The apostles vs prosperity preachers.

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
Ephesians 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),

Matthew 13:22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

dqhall · Sep 30, 2017

A homeless street vendor had $185,000 in cash hidden in a garbage bag stashed somewhere. He tried to deposit it at a bank and a teller eventually stole it from him:
Wells Fargo bank teller stole nearly $200,000 from a customer and spent it on a down payment for his home and several vacations

I imagine some millionaires live in trailer parks:
Zappos' multimillionaire CEO explains why he lives in a trailer park with his two pet llamas

I may not go hungry if I avoid spending it all on status symbols.

I heard a prosperity preacher on cable TV today. He had a room full of phones with operators taking donations called in over the phone. He was in a fine suit of clothes and promising people the gift of the Holy Spirit in exchange for their donations. This is sinful. I did not wait to hear more of his preaching.

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

dqhall said:
A homeless street vendor had $185,000 in cash hidden in a garbage bag stashed somewhere. He tried to deposit it at a bank and a teller eventually stole it from him:
Wells Fargo bank teller stole nearly $200,000 from a customer and spent it on a down payment for his home and several vacations

I imagine some millionaires live in trailer parks:
Zappos' multimillionaire CEO explains why he lives in a trailer park with his two pet llamas

I may not go hungry if I avoid spending it all on status symbols.

I heard a prosperity preacher on cable TV today. He had a room full of phones with operators taking donations called in over the phone. He was in a fine suit of clothes and promising people the gift of the Holy Spirit in exchange for their donations. This is sinful. I did not wait to hear more of his preaching.

I agree.

Frank Jennings · Sep 30, 2017

God comes Himself to save many each day. Forty years ago He came and saved me and I had no idea what had happened. He baptized me in the Holy Spirit and I was ignorant of what had happened. The so called prosperity message was just getting up steam then. We've always turned away from it rather trusting in the Bible and Holy Spirit to be our guide. There is much deception now because of avarice. The cross, the blood of Jesus and the very Bible have been abandoned for other things. How many pastors are not eve of born again? How many more are not baptized with the Holy Spirit? Ezekiel 34:11-16 is truly my testimony.

Ezekiel 34:1-16 (NKJV)
1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock.
4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.
5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them."
7 'Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord:
8 "as I live," says the Lord God, "surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock"-–
9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord!
10 Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them."
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God.
16 I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

Frank Jennings said:
God comes Himself to save many each day. Forty years ago He came and saved me and I had no idea what had happened. He baptized me in the Holy Spirit and I was ignorant of what had happened. The so called prosperity message was just getting up steam then. We've always turned away from it rather trusting in the Bible and Holy Spirit to be our guide. There is much deception now because of avarice. The cross, the blood of Jesus and the very Bible have been abandoned for other things. How many pastors are not eve of born again? How many more are not baptized with the Holy Spirit? Ezekiel 34:11-16 is truly my testimony.

Ezekiel 34:1-16 (NKJV)
1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock.
4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.
5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them."
7 'Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord:
8 "as I live," says the Lord God, "surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock"-–
9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord!
10 Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them."
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God.
16 I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."

Good scripture, thank you.

Anand Prabhu Antony · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
The apostles were poorly dressed and fed, and worked with their own hands. They were poor, yet rich because their money was in heaven. Now observe the rich prosperity preacher, with his luxury cars, private jets, huge mansions, expensive clothes and furniture... why do they not follow the apostles example? Why dont they work with their hands instead of selling their teaching? The apostles preached for free. They didnt sell their teaching. Why do prosperity preachers take such high salaries as well? THey look nothing like a man of God to me. Im sorry if i sound judgmental but i sincerely struggle to understand how a Christian can live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. This world is full of ghettos and slums, yet these preachers live a rich lifestyle.

Lord Jesus Christ said two things to the rich man
1. Matt 19:17: "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
2. Matt 19:21: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor.."

Getting perfect is different from just entering life into heaven. That rich man asked our Lord Jesus, is anything am still lacking apart from abiding the ten commandments. So, there are different levels of reward from God according to our works done in this earth.

If we wants to be perfect, atleast we have to become like Apostles. They well abided Lord's words in their lives. Like Peter say's in Matt 19:27 : "Behold, we have left everything and followed You.."

Acts 3:6 -Peter says, “I have no silver or gold, but what I have I give you; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, stand up and walk".

Apostle Barnabas in Acts 4:37 -"who owned a tract of land, sold it and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet".

In Luke 12:21, it says that whoever stores up riches for himself is not rich toward God.

In Matt 6:19-20, Jesus says -"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth..., But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven.."

Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be".

