Theosis: Partaking of the Diven Nature

mark kennedy · Jul 23, 2017

Someone was asking me what I knew about Theosis, concerned I think that it taught we become gods as a result of salvation. Certainly we are partakers of the divine nature:

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. (2 Peter 1:4)

Now the divine nature are what theologians call the communicable attributes of God. What becomes puzzling, perhaps troubling is it comes painfully close to the temptation of original sin, 'ye shall be as gods'. Certainly there is no problem with being in union with God in Christ; his righteousness, holiness and the full range of virtues often described in Scripture as the fruits of the Holy Spirit. That what sanctification is supposed to do. Where it starts getting bothersome are quotes like these:

“God became man so that men might become gods,” (St. Athanasius)

“All that God is, except for an identity in being, one becomes when one is deified by grace.” (St. Maximos the Confessor)

Looking for a viable source for the subject I found this:

I said, “You are gods,

And all of you are children of the Most High.” (Psalm 82:6)

This is a verse that most Protestants do not underline in their Bibles. What on earth does it mean—“you are gods”? Doesn’t our faith teach that there is only one God, in three Persons? How can human beings be gods? (Mark Shuttleworth. Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature. Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese)

I'm fully prepared to an exposition of the requisitional proof texts, that's no problem. What is your impression of this doctrine? In a lot of ways it seems pretty benign but does it step over a line here?

Grace and peace,
Mark

stuart lawrence · Jul 23, 2017

Well Paul tells us there are many gods in heaven and on earth. But he then goes on to say, for us there is only one God( the Father) 1cor8:5&6

Echoing Jesus words:

There is only one TRUE God, the Father john17:3

True being the important word

mark kennedy · Jul 23, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Well Paul tells us there are many gods in heaven and on earth. But he then goes on to say, for us there is only one God( the Father) 1cor8:5&6

Echoing Jesus words:

There is only one TRUE God, the Father john17:3

True being the important word

Ok, but what about this statement:

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? (John 10:34)

Jesus explained that it was because the word of God came to them. It's based on this passage:

I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
“Nevertheless you will die like men (Psalm 82:6,7)

Then there's this passage;

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)

stuart lawrence · Jul 23, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Ok, but what about this statement:

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? (John 10:34)

Jesus explained that it was because the word of God came to them. It's based on this passage:

I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
“Nevertheless you will die like men (Psalm 82:6,7)

Then there's this passage;

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)

Many were referred to as gods in biblical times. But they were not the one TRUE God. Nor was their being given the title God meant to indicate that
Many were referred to as Lord's also. But the Christian only has one true Lord, Christ

Noxot · Jul 23, 2017

there is one Lord and he said we are his body if we love him so what then are we? for most they tend to always find some kind of barrier to separate themselves somewhat from God even though being even slightly away from God is against Gods will. but we are not God because we have to have our own freedom to love God. when we love God we join with who we love and then we can be called gods and there is no difference in a finger and the rest of the body. but joining with God is theosis and not a false belief or legalistic justification. God wants us to be God, plain and simple, how else could he have an eternal love unless we are eternal? we have to be God for Gods sake, says love.

ladodgers6 · Jul 23, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Well Paul tells us there are many gods in heaven and on earth. But he then goes on to say, for us there is only one God( the Father) 1cor8:5&6

Echoing Jesus words:

There is only one TRUE God, the Father john17:3

True being the important word

I think in 1 Cor. 8:5,6 the many gods and lords, are those false idols that people worship. Not that there are MANY gods and lords in heaven or on earth. This speaks to Food Offered to Idols.

stuart lawrence · Jul 23, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
I think in 1 Cor. 8:5,6 the many gods and lords, are those false idols that people worship. Not that there are MANY gods and lords in heaven or on earth. This speaks to Food Offered to Idols.

For even if their are so called gods, whether in heaven or on earth....
1cor8:5

mark kennedy · Jul 23, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Many were referred to as gods in biblical times. But they were not the one TRUE God. Nor was their being given the title God meant to indicate that
Many were referred to as Lord's also. But the Christian only has one true Lord, Christ

The word is Elohim and it can mean God, which it usually does, or it can mean something like a judge, king or mighty one:

The plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, × exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), × (very) great, judges, × mighty. The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x). (H430 - 'elohiym אֱלֹהִים)

From the article in the OP:

Another passage of note is John 10:34–36. In a dispute with the Pharisees, Jesus refers to the verse quoted above, Psalm 82:6, where human beings are referred to as “gods.” The Jewish leaders accuse Jesus of blasphemy and are ready to stone Him for equating Himself with the Father (vv. 22–33). Jesus replies, “ Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),” then why do they label as blasphemy Jesus calling Himself God’s Son? Jesus is truly God’s Son, and we are gods because we share in His sonship. (Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature)

