Speak in Tongues - essential :

Waggles said:

And yes they confirmed Mark 16:15-18 and especially
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:20

Signs , wonders and miracles along with praying in tongues are the hallmarks of true Pentecostal
worship and obedience to the original apostolic gospel written of in all the epistles.
Not only can I experience what the lame man experienced, a miraculous healing and rising up to praise God, but I can pray for others; both for my brethren in the flock, and even for unbelievers.
Boldness before the throne of grace in faith praying in tongues by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Wonderful miracles. Marvellous testimonies to divine protection, divine providence, healings, miracles,
even unbelievers being blessed through fervent prayer for their needs.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:2-3

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We received the Holy Spirit by grace, through the promises of God, by our baptism and hearing of the Gospel which created faith in our hearts and by which we have been freely justified by God on account of the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. It is precisely because God has accomplished these things for us that the Apostle can say that we did not receive the Spirit by our own works of obedience, but by the hearing of faith.

Putting your faith in tongues, wonders, signs is faithlessness; instead put your faith in the objective truths of God's work and word: Jesus Christ and what He has done, trust in the Gospel, it is good news for you and for the whole world.

-CryptoLutheran

redleghunter said:

Marvin perhaps some have been harsh here but want to make sure you are not referring to me. 1 Corinthians makes it clear tongues is a gift. I'm not a cessationist. My line of questioning and exegesis is to point out Acts 2 is being stretched and wrested to shoehorn a theology that is not apparent in the text.

Every sign and wonder in Acts points to the spreading of the Gospel. We see this clearly in Acts 2-4.

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Are you saying speaking in tongues is for preaching to foreigners?

1miraclechild said:

Yet my Annointed Pastor, his Wife, & Several brothers & sisters in Christ with Whom I go to Church with Speak in Tongues Quite Often!

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Welcome to Pentecost. Praying in tongues is good and wholesome and builds up one's faith.
Indeed we are commanded to pray in the Holy Spirit throughout the epistles: for example;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their
own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ
unto eternal life.
Jude 1:18-21

Keep the faith, stay steadfast and sure; endure until the end and preserve your soul.
There are children of our Father in heaven by the Spirit of adoption (Pentecostal gospel) and
there are servants of Jesus who worship God through denominational tradition : Catholics,
Protestants, Orthodox and all that.

But the time is upon us when in these last of last days the chaff shall be separated from the wheat.
Those of us who willingly and joyfully pray in tongues, pray in the Holy Spirit, shall enjoy a great
Divine protection when this world is burning.
Jesus will demonstrate to the whole world the truth of the one and only gospel written of in the NT.
When this world is burning and the planet is shaking our testimonies to the gospel of Pentecost will
draw many others and non-believers to the gospel even right up to that last day.

3 And I entreat thee also, true yoke fellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life.
4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
Philippians 4:3-4

1stcenturylady said:

Are you saying speaking in tongues is for preaching to foreigners?

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It can be for the benefit of the Body as long as its meaning is made clear by interpretation/translation. Otherwise nobody benefits.

-CryptoLutheran

Waggles said:

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

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I remember growing up Pentecostal and these Scriptures were used to refer to speaking in tongues, the problem of course is that there's nothing in Scripture to indicate that meaning. Further, if this is the case it suggests that unless one is speaking in tongues one is not praying in the Holy Spirit. The consequences for that are disturbing, as it would indicate that not even our Lord Jesus Christ prayed in the Holy Spirit when He teaches us how to pray, or when He Himself comes before His Father.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

utting your faith in tongues, wonders, signs is faithlessness; instead put your faith in the objective truths of God's work and word: Jesus Christ and what He has done, trust in the Gospel, it is good news for you and for the whole world.

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But these are the blessings and the fruit derived from believing the gospel and living the gospel.
We are rewarded for our faithfulness with Mark 16:20 and just as the first century Spirit-filled church
enjoyed numerous miracles and healings and signs and gifts; so do we.

