fighting isis

I feel it is a bad idea.

If congressmen were not involved in the decision making process on a post-ISIS Middle East than it would not actually be horrible.

Say we were to go to war with "ISIS" and win. That would inevitably result in Syria and Iraq being occupied by the US. Knowing how Arab people feel about the US it really would not be difficult to make both countries stable places and strong US allies. Unfortunately, when we have roughly 600 individuals in a city making decisions who do not know (or care) about the history of the Middle East, the Arab mentality, the unique background and culture within the Levant, or even the legitimate aspirations of the Kurds than we are do for nothing less than disaster.

Thomas50 said:

What are your views in the
Troops fighting isis

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What is your view? Why start a topic and wait for others to expose themselves if you have a view of your own?

E.C. said:

Say we were to go to war with "ISIS" and win. That would inevitably result in Syria and Iraq being occupied by the US.

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Say the US went to war and did not win.

Knowing how Arab people feel about the US it really would not be difficult to make both countries stable places and strong US allies.

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What? Did you misspeak?

Unfortunately, when we have roughly 600 individuals in a city making decisions who do not know (or care) about the history of the Middle East, the Arab mentality, the unique background and culture within the Levant, or even the legitimate aspirations of the Kurds than we are do for nothing less than disaster.

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The only thing that would make Arabs and Iranians despise the US more than it does for already being the Great Satan and supporter of Israel would be occupation of Muslim territory. If that could happen--attempting to occupy Syria and northern Iraq would be a losing proposition, and anyone who understood combat logistics could look at a map and see that.

RDKirk said:

What? Did you misspeak?

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No.

As one who has studied the Levant, its peoples and met some of its peoples I like to believe that I can "speak" on this subject with a fair degree of authority.
The people of the Arab world do indeed love Western culture. Movies, music, comedians, etc. However, there is a fear from those with power that too much admiration would result in Arabs losing their own identity and culture. The common people of Lebanon, Jordan and pre-war Syria love the US and Americans. The common people also are not really all that religious. Sure, they'll fast during Ramadan, but that's about the extent of your average Levantine Arab person's religious participation.

The only thing that would make Arabs and Iranians despise the US more than it does for already being the Great Satan and supporter of Israel would be occupation of Muslim territory. If that could happen--attempting to occupy Syria and northern Iraq would be a losing proposition, and anyone who understood combat logistics could look at a map and see that.

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Tis merely a small fraction of Iranian society that really truly believes that propaganda. Besides, Iran's motives are highly misunderstood in the West because of our media. In Iran, the American Olympic teams are more popular, more closely followed and more viewed than the Iranian teams. The mistakes that the US made with Iraq and Afghanistan is not occupation itself, but the manner in which we handled those occupations.

In Japan, for example, after WWII we rebuilt Japanese society and kept it centered around the Emperor because retaining the emperor maintained a degree of sanity and continuity for them. Afghanistan used to be a kingdom before their war with the Soviet Union some thirty-forty years ago. The last king of Afghanistan died around 2004, but was widely respected by Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks and all the other people of Afghanistan. He had been modernizing the country when the Soviets kicked him out in the 1970s, but if we had put him back in power instead of Karzai I'm willing to be that we'd see a very different Afghanistan than we do today because of the fact that the last king was so well respected by everybody that all factions would have readily rallied behind him to improve the country.


I don't think you've ever interacted with Arabs or Persians because if you had than you would know that the hatred which the media propagates is mainly coming from extremist elements of governments, not the majority opinion.

No, the majority opinion is VERY anti-US. American interference is viewed as an enormous obstacle to peace over there.

E.C. said:

No.

As one who has studied the Levant, its peoples and met some of its peoples I like to believe that I can "speak" on this subject with a fair degree of authority.
The people of the Arab world do indeed love Western culture. Movies, music, comedians, etc. However, there is a fear from those with power that too much admiration would result in Arabs losing their own identity and culture. The common people of Lebanon, Jordan and pre-war Syria love the US and Americans. The common people also are not really all that religious. Sure, they'll fast during Ramadan, but that's about the extent of your average Levantine Arab person's religious participation.


Tis merely a small fraction of Iranian society that really truly believes that propaganda. Besides, Iran's motives are highly misunderstood in the West because of our media. In Iran, the American Olympic teams are more popular, more closely followed and more viewed than the Iranian teams. The mistakes that the US made with Iraq and Afghanistan is not occupation itself, but the manner in which we handled those occupations.

In Japan, for example, after WWII we rebuilt Japanese society and kept it centered around the Emperor because retaining the emperor maintained a degree of sanity and continuity for them. Afghanistan used to be a kingdom before their war with the Soviet Union some thirty-forty years ago. The last king of Afghanistan died around 2004, but was widely respected by Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks and all the other people of Afghanistan. He had been modernizing the country when the Soviets kicked him out in the 1970s, but if we had put him back in power instead of Karzai I'm willing to be that we'd see a very different Afghanistan than we do today because of the fact that the last king was so well respected by everybody that all factions would have readily rallied behind him to improve the country.