We are gods? I don't think I'm comfortable with that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

ladodgers6 · Jul 23, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
For even if their are so called gods, whether in heaven or on earth....
1cor8:5

1 Cor. 8:4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

stuart lawrence · Jul 23, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
1 Cor. 8:4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

I'm afraid I will have to put you on ignore. Debate is futile with people who try and reason as you are now

ladodgers6 · Jul 23, 2017

No need, I will debate with you, if you cannot get the theme of the passages.

mark kennedy · Jul 23, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1 Cor. 8:4-6)

Aside from Christ quoting Psalm 82:6,7, never are Christians told they are gods. The passage in the Psalm is saying, 'you are gods (Elohim) but you are going to die like men'. When Jesus calls the people who are trying to kill him gods, he's not saying this in a favorable way. That's why when someone speaks of a 'ye gods' look, they are talking about the reaction to someone who is just full of themselves.

When Jesus says he is the Son of God that is not a phrase unique to him, kings and high priests were refereed to as 'son of God', because of their authority, the only one who out ranks them is God himself. In Luke's gospel, everyone in the list is son of someone except Adam, Adam was son of God because he was created. Jesus was unique in that he was always the Son of God.

That's not what we are supposed to be talking about. We take on the divine nature and what our Orthodox brethren are telling us is that in a sense we become gods. This is how it's defined:

Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. (Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature)

That's what has me puzzled, 'deification', 'divinazation' and 'illumination'.

Der Alte · Jul 23, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Aside from Christ quoting Psalm 82:6,7, never are Christians told they are gods. The passage in the Psalm is saying, 'you are gods (Elohim) but you are going to die like men'. When Jesus calls the people who are trying to kill him gods, he's not saying this in a favorable way. That's why when someone speaks of a 'ye gods' look, they are talking about the reaction to someone who is just full of themselves.
When Jesus says he is the Son of God that is not a phrase unique to him, kings and high priests were refereed to as 'son of God', because of their authority, the only one who out ranks them is God himself. In Luke's gospel, everyone in the list is son of someone except Adam, Adam was son of God because he was created. Jesus was unique in that he was always the Son of God.
That's not what we are supposed to be talking about. We take on the divine nature and what our Orthodox brethren are telling us is that in a sense we become gods. This is how it's defined:

Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. (Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature)
That's what has me puzzled, 'deification', 'divinazation' and 'illumination'.

Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34 are often misquoted or quoted out-of-context usually trying to support Theosis i.e. man will become gods.

John 10:34-35
(34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Psa 82:6
(6) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Even as Jesus quotes Ps 82:6 God does not say to the Israelites, "You are gods." It is qualified Ps. 82:6 "I have said you are elohim" God only "said" they were gods. He did not make them into gods.

Psalms 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

If they were gods and had godlike powers how can they die like men? Also God was not talking to all mankind only them "unto whom the word of God came" Jn 10:35. But people who try to use vs. 34 to support Theosis ignore the context.
Psalm 82: 1 says God [Elohim] stands in the congregation of the mighty;[el] he judgeth among the gods. [elohim]. What is the congregation of "El" is it some heavenly council of gods? It is the nation Israel.

Jos 22:16 Thus saith the whole congregation of the LORD, [YHWH] What trespass is this that ye have committed against the God of Israel, to turn away this day from following the LORD, in that ye have builded you an altar, that ye might rebel this day against the LORD?
1Ch 28:8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD[YHWH], and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever.
2Ch 1:3 So Solomon, and all the congregation with him, went to the high place that was at Gibeon; for there was the tabernacle of the congregation of God [elohim], which Moses the servant of the LORD had made in the wilderness.
Neh 13:1 On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God [elohim] for ever;
Psa 68:10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God, [elohim]hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.
Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.[YHWH]

[/INDENT]

Shempster · Jul 23, 2017

I think he meant that we can be percieved as gods or let's say God-like if out thoughts and character are like His. Maybe it means some will look like God as their life mimics that of Yeshua's.
I think that the "Divine Nature" you speak of IS the deeper message in the bible that is overlooked.

ladodgers6 · Jul 24, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Aside from Christ quoting Psalm 82:6,7, never are Christians told they are gods. The passage in the Psalm is saying, 'you are gods (Elohim) but you are going to die like men'. When Jesus calls the people who are trying to kill him gods, he's not saying this in a favorable way. That's why when someone speaks of a 'ye gods' look, they are talking about the reaction to someone who is just full of themselves.