I was shown the scriptures from John to Jude.
I was troubled and prayed to Jesus about this "new" gospel that I as a practising Roman Catholic had
no knowledge nor experience of.
Jesus by divine intervention took me to a Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship - and I was
challenged by what I heard; especially the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit spoken out in order.
I prayed more to Jesus to confirm his approval of all this. I asked Jesus to show me that this is true.
I got water baptized by full immersion.
A month later I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke forth in new tongues as Jesus said I would.
I received the Spirit of truth and knew for myself that Jesus is true and that he is my Lord and God and Saviour. I experienced God dwelling within me that very afternoon.
Then began the miracles and healings, and other signs and wonders. These are not the gospel but
as it was in the beginning the rewards and blessings for believing the gospel.

Waggles said:

But these are the blessings and the fruit derived from believing the gospel and living the gospel.
We are rewarded for our faithfulness with Mark 16:20 and just as the first century Spirit-filled church
enjoyed numerous miracles and healings and signs and gifts; so do we.

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In Christ God has revealed Himself as being for me, a wretch and sinner. What greater blessing could there possibly be?

This is the lesson I've learned, having gone from the trappings of Pentecostalism to the pure preaching of the Gospel in Lutheranism. It was hard and difficult, but ultimately liberating, to hear the Gospel preached on its own. The difficulty was my conditioning by which I sought after God through my own efforts, and through the expectation of signs, or tokens of spiritual wonder; the naked beautiful scandal of the Cross hidden behind a veil and dark cloud of doubt, terror, and pietism.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

these Scriptures were used to refer to speaking in tongues, the problem of course is that there's nothing in Scripture to indicate that meaning.

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Simply false. Most untrue.
The epistles clearly state that a Christian can pray in their own language with understanding, and that
one can also pray in tongues (praying in the Spirit) that does not have understanding because it is
praying in mysteries unto God and no man understands it.

Furthermore, when Jesus and our Father speak to us at a worship meeting, wherein we exercise the
three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit, matters pertaining to Pentecost, praying in tongues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to to the body of Christ are elaborated upon and upheld by God (usually through
the gifts of prophesy).

Waggles said:

Simply false. Most untrue.

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There's nothing in the context to suggest glossolalia.

The epistles clearly state that a Christian can pray in their own language with understanding, and that
one can also pray in tongues (praying in the Spirit) that does not have understanding because it is
praying in mysteries unto God and no man understands it.

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The reason why, without translation, it is speaking mysteries to God is because unless there's someone there that can understand the language, say by the gift of interpretation, then God alone can understand it. But there's nothing there about it being some personal "prayer language".

Furthermore, when Jesus and our Father speak to us at a worship meeting, wherein we exercise the
three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit, matters pertaining to Pentecost, praying in tongues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to to the body of Christ are elaborated upon and upheld by God (usually through
the gifts of prophesy).

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If you believe that there are beings speaking to you that are not in agreement with Scripture and the historic teaching of the Christian Church, then that should be a serious red flag. Though I doubt it's demonic and that a more human, mundane explanation fits the bill, Occam's Razor and all that.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

There's nothing in the context to suggest glossolalia.



The reason why, without translation, it is speaking mysteries to God is because unless there's someone there that can understand the language, say by the gift of interpretation, then God alone can understand it. But there's nothing there about it being some personal "prayer language".



If you believe that there are beings speaking to you that are not in agreement with Scripture and the historic teaching of the Christian Church, then that should be a serious red flag. Though I doubt it's demonic and that a more human, mundane explanation fits the bill, Occam's Razor and all that.

-CryptoLutheran

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In a chapter all about speaking in tongues, what does I will pray in the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding mean if not personal prayer language?

1stcenturylady said:

In a chapter all about speaking in tongues, what does I will pray in the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding mean if not personal prayer language?

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Presumably in this case it means praying in a tongue, since the context is tongues. What's not there is a "personal prayer language", that's not in the text.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Presumably in this case it means praying in a tongue, since the context is tongues. What's not there is a "personal prayer language", that's not in the text.

