- Jan 10, 2010
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We don't have any words for things that don't change and die becasue of time.
Yes we do.
Things that don't change = changeless or unchanging.
Things that don't die = immortal
How can anyone bequeath to someone else, something they do not possess?
Time causes degradation and decay
God is there, in both places, for our beginning and our end, and doesn't change in the middle.
The scripture writers must have gotten their writings
from some source that we do, or do not have access to?
My mistake. Thanks for the correction.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God,
be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. ...
Romans 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like
a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. ...
1 Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has
seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. ...
Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy LORD, you have been active from ancient times; my sovereign God, you are immortal.
.
How did God bequeath to us physical material bodies when he himself is immaterial?How can anyone bequeath to someone else, something they do not possess?
Look, I'm not opposed to either view of God being in time or outside of time, so we could go back and forth with scriptures all day. I'm just maintaining the view that scripture isn't 100% clear on the issue. If you hold the timeless view of God, as most seem to, I'm fine with that. Let's talk about how it relates to free will.
What in particular (relating to this thread) do you find wrong with Aristotle?I don't consider Aquinas a very good source about such questions. He considers Aristotle (among others) as an authority.
Anyway, the question of free will makes no sense for God.
There are aspects of our soul which clearly don't have free will, for example, the subconscious or unconscious. Only when conscious do we have free will, and only then regarding things involving the will.
Materialist scientists want to deny free will because, I think, they might have to consider the existence of something outside of the physical material universe.
Interesting question. It's going a little of topic but I'll answer anyway.Thank you for correcting me. If you think God has
-No Control
-Limited Control or
-Full Control
you may offer your support for your decision.
I stand behind "Full control of the instantaneous position of every electron in the Cosmos."
17 He is before all things,
and in Him all things hold together.
Psalm 135:6
Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.
Psalm 115:3
But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';
Daniel 4:35
"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'
Luke 1:37
Job 42:2
Matthew 19:26
Ephesians 3:20
1 Samuel 2:10
2 Chronicles 20:6
Job 9:12
But I also see him as a minimalist when it comes to intervening, meaning he leaves the laws of nature doing their job for the most part, only intervening in the most economical way to achieve his will.
Look, I'm not opposed to either view of God being in time or outside of time, so we could go back and forth with scriptures all day. I'm just maintaining the view that scripture isn't 100% clear on the issue. If you hold the timeless view of God, as most seem to, I'm fine with that. Let's talk about how it relates to free will.
So where the Bible says 'in him all things hold together', I view it as God upholding the laws of nature that govern the universe rather than him controlling each interaction governed by those laws. Of course God can control any and every particle at any time he wishes to serve his purpose. For example, he does so when he parts the red sea, but has no need to control every atom in the breeze blowing in my garden as the laws of nature do the job sufficiently without intervention.
Why did you post these verses?
Proof?
There was time before the fall, no? So would Adam still be subject to degradation and death had he made better choices?The wages of Sin is Death. So Adam deserved immediate death. Instead, God gave the gift of "time" which slowly causes degradation and death. Inside this gift, which delays our immediate death, is the "free will" to focus on the intent of God rather than on accumulating power and control over creation. We have the "free will" to change our course from permanent death, to living with God instead. Should we choose that, we get to continue. According to scripture, our destiny is known to God already. So that's a continuous conundrum that can't be explained.
Things wrong with Aristotle...What in particular (relating to this thread) do you find wrong with Aristotle?
Is there ever a bad reason?
Time causes degradation and decay
I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me. Please explain how time can be the cause of anything? What does time itself, cause?
The same goes for murder and the entire rest of the Cosmos then.Causation: Perhaps the big bang had no preceding cause. Perhaps the randomness of quantum mechanics and the weak force don't either.
This would suggest that He made the earth, and the stars are there so we can see better at night. The nearly infinite Cosmos doesn't seem like the most economical way to create humans.
I'm going to take Jesus's word that we are his children and the plants and animals are our food and not God's main goal. Otherwise eating people would be fine.