When Jesus says he is the Son of God that is not a phrase unique to him, kings and high priests were refereed to as 'son of God', because of their authority, the only one who out ranks them is God himself. In Luke's gospel, everyone in the list is son of someone except Adam, Adam was son of God because he was created. Jesus was unique in that he was always the Son of God.

That's not what we are supposed to be talking about. We take on the divine nature and what our Orthodox brethren are telling us is that in a sense we become gods. This is how it's defined:

Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. (Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature)

That's what has me puzzled, 'deification', 'divinazation' and 'illumination'.

Thanks for your comments my brother in Christ. Some the things we have in common with EOC is:

The inspiration of Scripture

- The two natures of Christ

- The historical uniqueness of Christ's death on the cross

- Christ's physical resurrection

- Our future hope of eternal life

- And all the early Christian creeds.

- Like Eastern Orthodoxy, we also hold in common the view that the rejection of the Trinity constitutes

heresy.

Where we parts ways is :

-They deny Justification of the sinner.

-Its through a synergistic approach

-They deny Original sin, and its only our personal sins we are guilty of.

-They deny the accomplished Works of Christ that save sinners.

-They deny the penal substitution of Christ

-They deny in a Wrathful God against sin.

-They deny a sinner is save without being Baptist in water.

-
- EOC reject the doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone. Rather, "theosis" (becoming

God) or the progressive transformation of people into full likeness to God, in soul and body, takes

prominence. Regeneration & sanctification is conflated as a part of justification of the sinner. In other words there is no Justification of the sinner, but a sinner working together with God in his/her salvation.

This is what I have found so far. Now I have been debating with another member of the East. Who says that the ultimate goal is to be like God's energy. Not God himself, but the energy; like the rays from the sun, and not the sun itself. Strange view, sounds borderline Gnostic.

Now Gnosticism was around just as long as the Eastern Orthodoxy. And threaten the early with extinction. But a few of the early Greek Father's refuted it.

ladodgers6 · Jul 24, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Aside from Christ quoting Psalm 82:6,7, never are Christians told they are gods. The passage in the Psalm is saying, 'you are gods (Elohim) but you are going to die like men'. When Jesus calls the people who are trying to kill him gods, he's not saying this in a favorable way. That's why when someone speaks of a 'ye gods' look, they are talking about the reaction to someone who is just full of themselves.

When Jesus says he is the Son of God that is not a phrase unique to him, kings and high priests were refereed to as 'son of God', because of their authority, the only one who out ranks them is God himself. In Luke's gospel, everyone in the list is son of someone except Adam, Adam was son of God because he was created. Jesus was unique in that he was always the Son of God.

That's not what we are supposed to be talking about. We take on the divine nature and what our Orthodox brethren are telling us is that in a sense we become gods. This is how it's defined:

Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. (Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature)

That's what has me puzzled, 'deification', 'divinazation' and 'illumination'.

I am debating a with EOC member and this is what He wrote.

Arsenios said:
What do you think it was that he lost?
He was naked and ashamed and hiding from God...
He lost the Garment of Righteousness...
He was given the garment of sensuous skin...

Holy Tradition has Adam, upon his expulsion from the Garden, weeping at its gates for the rest of his "life"...
Because He KNEW what he had thrown away...
Theosis is not a guarantee in this life...
It is a Gift...
It too can be squandered...
But not easily...
And no one can take it from us, as Paul reports...

Arsenios

This gets stranger. I asked Him why didn't God create Adam in "Theosis" from the beginning? He said that God did create Adam in "Theosis". But that Adam lost it. And that "Theosis" is not guaranteed in this life, which confused me even further. Because if Adam is God, or Divine nature; whatever they call it, deification, divinization, illumination. How can Adam lose it or squander it away?

I asked him the next obvious question. How do we get "Theosis" back? He said its not guaranteed in this Life. Which confused me even further. So what's the goal in Eastern Orthodoxy then? If not "Theosis" in this Life.

Paul says in Galatians 2:19“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Union with Christ is our Life. Only in Him can we stand before God. Only in Him do we receive all the heavenly blessings. Only in Him do we find our Justification, Sanctification, and Redemption.

Regeneration, faith, conversion, renewal, and the like, often [in the Bible] do not point to successive steps in the way of salvation but rather summarize in a single word the entire change which takes place in a man." - Herman Bavinck

mark kennedy · Jul 24, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
I am debating a with EOC member and this is what He wrote.

What do you think it was that he lost?
He was naked and ashamed and hiding from God...
He lost the Garment of Righteousness...
He was given the garment of sensuous skin...