According to our works we will have our reward from God. So, The Salvation is free but that is not enough. Growing to be rich in heaven is also matters. We got the free ticket to heaven, but the value of that seat is added according to our works. Its in our hands to get rich in heaven or not.

Jesus said it as literal. Let us try to abide more in Lord's words and Apostolic tradition.

Philippians 4:11-13 (NLT)
Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have. I know how to live on almost nothing or with everything. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little. For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.

1John 3:16-18
We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.…

James 4:17
"Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin".

Mark 12:41-44
Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”

James 2:15-17
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Revelation 2:9
“I know your works, oppression, and your poverty (but you are rich)...'
note: Those who are rich here, they are poor in the sight of God. Those who are in poverty here, they are rich towards God.

LUKE 6: 20-26

20 He(Lord Jesus Christ) lifted up his eyes to his disciples, and said, “Blessed are you who are poor, God’s Kingdom is yours.

21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.

22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man’s sake.

23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven, for their fathers did the same thing to the prophets.

24 “But woe to you who are rich! For you have received your consolation.

25 Woe to you, you who are full now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep.

26 Woe, note when men speak well of you, for their fathers did the same thing to the false prophets.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

Praise God.

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

Anand Prabhu Antony said:
Lord Jesus Christ said two things to the rich man
1. Matt 19:17: "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
2. Matt 19:21: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor.."

Getting perfect is different from just entering life into heaven. That rich man asked our Lord Jesus, is anything am still lacking apart from abiding the ten commandments. So, there are different levels of reward from God according to our works done in this earth.

If we wants to be perfect, atleast we have to become like Apostles. They well abided Lord's words in their lives. Like Peter say's in Matt 19:27 : "Behold, we have left everything and followed You.."

Acts 3:6 -Peter says, “I have no silver or gold, but what I have I give you; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, stand up and walk".

Apostle Barnabas in Acts 4:37 -"who owned a tract of land, sold it and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet".

In Luke 12:21, it says that whoever stores up riches for himself is not rich toward God.

In Matt 6:19-20, Jesus says -"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth..., But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven.."

Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be".

According to our works we will have our reward from God. So, The Salvation is free but that is not enough. Growing to be rich in heaven is also matters. We got the free ticket to heaven, but the value of that seat is added according to our works. Its in our hands to get rich in heaven or not.

Jesus said it as literal. Let us try to abide more in Lord's words and Apostolic tradition.

Philippians 4:11-13 (NLT)
Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have. I know how to live on almost nothing or with everything. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little. For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.

1John 3:16-18
We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.…

James 4:17
"Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin".

Mark 12:41-44
Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”

James 2:15-17
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Revelation 2:9
“I know your works, oppression, and your poverty (but you are rich)...'
note: Those who are rich here, they are poor in the sight of God. Those who are in poverty here, they are rich towards God.

LUKE 6: 20-26

20 He(Lord Jesus Christ) lifted up his eyes to his disciples, and said, “Blessed are you who are poor, God’s Kingdom is yours.

21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.

22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man’s sake.

23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven, for their fathers did the same thing to the prophets.

24 “But woe to you who are rich! For you have received your consolation.

25 Woe to you, you who are full now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep.

26 Woe, note when men speak well of you, for their fathers did the same thing to the false prophets.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

Praise God.

Thank you for all the scriptures.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Good post. Either they buy the gold refined in fire, or they get thrown in it and refined.
Sounds a little bit like He may be talking to high ranking members of the OC Priesthood?
Notice this prophecy in Malachi:

Malachi 3:
1 “Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple;..................
2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap.
3 “He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness

And this concerning Jerusalem:

Ezekiel 22:
17 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 “Son of adam!
The house of Israel has become dross to Me; all of them are bronze and tin and iron and lead in the furnace; they are the dross of silver.
19 “Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Because all of you have become dross, therefore, behold, I am going to gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 ‘As they gather silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into the furnace to blow fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in My anger and in My wrath and I will lay you there and melt you.
21 ‘I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted in the midst of it. 22 ‘As silver is melted in the furnace, so you will be melted in the midst of it; and you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath on you.’” [Destruction of Jerusalem 70ad?]

And here they are gathered in Jerusalem:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover;
and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival.....

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly...........

The Romans, exasperated to the highest pitch against the Jews, seized every person whom they could find, and, without the least regard to sex, age or quality, first plundered and then slew them.
The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage.
Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire. .............

OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

......................

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Sounds a little bit like He may be talking to high ranking members of the OC Priesthood?

I dont know, you could be right. It sounds like prosperity preachers to me.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
I dont know, you could be right. It sounds like prosperity preachers to me.

The Jewish rulers could be considered that, as they only cared about themselves and money instead of the common Jews, but the prosperity preachers can be a type of "Pharisee"?

