The contents of Holy Tradition. What ya got there?

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 9, 2017

Sacred tradition - Wikipedia

In Orthodox theology, Holy Tradition is the inspired revelation of God and catholic teaching (Gk. katholikos, "according to the whole") of the Church, not an independent source of dogmatic authority to be regarded as a supplement to biblical revelation. Tradition is rather understood as the fullness of divine truth proclaimed in the scriptures, preserved by the apostolic bishops, and expressed in the life of the Church through such things as the Divine Liturgy and the Holy Mysteries (Eucharist, baptism, marriage, etc.), the Creed and other doctrinal definitions of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, canonical Christian iconography, and the sanctified lives of godly men and women (the Saints). (They left out sacred music.)

According to the theological understanding of these Churches, sacred scripture is the written part of this larger tradition, recording (albeit sometimes through the work of individual authors) the community's experience of God or more specifically of Jesus Christ. Hence the Bible must be interpreted within the context of sacred tradition and within the community of the church. This is in contrast to many Protestant traditions, which teach that the Bible alone is a sufficient basis for all Christian teaching (a position known as sola scriptura).
............

Holy (T)radition for the Eastern Orthodox is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration, or subtraction. Vladimir Lossky described tradition as "the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church." It is dynamic in application yet unchanging in dogma. It is growing in expression yet is always the same in essence. The Eastern Orthodox churches do not regard tradition as something which accrues or expands over time. Rather, Orthodox believe (Holy T)radition is the faith which Jesus Christ taught to the apostles and which they gave to their disciples without any development or deepening in understanding of the faith. It is merely that faith once delivered as understood within the context of lived history.

Holy Scripture - OrthodoxWiki

The Holy Scripture is a collection of books written over multiple centuries by those inspired by God to do so. It is the primary witness to the Orthodox Christian faith, within Holy Tradition and often described as its highest point. It was written by the prophets and apostles in human language, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and collected, edited, and canonized by the Church. Above all, the Bible is a faith document.

The Integrity of Scripture
Because the Bible is a faith document, we must respect its integrity as the final revelation of the Orthodox Christian faith. We do not recognize any other writings as canonical Scriptures other than those listed below. Though the Bible does not constitute an all-sufficient summary of revelation, no new revelation has been given. Even if another document were to be unearthed which scholars all agreed came from the hand of Paul or Moses, it would not be added to the canon. Likewise, if an existing part of the canon were undeniably proven not to be from its traditionally ascribed author, it would not be removed from the canon.

Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed

The Creed in mosaic at Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Cathedral (New York, New York)

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (also called the Nicene Creed, the Symbol of Faith, the Pistevo, or simply the Creed) is that creed formulated at the First and Second Ecumenical Councils. It was defined by the Holy Fathers of those first two councils (held in Nicea and Constantinople, respectively) to combat various heresies: notably Arianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism (also called Pneumatomachianism), and Chiliasm.

Some scholars believe that the Creed promulgated by the First Ecumenical Council was based on an earlier baptismal creed used in Palestine (the Apostles' Creed), while others regard its more likely origin as being a creed issued early in 325 A.D. in Antioch, a so-called "Syrian Creed."

The Creed as it now stands was formed in two stages, and the one in use today in the Orthodox Church reflects the revisions and additions made at the Second Ecumenical Council. Some centuries later, the Roman Catholic Church attempted a unilateral revision of the Creed by the addition of the Filioque, thus being one of the causes of the Great Schism between Rome and the rest of the Church.

The Coptic church has a tradition that the Nicene Creed was authored by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, whose theology was instrumental at the Nicene council, despite his being only a deacon at the time.

Of all the Holy Traditions the following is an incomplete list of things inside the worship of The Orthodox Church that most people never even get to ask about. I hope you may desire to explore them.

Divine Liturgy (This is the central act of Christian worship designed for daily use, long before the scriptures were complete. This is a work that developed and was completed by the 4th-5th century. I have put an asterisk by items that are Apostolic.)