Holy Tradition has Adam, upon his expulsion from the Garden, weeping at its gates for the rest of his "life"...
Because He KNEW what he had thrown away...
Theosis is not a guarantee in this life...
It is a Gift...
It too can be squandered...
But not easily...
And no one can take it from us, as Paul reports...

(Arsenios)

This gets stranger. I asked Him why didn't God create Adam in "Theosis" from the beginning? He said that God did create Adam in "Theosis". But that Adam lost it. And that "Theosis" is not guaranteed in this life, which confused me even further. Because if Adam is God, or Divine nature; whatever they call it, deification, divinization, illumination. How can Adam lose it or squander it away?

I'm no expert but I have no doubt, that is mysticism. We shouldn't confuse that was some kind of an occult practice, rather the goal is not magic but 'enlightenment'. What I've managed to glean from my reading is it typically involves a 'dark night of the soul' followed by an 'awakening'. The reason that reading about it can seem like chasing ghosts in the fog is if you are not initiated by some means, you'll never get it. Many mystics have been very able Christian ministers, practicing the mystic arts is little more then an intense contemplation. This image of Adam at the gate weeping, it's an allegory reflecting some kind of a mystic journey.

Mind you these are my personal opinions, based on some light reading and long time interest in the subject matter.

I asked him the next obvious question. How do we get "Theosis" back? He said its not guaranteed in this Life. Which confused me even further. So what's the goal in Eastern Orthodoxy then? If not "Theosis" in this Life.

The closest I can get to this is the 'divine nature', to some it's the image of God restored perfectly, thus returning to 'Theosis':

We become united with God by grace in the Person of Christ, who is God come in the flesh. The means of becoming “like God” is through perfection in holiness, the continuous process of acquiring the Holy Spirit by grace through ascetic devotion. Some Protestants might refer to this process as sanctification. Another term for it, perhaps more familiar to Western Christians, would be mortification—putting sin to death within ourselves. (Mark Shuttleworth. Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature. Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese)

John Wesley, who Charles Spurgeon called 'prince of the Arminians' published the writings of the Eastern Church Fathers. He also admired St. John of the Cross, a Christian mystic and a famous Christian minister involved in strict 'ascetic devotion'. The reason I bring this up is because this is starting to sound a lot like the Wesleyan perfection doctrine. I have long believed Wesley had a strong eastern orthodox influence. He had his own version of the dark night of the soul, worried he wasn't saved because the fruit of the Holy Spirit, he didn't think, was fully manifest in his life. Of course we all struggle with that in our Christian walk and Theosis, or what is called 'entire sanctification', may well be nothing more then Christian maturity.

Mind you, I'm not trying to pontificate anything here, just trying to sort this out theologically.

Paul says in Galatians 2:19“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

When I die to sin as a believer, I am buried, and then raised to walk in newness of life as described in Romans 6. As far as looking at this as a religious practice I don't judge, who am I to judge someone else's servant. Invariably the Eastern Orthodox and Wesleyans emphasis that the means of 'ascetic devotion' are motivated and energized by grace.

On the narrow path that leads to the gate of life, there is are ditches on either side. A legalistic works righteousness on the one side and Licentious (grace is a license to sin) on the other. If you'll pardon the liberties of this analogy, I don't think works and grace are in conflict if you can maintain your balance. That's not to suggest it's easy, when Aristotle described virtue he described it as the balance between deficiency and excess, the balance, fulcrum or mean being where virtue was found. It is so difficult, he added, achieving it is almost rare.

Union with Christ is our Life. Only in Him can we stand before God. Only in Him do we receive all the heavenly blessings. Only in Him do we find our Justification, Sanctification, and Redemption.

I think it's safe to say, no self respecting Eastern Orthodox member or clergy would deny that.

Regeneration, faith, conversion, renewal, and the like, often [in the Bible] do not point to successive steps in the way of salvation but rather summarize in a single word the entire change which takes place in a man." - Herman Bavinck

What you are describing there is called justification. Justification is the moment of conversion where the person is born again by incorruptible seed:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:23)

Justification, theologians will tell us, starts the sanctification process. As we exercise the gift of grace and the new nature as it grows from a seed we diligently tend to our hearts like a farmer tends to his orchards or crops.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure but Eastern Orthodox Theosis and Wesleyan 'entire sanctification' may well be nothing more then Christian maturity. Now honestly, it's a little unnerving to hear about this deification and wonder if this is 'ye shall be as gods', from the garden of Eden temptation. My sense here is that whatever this is when you get to the bottom of it, the desire here is Christian maturity and communion with God at the highest level.

It's puzzling but I still think it comes down to a balanced approach and a sensitivity to where they are coming from with this.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Theosis: Partaking of the Diven Nature

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