Luk 16:14
Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.

Look who Jesus spoke this to and I wonder if that High Priest was still alive in 70ad?

Matt 26:
64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye,
from present ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy!.......
[Jeremiah 4:13Reve 1:7/6:16]

Then we have this covenantle parable in Luke 16, which I believe is showing the OC of Moses vs the NC of Jesus:
Some commentators identify the rich man in this parable as the house of Judah, [which the word Jew comes from], which included the tribes of Benjamin [the tribe which the Apostle Paul was from], and the priestly tribe of Levi :

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:19
"There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."

The Jews were truly rich, feasting on God's spiritual blessings. Yet these very gifts caused them to stumble because they prompted them to self-righteousness. They gloried in the gifts, without glorifying the Eternal God who gave them.
Instead of being a "royal priesthood" that was a blessing to all nations, they instead loathed and despised the surrounding peoples. Certainly, as Paul wrote, "their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them" (Rom. 11:9).

Matthew 26:3
Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, to the Court/aulhn <833> of the chief priest who was called Caiaphas

Reve 11:2
and the Court that is outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting Out/ekbale <1544> (5628) out-side/exw <1854> and not her you should be measuring..........

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
The Jewish rulers could be considered that, as they only cared about themselves and money instead of the common Jews, but the prosperity preachers can be a type of "Pharisee"?

Luk 16:14
Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.

Look who Jesus spoke this to and I wonder if that High Priest was still alive in 70ad?

Matt 26:
64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye,
from present ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy!.......
[Jeremiah 4:13Reve 1:7/6:16]

Then we have this covenantle parable in Luke 16, which I believe is showing the OC of Moses vs the NC of Jesus:
Some commentators identify the rich man in this parable as the house of Judah, [which the word Jew comes from], which included the tribes of Benjamin [the tribe which the Apostle Paul was from], and the priestly tribe of Levi :

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:19
"There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."

The Jews were truly rich, feasting on God's spiritual blessings. Yet these very gifts caused them to stumble because they prompted them to self-righteousness. They gloried in the gifts, without glorifying the Eternal God who gave them.
Instead of being a "royal priesthood" that was a blessing to all nations, they instead loathed and despised the surrounding peoples. Certainly, as Paul wrote, "their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them" (Rom. 11:9).

Matthew 26:3
Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, to the Court/aulhn <833> of the chief priest who was called Caiaphas

Reve 11:2
and the Court that is outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting Out/ekbale <1544> (5628) out-side/exw <1854> and not her you should be measuring..........

Thanks for reply the LLoJ. "Lovers of money" is also mentioned here:

2 Timothy 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Perilous Times and Perilous Men
3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
Thanks for reply the LLoJ. "Lovers of money" is also mentioned here:

2 Timothy 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Perilous Times and Perilous Men
3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3

Good verse.
I believe that may be talking about the last days of OC Jerusalem and Temple in ad70, since that was spoken before that period?

However, I would also say we should treat each day as our own "last day", as shown in Luke 20;.

Luke 12:
16 Then He told them a parable: “The ground of a certain rich man produced an abundance...........
19 Then I will say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take it easy. Eat, drink, and be merry!”’
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee:
then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Perhaps the ends up where this rich man in Luke 16 ended up as a "rich man" is also shown in it....I don't think he is there just because he is rich

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The last of days is also mentiond in Gen 49:1, Dan 10:14, and 12:13 concerning Jacob/Israel' 12 sons:

Genesis 49:
1 And Jacob calleth unto his sons and saith,
‘Be gathered together, and I declare to you that which doth happen with ye in the latter end of the days.
2 ‘Be assembled, and hear, sons of Jacob, and hearken unto Israel your father.

Dan 10:14
and I have come to cause thee to understand that which doth happen to thy people in the latter end of the days, for yet the vision is after days.

Dan 12:13
And thou, go on to the end, then thou dost rest,
and dost stand in thy lot at the end of the days.'

OldWiseGuy · Sep 30, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Luke 12:
16 Then He told them a parable: “The ground of a certain rich man produced an abundance...........
19 Then I will say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take it easy. Eat, drink, and be merry!”’
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee:
then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Perhaps the ends up where this rich man in Luke 16 ended up as a "rich man" is also shown in it....I don't think he is there just because he is rich

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Overlooked is that these parables are directed at "certain" rich men, not 'all' rich men.

This is interesting as well,

"....then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"

Apparently this guy didn't have heirs, or a will. If God calls me "this night" my kids and grandkids will inherit my wealth.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 30, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
Overlooked is that these parables are directed at "certain" rich men, not 'all' rich men.