Liturgy of the Preparation
* Proskomedia
Liturgy of the Word
* Great Litany
* Antiphons
* Little Entrance
* Troparion
Thrice-Holy Hymn
* Epistle
* Gospel
* Homily
* Litany of Fervent Supplication
* Litany for the Departed
Litany of the Catechumens
Liturgy of the Eucharist
Cherubic Hymn
* Great Entrance
* Litany of the Completion
Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (used to be just the baptismal part as stated by Peter in Matthew 16)
* Anaphora
* Epiclesis
* Megalynarion
* Lord's Prayer
* Communion
* Dismissal
* Antidoron

Forgive me...

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

I also strongly believe in Apostolic Tradition. If we think back to when there was very little written word, most of the teachings of Jesus were delivered by word of mouth and by Apostolic Tradition.

One could not use 'Sola Scripture' as the Bible did not exist for quite a few centuries.

People had to rely on the Holy Spirit working through the people who were handed down the teachings of Christ and the early Apostles. This is why, as a Catholic, I strong believe in Apostolic Tradition being very much alive in the church today.

As we see here, interpretation was given via the Holy Spirit, not by 'Sola Scripture.

Acts 8:26-40

26 But an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert road. 27 And he rose and went. And behold, an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a minister of the Canda′ce the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of all her treasure, had come to Jerusalem to worship 28 and was returning; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless some one guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of the scripture which he was reading was this:

“As a sheep led to the slaughter
or a lamb before its shearer is dumb,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken up from the earth.”

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, pray, does the prophet say this, about himself or about some one else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this scripture he told him the good news of Jesus. 36 And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?” 38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught up Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azo′tus, and passing on he preached the gospel to all the towns till he came to Caesare′a.

rockytopva · Aug 9, 2017

For we Wesleyans, our holy tradition is to stay around the altar until the Christ came shining through the experience.

1. No heavy theology
2. No fancy terminology
3. No complicated liturgy

You simply hung around the altar until you got religion. And a good example of it is in the story below.. Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin, who received it around 100 years before I did in similar methods...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

...Quote...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

.../Quote...

Albion · Aug 9, 2017

Yes, that (the OP) probably is an accurate representation of what Eastern Orthodoxy teaches and believes.

The rest of us teach and believe something else.

Now what?

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 9, 2017

rockytopva said:
For we Wesleyans, our holy tradition is to stay around the altar until the Christ came shining through the experience.

1. No heavy theology
2. No fancy terminology
3. No complicated liturgy

You simply hung around the altar until you got religion. And a good example of it is in the story below.. Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin, who received it around 100 years before I did in similar methods...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

...Quote...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

.../Quote...

Is this where "Altar calls" came from?

Forgive me...

rockytopva · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Is this where "Altar calls" came from?

Forgive me...

It was originally called the 'mourner's bench' here in the Southeast. Then it became known as the altar. All of this was a result of the Wesleyan type revivals that started in the late 1700's.

rockytopva · Aug 9, 2017

rockytopva said:
It was originally called the 'mourner's bench' here in the Southeast. Then it became known as the altar. All of this was a result of the Wesleyan type revivals that started in the late 1700's.

The old Wesleyan mourners bench... You would hang around here until the Christ came shining through. If that was not the case they would tell you, no, you do not have it yet... Come back tomorrow night!

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Sacred tradition - Wikipedia

In Orthodox theology, Holy Tradition is the inspired revelation of God and catholic teaching (Gk. katholikos, "according to the whole") of the Church, not an independent source of dogmatic authority to be regarded as a supplement to biblical revelation. Tradition is rather understood as the fullness of divine truth proclaimed in the scriptures, preserved by the apostolic bishops, and expressed in the life of the Church through such things as the Divine Liturgy and the Holy Mysteries (Eucharist, baptism, marriage, etc.), the Creed and other doctrinal definitions of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, canonical Christian iconography, and the sanctified lives of godly men and women (the Saints). (They left out sacred music.)

According to the theological understanding of these Churches, sacred scripture is the written part of this larger tradition, recording (albeit sometimes through the work of individual authors) the community's experience of God or more specifically of Jesus Christ. Hence the Bible must be interpreted within the context of sacred tradition and within the community of the church. This is in contrast to many Protestant traditions, which teach that the Bible alone is a sufficient basis for all Christian teaching (a position known as sola scriptura).
............