I don't think you've ever interacted with Arabs or Persians because if you had than you would know that the hatred which the media propagates is mainly coming from extremist elements of governments, not the majority opinion.

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Hi EC,
some very interesting views there mate! What do you make of Putin going into Syria? What if Russia put boots on the ground to at least stop the civil war in Syria, which might halt some of the refugee crisis we're seeing in Europe? Lastly, what do you make of this Caspian report in Syria?

Thomas50 said:

What are your views in the
Troops fighting isis

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It is a requirement. They need to seal up the Levant prior to Iran, Iran has to go down prior to 100% GCC NATO controlled Middle east.

The US "Dumb Giant" has to be the muscle.

OIL is the key goal there oil control and petro-dollar control. Nothing less, nothing more other than full ME control with the world war cycle.

NATO has "black" areas of expansion but even on the books it is four times more war potential than Russia and China combined. This happened because after the Cold War Russia and China went globalization hosts, and they helped fund NATO who went final world war gangbusters on steriods.

So, Russia and China have already lost WW4, counting Cold WW3 in the count.

BUT, to make it all look real, they will play this world war out in some unique ways and for the course, but it all resolves as per Revelation 13:3 into world government "8th King", "King North" and a global "world peace" of 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 to help sell the gig.

Everything else like ISIS, is just like "Crazy Horse", just a distraction for the mostly unseen goal: GOLD and control. No matter the form it may exist in. (Daniel 11:42-43)

Bad idea. Corporations fueling the war. Mercenaries fighting other mercenaries for blood money.

ISIS is just an upgraded version of the Talibans and the following Iraq invasion of the States.

This madness should stop.

Thomas50 said:

What are your views in the
Troops fighting isis

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It's Destiny. Read Revelation 12:15-16 and ask God for Wisdom to understand.

Jonathan Mathews said:

It's Destiny. Read Revelation 12:15-16 and ask God for Wisdom to understand.

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Back in my youth, all the end-times prophets had firmly concluded, and had preached for decades, that it was all about a final battle with Russia. They had all the scriptures pointing directly to Russia. Now some of those same folk are in love with Russia.

USA: Don't get tangled in confusing Syrian affairs but
BY
ALL
MEANS
FIGHT
ISIS!!!

The Sniper said:

USA: Don't get tangled in confusing Syrian affairs but
BY
ALL
MEANS
FIGHT
ISIS!!!

Click to expand...

But Saudi Arabia wants the US to fight Assad and Iran, and so the US shall. The US is Saudi's proxy in their Sunni/Shiite war.

The spiritual war against radical islam must be fought either before or simultaneous with military action.

I suggest these books:



Prayer Strategy for the Victory of Jesus Christ: Defeating Demonic Strongholds of ISIS and Radical Islam (A Prayer Strategy for Jesus' Victory Over Islam) (Volume 2): Dr. Zeb Bradford Long: 9780692596463: Amazon.com: Books

RDKirk said:

Back in my youth, all the end-times prophets had firmly concluded, and had preached for decades, that it was all about a final battle with Russia. They had all the scriptures pointing directly to Russia. Now some of those same folk are in love with Russia.

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Yes, I am one of those who thought that Russia was Magog.
But I also understood that Europe would be one of the forces who would oppose God at the Battle of Armageddon and looking at their antics over the past few years, particularly with their support of the fascist regime in Ukraine along with its irrational angst against the Russian Federation, I can understand that Europe/NATO will most likely be the primary force of evil in the last days.

Of course the role of the US in the NATO federation will be interesting, will it leave, be thrown out or will it be one of the leading forces of darkness in the last days?

DIE! DIE! KILL THEM ALL! *Evil laughter*

No, I'm only joking.

All joking aside, I have actually been afraid of Isis before, I think it is a good idea to make sure they don't do anything else bad.

I know this is a thread about ISIS, but some of the eschatological posts above require me to post my usual AMIL rationale. Many futurists who see Revelation as a timetable for the last generation insist they read it 'literally'. They don't! In their rush to make the book all about them and their generation and their theories about Russia or the Middle East or whatever, they miss the clearest parts of Revelation which actually *are* quite literal. They miss the introduction, the very instruction manual for the book!

In Revelation Chapter 1, we'll see 4 key things that mean it was primarily John preparing his generation for serious persecution from the Romans. 4 things!