That is true. Good catch.
That particular phrase is used only 3 times in the entire bible, all in Luke 16.
I view the parable of the rich man[OC/OT and Lazarus[NC/NT] as covenantle, and perhaps the rest of them are as well. Thoughts

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"certain" AND "rich" AND "man occurs in 3 verses

Luk 12:16
Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
Luk 16:1
He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods.
Luk 16:19
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.

This one favorite commentator of mine explains it this way:

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave?.......

Usually, when the story of the rich man and Lazarus is considered, its setting is ignored. At the time the story was told Jesus had just eaten dinner with a Pharisee, at which time He not only healed a man with dropsy, but gave some pointed advice about how to give a dinner party........

There are five stories which follow consecutively. It is well known, of course, that chapters and verses were not in the original scriptures. We are at liberty to change them when they do not synchronize with other scripture.
Any arrangement of chapter and verse division that clarifies or harmonizes other scripture, is more authoritative than that division that beclouds other statements of the Bible...............

At the beginning of Jesus’ discourse in chapter fifteen of Luke the statement is made that “He spoke this parable unto them, saying,” (Lk. 15:3).
The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is “the parable this..” This statement is followed by five separate stories, the first of which is the story of the lost sheep, and the last is the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

You see, the teaching in chapter sixteen is but the continuation of the discourse in chapter fifteen, without interruption. Now, which of the five stories He gave them in this sermon was called a parable? The only one of the five which is prefaced by the claim, “And He spoke this parable unto them,” was the story about the lost sheep. Was the lost sheep the only one that could be called a parable? And yet, any preacher or believer that I know will answer that the story of the lost coin, as well as the prodigal son, were also parables. Then why was the singular used - “this parable”?

It should be clear to any thinking mind that all these stories were ONE PARABLE, like the facets of a diamond, as they turn each scintillates with new brilliance. Each was illustrating a view point of one great truth, and together they compose a whole. And this parabolic discourse of Jesus is continued into chapter sixteen of Luke, including the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

The truth is that all five stories are each a fractional part of the complete parable, and when we read, “He spoke this parable unto them,” this embraces the entire collection of symbol-pictures which in their completeness constituted the parable which He spoke. It is a careless assumption and an unfounded assertion to argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable!

AlexDTX · Sep 30, 2017

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Blade · Sep 30, 2017

Our brother Paul said.. "the gospel is being preached". The word of God makes it clear how we are to think and speak and then about others. Shall I post the verses for you? Phil, Col, Thes, Eph?

I can't be apart of this. It opens doors I do NOT want to touch. I have searched and found out things about some of these. And its never talked about. Well its the GOOD things they do. But thats not what this is about. Two words come to mind.. that never do "bitterness and strife"

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

Blade said:
Our brother Paul said.. "the gospel is being preached". The word of God makes it clear how we are to think and speak and then about others. Shall I post the verses for you? Phil, Col, Thes, Eph?

I can't be apart of this. It opens doors I do NOT want to touch. I have searched and found out things about some of these. And its never talked about. Well its the GOOD things they do. But thats not what this is about. Two words come to mind.. that never do "bitterness and strife"

Thanks for your reply.

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

AlexDTX said:
I see you are still beating the same drum. How do you know the apostles were poorly dressed and fed? What makes you think they were poor?

1 Corinthians 4:11New King James Version (NKJV)
11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless.

Daniel Martinovich · Sep 30, 2017

W2L said:
The apostles were poorly dressed and fed, and worked with their own hands. They were poor, yet rich because their money was in heaven. Now observe the rich prosperity preacher, with his luxury cars, private jets, huge mansions, expensive clothes and furniture... why do they not follow the apostles example? Why dont they work with their hands instead of selling their teaching? The apostles preached for free. They didnt sell their teaching. Why do prosperity preachers take such high salaries as well? THey look nothing like a man of God to me. Im sorry if i sound judgmental but i sincerely struggle to understand how a Christian can live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. This world is full of ghettos and slums, yet these preachers live a rich lifestyle.

While there is always excessive behavior in some individuals. Jesus explains in one of his parables about the kingdom of God why the Apostles and other pioneers with the gospel suffer so much while those who reap the benefits of those who went before them do not.

The Parable of the Laborers Hired To Work in the Field

W2L · Sep 30, 2017

Daniel Martinovich said:
While there is always excessive behavior in some individuals. Jesus explains in one of his parables about the kingdom of God why the Apostles and other pioneers with the gospel suffer so much while those who reap the benefits of those who went before them do not.

The Parable of the Laborers Hired To Work in the Field

I would rather be content with simple things, rather than to love money to the point that i live like a king on earth while others live in slums and dig in the garbage.

The apostles vs prosperity preachers.

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Wake me when it's soup.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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