Holy tradition for the Eastern Orthodox is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration, or subtraction. Vladimir Lossky described tradition as "the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church." It is dynamic in application yet unchanging in dogma. It is growing in expression yet is always the same in essence. The Eastern Orthodox churches do not regard tradition as something which accrues or expands over time. Rather, Orthodox believe (Holy T)radition is the faith which Jesus Christ taught to the apostles and which they gave to their disciples without any development or deepening in understanding of the faith. It is merely that faith once delivered as understood within the context of lived history.

Holy Scripture - OrthodoxWiki

The Holy Scripture is a collection of books written over multiple centuries by those inspired by God to do so. It is the primary witness to the Orthodox Christian faith, within Holy Tradition and often described as its highest point. It was written by the prophets and apostles in human language, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and collected, edited, and canonized by the Church. Above all, the Bible is a faith document.

The Integrity of Scripture
Because the Bible is a faith document, we must respect its integrity as the final revelation of the Orthodox Christian faith. We do not recognize any other writings as canonical Scriptures other than those listed below. Though the Bible does not constitute an all-sufficient summary of revelation, no new revelation has been given. Even if another document were to be unearthed which scholars all agreed came from the hand of Paul or Moses, it would not be added to the canon. Likewise, if an existing part of the canon were undeniably proven not to be from its traditionally ascribed author, it would not be removed from the canon.

Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed

The Creed in mosaic at Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Cathedral (New York, New York)

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (also called the Nicene Creed, the Symbol of Faith, the Pistevo, or simply the Creed) is that creed formulated at the First and Second Ecumenical Councils. It was defined by the Holy Fathers of those first two councils (held in Nicea and Constantinople, respectively) to combat various heresies: notably Arianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism (also called Pneumatomachianism), and Chiliasm.

Some scholars believe that the Creed promulgated by the First Ecumenical Council was based on an earlier baptismal creed used in Palestine (the Apostles' Creed), while others regard its more likely origin as being a creed issued early in 325 A.D. in Antioch, a so-called "Syrian Creed."

The Creed as it now stands was formed in two stages, and the one in use today in the Orthodox Church reflects the revisions and additions made at the Second Ecumenical Council. Some centuries later, the Roman Catholic Church attempted a unilateral revision of the Creed by the addition of the Filioque, thus being one of the causes of the Great Schism between Rome and the rest of the Church.

The Coptic church has a tradition that the Nicene Creed was authored by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, whose theology was instrumental at the Nicene council, despite his being only a deacon at the time.

Of all the Holy Traditions the following is an incomplete list of things inside the worship of The Orthodox Church that most people never even get to ask about. I hope you may desire to explore them.

Divine Liturgy (This is the central act of Christian worship designed for daily use, long before the scriptures were complete. This is a work that developed and was completed by the 4th-5th century. I have put an asterisk by items that are Apostolic.)

Liturgy of the Preparation
* Proskomedia
Liturgy of the Word
* Great Litany
* Antiphons
* Little Entrance
* Troparion
Thrice-Holy Hymn
* Epistle
* Gospel
* Homily
* Litany of Fervent Supplication
* Litany for the Departed
Litany of the Catechumens
Liturgy of the Eucharist
Cherubic Hymn
* Great Entrance
* Litany of the Completion
Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (used to be just the baptismal part as stated by Peter in Matthew 16)
* Anaphora
* Epiclesis
* Megalynarion
* Lord's Prayer
* Communion
* Dismissal
* Antidoron

Forgive me...

Having a creed is becasue you feel the scriptures
are not clear enough for us and you need to add
to them, and then repeating a creed is against the
teaching of the scriptures as well.

But it's popular at least.

Albion · Aug 9, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Having a creed is becasue you feel the scriptures
are not clear enough for us and you need to add
to them, and then repeating a creed is against the
teaching of the scriptures as well.

