Should we police morality?

Shempster

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I have a friend who says that her pastor insists we all need to "call out" sin in others. He teaches that we are obligated under the scriptures to do so and if we don't then their "blood" in on our hands. What do you think about it?
Im not suggesting there is a right or wrong answer here. Lets get your opinion.
 

SkyWriting

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I have a friend who says that her pastor insists we all need to "call out" sin in others. He teaches that we are obligated under the scriptures to do so and if we don't then their "blood" in on our hands. What do you think about it?
Im not suggesting there is a right or wrong answer here. Lets get your opinion.

There is very little support for the idea.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

(Note the use of "log" and "speck")

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

(Judge by the other person's heart or intent)

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Romans 14:1-13
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike.
Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that you be not judged.

Titus 3:2-7
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, ...

James 1:26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Proverbs 31:9
Open your mouth, judge righteously, -------> defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Matthew 7:1-29
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37-42
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.” He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? ...

Romans 12:16-19
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
 
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miamited

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Hi shempster,

Obviously, when we read how God instituted the law in Israel, and the consequences of an individual breaking the law, we can see that God certainly expected, of them, to police morality to some extent. Paul, in his Corinthian letter speaks of a congregation not doing what is right in God's sight with a serious lawbreaker among them. He seems to be allowing that there are some sins that a fellowship should not put up with within their fellowship.

I can't imagine that in all of these cases the people of Israel and the church were supposed to have waited until someone, of their own volition, confessed some sin to take action. However, I think it important that we understand that in both instances it is a policing of those within the ranks of God's people. When God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation, that nation was identified by God as being His people. Those among the church are supposed to be those who proclaim of themselves to be God's people.

So, my answer is two part. Yes, I believe the Scriptures do give us some authority to police sinful behavior among God's people, but not so much with the world at large. The world at large lives by a different law and it should be those of that law who police and enforce their law. However, I also believe, that even among God's people, there is a certain amount of mercy that God asks us to show to others. Strictly speaking, the woman who was caught in adultery should have been stoned, and the man with her. But I believe that Jesus saw that the application of the law was not being handled in a just manner, and therefore, allowed for mercy. He seems to have made the point that if the law enforcers are unjust, then their application of the law is likely unjust also.

However, as to the specific issue of your friend's pastor telling his flock to 'call out sin in others', I would think that is not such a good idea depending on how he would instruct them to handle the 'calling out'. As a personal one on one discussion concerning some immoral behavior, I think it could be a good idea and is the touchstone of mentoring and accountability programs. As a way to bring all the various and sundry immoral behaviors loudly before an entire fellowship, not so much.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Seek justice...love mercy. I find that to be the entire reasoning behind my Lord's death on the cross. God requires justice, and through His Son, He has attained that. But, for me the sinner, He has shown great mercy in His justice.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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Tolworth John

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her pastor insists we all need to "call out" sin in others
Try asking how he would feel if he was named and shamed publicly from the pulpit.

Yes a preacher should spell out that many accepted practises today are sinful and should not be done by Christians.

Do a straw poll among the young people at his church and find out how many believe sex before marriage is wrong?

If you want to stir things present the answers to him to show how ineffective his teaching of Christian morality is.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I have a friend who says that her pastor insists we all need to "call out" sin in others. He teaches that we are obligated under the scriptures to do so and if we don't then their "blood" in on our hands. What do you think about it?
Im not suggesting there is a right or wrong answer here. Lets get your opinion.

There's a major difference between coming to our brothers and sisters in love out of concern that their behavior is destructive--both to themselves and to others--to preach the Law to prick the conscience, calling them back to repentance; and shaming them in such a way as though we are somehow more righteous than they.

The former is biblical, loving, and pastoral; the latter is cruel and evil.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pat34lee

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There's a major difference between coming to our brothers and sisters in love out of concern that their behavior is destructive--both to themselves and to others--to preach the Law to prick the conscience, calling them back to repentance; and shaming them in such a way as though we are somehow more righteous than they.

The former is biblical, loving, and pastoral; the latter is cruel and evil.

-CryptoLutheran

So, Yeshua was cruel and evil to the Pharisees? Or did
he simply treat them as those who should know better
than to commit the evil that they did? We would treat
a child or a new Christian differently than an adult.
 
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pat34lee

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Matthew 18:15-17
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
 
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ViaCrucis

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So, Yeshua was cruel and evil to the Pharisees? Or did
he simply treat them as those who should know better
than to commit the evil that they did? We would treat
a child or a new Christian differently than an adult.

Wrong question, the right question is how did Jesus treat the tax collectors, the prostitutes, the sinners, such as the woman caught in adultery?

Yes, Jesus used much harsher language to call out those hypocrites in positions of power wielding their religious authority abusively and oppressively. And there is absolutely a place for speaking truth to power and unmasking the hypocrisy of those in authority--but the OP didn't seem to be talking about that.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pat34lee

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Wrong question, the right question is how did Jesus treat the tax collectors, the prostitutes, the sinners, such as the woman caught in adultery?

Yes, Jesus used much harsher language to call out those hypocrites in positions of power wielding their religious authority abusively and oppressively. And there is absolutely a place for speaking truth to power and unmasking the hypocrisy of those in authority--but the OP didn't seem to be talking about that.

-CryptoLutheran

It isn't just about power. It's about those who should
know better. We do not judge sinners, but we are to
judge between ourselves as a congregation. Even up
to turning them over to their own destruction.

Annais and Sephira. Acts 5
 
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