1. SOON:
Revelation 1 shows us that this book was written by John to his generation with a *generic* message about suffering that would break out under Rome but would teach all future generations about obedience to Christ in such terrible situations.
Literally, all these things would “…SOON take place." (Rev 1:1)
"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is NEAR." (Rev 1:3)

2. OBEY
Note that John wanted his generation to *obey* the message (take it to heart). How do you obey a message all about people 2000 years in the future, and not even about you? You can’t. But John expected *his* generation to *obey* this message, and stay faithful with patient endurance in these times of suffering.

3. *TRIBULATION* started THEN!
John shared in it! Rev 1:9 "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (NASB) The tribulation had *already* started, 2000 years ago as the Romans started persecuting the church. Think of the questions early Jewish Christians had at the time. Was the Messiah still going to save Israel from her enemies and kick out the Romans? What was the point of belonging to this 'new Israel', the church, if it didn't guarantee any national or personal security? How were Christians to understand the eventual fall of the temple in AD70? Why was God letting his forgiven people suffer so much? John answers these questions. Revelation is a sermon about suffering, written in rich biblical images. It's like a Marvel Superhero comic with colourful villains we boo and hiss, and a wonderful hero that will most certainly win victory for all. It was written *to* them and specifically *about* them and their suffering. But just as we can read Paul's letters to Ephesus and Corinth and Rome and learn what it means to serve God, we can read this letter to the church suffering Roman persecution and learn.
By teaching John's generation how to suffer under Rome, it also reminds us that our kingdom is eternal, not temporal, spiritual, not political, sometimes poor in this world, but rich in the next. If we listen, and learn the lesson they learned 2000 years ago. If we listen to John we'll be reminded where the *true* temple now is, where true security exists, and how our true home is being prepared. It’s about God calls us to be faithful even when this world asks us to trust in governments and worldly philosophies and riches.

4. IT ENDS IN THE GOSPEL HOPE
It starts with the gospel in chapter 1:2 "who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ." It's not a timetable of the future, it's about the gospel! John says so right here. Sure it ends with 3 graphic descriptions of the return of the Lord (from different camera angles, so to speak). But just because Revelation reminds John's generation of the Lord's eventual return in victory and judgement, it does *not* mean the entire book is a timetable of that return. It's an encouragement to John's generation then (and for all Christians following), not a timetable for us now. If it were about *us* (and every generation thinks they're pretty special, see the comments about how people used to think Magog was about Russia), then the book has been irrelevant and useless to the church for 2000 years. It would almost be like John saying to his suffering generation, "You think the Romans are bad, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!" It just doesn't make any sense. John said the persecution was starting soon, he already shared in it, and he wanted *them* to *obey* his message. All his instructions in Chapter 1 are impossible if the whole book is about 2000 years later! Instead, we should read it the way the Reformers read it, as Amillennials. We learn from Revelation about suffering today as we think about Christians in North Korea or various Muslim nations. Christians suffering persecution receive this book with great thanksgiving and are encouraged by it, when they understand what it is *really* saying.

For more on this Amillennial perspective, please buy "Apocalypse Now and then" by Dr Paul Barnett. He's a Sydney Anglican Bishop that also taught ancient history for many years in a local university, and his family fellowship at my church. It's gold! I encourage you to buy a copy on kindle.

Thomas50 wrote: "What are your views in the Troops fighting isis?

StarTemple said:

It is a requirement. They need to seal up the Levant prior to Iran, Iran has to go down prior to 100% GCC NATO controlled Middle east.

The US "Dumb Giant" has to be the muscle.

OIL is the key goal there oil control and petro-dollar control. Nothing less, nothing more other than full ME control with the world war cycle.

NATO has "black" areas of expansion but even on the books it is four times more war potential than Russia and China combined. This happened because after the Cold War Russia and China went globalization hosts, and they helped fund NATO who went final world war gangbusters on steriods.

So, Russia and China have already lost WW4, counting Cold WW3 in the count.

BUT, to make it all look real, they will play this world war out in some unique ways and for the course, but it all resolves as per Revelation 13:3 into world government "8th King", "King North" and a global "world peace" of 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 to help sell the gig.

Everything else like ISIS, is just like "Crazy Horse", just a distraction for the mostly unseen goal: GOLD and control. No matter the form it may exist in. (Daniel 11:42-43)

Click to expand...

I've replied to StarTemple because this post is closest to reality. Thanks for pointing us in the right direction.

In 2013 a NATO amphibious task force composed of British French and American ships approached the west coast of Syria. Their purpose was a full scale invasion of Bashar al-Assad's domain. Mideastern and Russian news media at the time called the invading force the FUKUS alliance (for France, United Kingdom & USA). NATO justification for the invasion was a chemical gas attack in and around the city of Ghouta, Syria. Western news media immediately accused the Assad government of executing an attack upon its own people. The Syrian government denied it.

And then some strange things happened.....not fully explored or published by western news media.