None of that adds up. As an affirmation of one's faith, we're supposed to recite the whole Bible? How does THAT makes sense? And where in scripture can we find a prohibition against Creeds?

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 9, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Having a creed is becasue you feel the scriptures
are not clear enough for us and you need to add
to them, and then repeating a creed is against the
teaching of the scriptures as well.

But it's popular at least.

The creed was created to combat various heresies: notably Arianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism (also called Pneumatomachianism), and Chiliasm.
by the same group who brought us the scriptures that would eventually become a bible.

Forgive me...

Goatee · Aug 9, 2017

I like the creed.

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
The creed was created to combat various heresies: notably Arianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism (also called Pneumatomachianism), and Chiliasm by the same group who brought us the scriptures that would eventually become a bible.
Forgive me...

I forgive you and all creed repeaters.
Avoiding creating creeds and repeating them every service was not my idea:

Revelation 22:18-19
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that...

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Mark 7:13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

Matt 6:7
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 9, 2017

SkyWriting said:
I forgive you and all creed repeaters.
Not creating creeds was not my idea:

Revelation 22:18-19
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that...

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Mark 7:13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

Matt 6:7
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

You didn't mind using it to sign on here as a Christian.

Forgive me...

Albion · Aug 9, 2017

Hmmm. But do you have any that prohibit Creeds or the recitation of them, SkyWriting? That was the question.

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
You didn't mind using it to sign on here as a Christian.

I've brought up the subject many times since then.
I allow many people their idiosyncrasies.

Noxot · Aug 9, 2017

adding to or taking away has to do with the spirit of the word, not the letter.

the fullness of the revelation has to do with God himself being full and not with what is revealed being all that there is.

1Cor 12:1-13:1 (YLT)
And concerning the spiritual things, brethren, I do not wish you to be ignorant; ye have known that ye were nations, unto the dumb idols--as ye were led--being carried away; wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit. And there are diversities of gifts, and the same Spirit; and there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord; and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God--who is working the all in all. And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit; for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; and to another faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healings in the same Spirit; and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues: and all these doth work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intendeth. For, even as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ, for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink, for also the body is not one member, but many; if the foot may say, `Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body; and if the ear may say, `Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where the hearing? if the whole hearing, where the smelling? and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed, and if all were one member, where the body? and now, indeed, are many members, and one body; and an eye is not able to say to the hand, `I have no need of thee;' nor again the head to the feet, `I have no need of you.' But much more the members of the body which seem to be more infirm are necessary, and those that we think to be less honourable of the body, around these we put more abundant honour, and our unseemly things have seemliness more abundant, and our seemly things have no need; but God did temper the body together, to the lacking part having given more abundant honour, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same anxiety for one another, and whether one member doth suffer, suffer with it do all the members, or one member is glorified, rejoice with it do all the members; and ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And some, indeed, did God set in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, afterwards powers, afterwards gifts of healings, helpings, governings, divers kinds of tongues; are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all powers? have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? and desire earnestly the better gifts; and yet a far excelling way do I shew to you: If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2017

Albion said:
Hmmm. But do you have any that prohibit Creeds or the recitation of them, SkyWriting? That was the question.

The list I posted about adding to the scriptures and repeating or chanting?
The contents of Holy Tradition. What ya got there?

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 9, 2017

.

Forgive me...

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2017

OrthodoxyUSA said:
.

Forgive me...

Naturally.

Albion · Aug 9, 2017

SkyWriting said:
The list I posted?

None of those verses says what you did, however. For example, the Apostles' Creed, the most widely-used of all Christian Creeds, adds absolutely nothing to the Scriptures; it is entirely a recitation of well-known Bible verses/information. I believe in God...Creator of Heaven and Earth...and in Jesus Christ, his son...who was born of a virgin, etc. None of that adds one iota to what is already in the Bible; therefore, the verses you referred us to do not answer the question.

The contents of Holy Tradition. What ya got there?

Well-Known Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Love to pray! :)

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Love to pray! :)

Love to pray! :)

The Librarian

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

The Librarian

anarchist personalist

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

Facilitator

Similar threads