more light on what you don't get about it?

OldWiseGuy · May 28, 2018

razzelflabben said:
A few sights to consider https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/healthy-vs-unhealthy-diet-costs-1-50-more/

I was going to add more but I often get in trouble on these boards for providing too many evidences to my claims.

A meaningless study as no baseline daily food costs are given. In other words "$1.50 more than what?"

Your link shows a very physically fit, well dressed, likely successful person selecting some of the most expensive fruit available. Bananas are much cheaper (and will ripen as well. Can't say that for some 'green picked' apples).

Is Anyone Listening? Does Anyone Care?

Active Member

Contributor

You can't steal my joy

Contributor

Wake me when it's soup.

You can't steal my joy

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Contributor

Wake me when it's soup.

Contributor

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Contributor

Contributor

Contributor

Wake me when it's soup.

Contributor

Contributor

Wake me when it's soup.

Similar threads