A UN investigation revealed the rockets delivering the chemical gas upon Ghouta had been fired from positions held by al-Qaeda forces (provisioned by American intelligence agencies). The rockets did not have sufficient range to have been fired from Syrian army positions. Assad's denial was true. The results of the UN investigation were not published in the western press.

A number of phone calls were initiated by the Kremlin. According to TASS news service they linked Vladimir Putin to the leaders of France Britain and America. One by one the participants in the invasion turned their ships around and headed home - France first followed by Britain and America last of all. The invasion was turned around and halted by a series of phone calls and Russia won the battle without firing a shot. The story was never published in the western press although the fact of the failed invasion could not be denied. What did Putin say on the phone? We may never know, but it must have been pretty powerful stuff.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia became inflamed against the United States for failing to invade Syria and threatened an oil embargo as well as severance of diplomatic ties to the US. John Kerry, Secretary of State at the time, immediately flew to Ryad for secret talks. No one really knows what subjects were discussed, but when Kerry boarded his plane for its return flight to Washington the house of Saud had been placated. What did they talk about and what plans were made for the future?

Six months later two elements existed in the middle east that did not exist prior to Kerry's visit to Ryad.
First was the establishment of offices of the Syrian National Council in Istanbul. The purpose of the SNC was threefold; gather financing from the GCC (*), purchase military arms and supplies (supervised by United Kingdom) and support ISIL, which at the time was a disorganized and badly led mob. The task of recruiting, supplying, training and leading ISIL was performed by elements of NATO and the GCC (*). Yes boys and girls, al-Qaeda as well as ISIL are monsters created by America and the major nations of Europe. The purpose of al-Qaeda and ISIL are not a mystery - the seizure of power from Syria, the same purpose as the failed invasion of 2013. Connect the dots and you do not discover a pretty picture.

The Frankenstein monster did not behave as its fictional creator intended and neither did ISIL or al-Qaeda. Hillary Clinton once bemoaned the creation of al-Qaeda by the CIA and Senator John McCain called them heroes for their participation in the overthrow of Libya. But who stole all of Muhammar Gaddafi's gold? It wasn't al-Qaeda. Who received mineral rights to Libyan oil? Again, not al-Qaeda. Connect the dots and you'll not see a pretty picture.

Today ISIL seems to be losing the battle for Syria, but tomorrow is another day and the interest America and NATO nations have in the middle east has not slackened one oily ounce.

Today the new global war is TRADE not military conquest. China, as we all know, is a major player on the world trade stage. The Chinese one belt one road project is the biggest trade infrastructure improvement project since the Great Wall. Wealth is measured in terms of what is produced, not what is spent. What is America doing?

America is wallowing in debt, self-pride and denial of God as well as moral standards, a situation and attitude that is not profitable. Our own infrastructure is crumbling around us and nobody, Trump included, seems to be doing anything substantial about it. America once led the world in every category. Today we are below third world nations, except for our bloated and over extended military. Do we really need a navy larger than the next 17 nations twelve of which are our allies? Our national pride will be our undoing.

Al jazeera, middle east news source, once published the ironic statement, "only Jesus Christ can save America." American news media, as always, remains silent on the Jesus issue as well as all the rest. No surprises there.

Is anyone connecting the dots?

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

(*) GCC or Gulf Cooperation Council is composed of the following member states;
Bahrain
Oman
Kuwait
Qatar
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
United Arab Emirates

It all depends if the propeller heads actually "mean" to allow our troops to fight ISIS as they need to be fought to win the fight or are we going to play "political games" that get our guys killed un-necessarily as we have since Vietnam! If you let the soldiers call the shots rather incompetent idiots like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, or any politician Democrat or Republican that refuses to let our troops actually wipe the little cockroaches of the face of the earth then no don't go but if you are going spray Raid on the roaches and wipe them out then go for it. If you have never heard the sonic crack of a bullet as it passes by you before the sound of the gun firing at you don't understand but those of you that have you understand what I'm talking about. Men who sit in air conditioned offices who have never heard that sound send young men into harms way and some never live long enough to hear that sound because you never hear the bullet that kills you. War at least in my humble opinion should not involve politics unless the politicians join the front lines and lead the charges as too many GOOD men have died needlessly.

Feeding men into the meat grinder piecemeal is not justifiable. It only prolongs the slaughter. Todays American society are unfortunately wimps. They have no real concept of what is really going on the real world and what it may take as there fathers and grand-fathers did. Todays average American wants someone else to take care of the problems in the world as they just really do not want to be bothered. America like the Roman Empire did is growing weak and corrupt from indifference and incompetence. It really is so sad. It seems everyone is so self absorbed trying to get their share they can't see what is happening around them. Nero is tuning up his fiddle as the fires are beginning to burn.