-CryptoLutheran

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What is prayer if not personal?

1stcenturylady said:

What is prayer if not personal?

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Prayer can be very personal. But a personal, private "prayer language" is a completely foreign concept to the biblical teaching on tongues. The notion that every person is given their own special private language to speak between them and God is not a biblical position. The Bible never speaks of a personal "prayer language". When I pray it is quite personal, but English isn't my personal prayer language; English is a real language spoken by hundreds of millions of people across the globe. If I wasn't an English speaker, say the only language I did know how to speak was Spanish, and if I then by the power of the Spirit did start praying and speaking in English that would be the gift of tongues. English wouldn't here by my personal prayer language either because, again, English is spoken by millions of people.

The gift of tongues refers to the supernatural speaking of languages, not ecstatic gibberish. Language has a specific meaning in the context of human socialization, it conveys real meaning. Gibberish, babbling, these things are not language.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Prayer can be very personal. But a personal, private "prayer language" is a completely foreign concept to the biblical teaching on tongues. The notion that every person is given their own special private language to speak between them and God is not a biblical position. The Bible never speaks of a personal "prayer language". When I pray it is quite personal, but English isn't my personal prayer language; English is a real language spoken by hundreds of millions of people across the globe. If I wasn't an English speaker, say the only language I did know how to speak was Spanish, and if I then by the power of the Spirit did start praying and speaking in English that would be the gift of tongues. English wouldn't here by my personal prayer language either because, again, English is spoken by millions of people.

The gift of tongues refers to the supernatural speaking of languages, not ecstatic gibberish. Language has a specific meaning in the context of human socialization, it conveys real meaning. Gibberish, babbling, these things are not language.

-CryptoLutheran

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What you call "gibberish" a Chinaman might call Chinese. Unless you know every language ever spoken, how can you rightly judge?

1stcenturylady said:

You are responsible for what you believe. But contradicting God's written word, is irresponsible.

14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

The way you are reading this only the apostles would be able to speak in tongues, completely disregarding those people who became Christians and spoke in tongues. Was baptism also only for the 1st century? Look, I feel sorry for you if you can't believe, but the Holy Spirit works the same today as He did back then. I don't know if you don't believe in healing either, but it is also for those who believe.

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You are missing the point. Mark 16:20 elaborates on the purpose of the signs listed in v17-18. They were for confirming God's messengers and their message to others. Not for personal/private use as you claim, where it is a sign to no one.

You never addressed the other problems I listed with your 2 separate sign of tongues/gift of tongues theory in my previous post.

1stcenturylady said:

What you call "gibberish" a Chinaman might call Chinese. Unless you know every language ever spoken, how can you rightly judge?

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1) That's an ethnic slur.
2) Mandarin isn't gibberish.
3) Language carries syntax and meaning, even if one couldn't recognize what language is spoken, if one is familiar with the concept of language and how language operates in the real world then it's not terribly difficult to differentiate language from gibberish.

-CryptoLutheran

Marvin Knox said:

The Lord didn't command us to pick up snakes and drink glasses of poison.

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No, but people here are using Mark 16:17-18 to claim that speaking in tongues is for all believers. If that is so, then the other abilities in that list such picking up deadly snakes and drinking poison must also be for all believers. Are believers today immune from being bitten by poisonous snakes?

ViaCrucis said:

1) That's an ethnic slur.
2) Mandarin isn't gibberish.
3) Language carries syntax and meaning, even if one couldn't recognize what language is spoken, if one is familiar with the concept of language and how language operates in the real world then it's not terribly difficult to differentiate language from gibberish.

-CryptoLutheran

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English to a Chinaman sounds like dogs barking. Not all languages are pleasant to the ears.

Speaking in tongues has been so misinterpreted in many churches it honestly makes me sick to think about how many are being misled. Speaking in tongues does not mean you, through the Holy Spirit, acquire a sudden ability to speak a gobbledygook language that no one else understands. And so you see people walking around claiming the Holy Spirit has come upon them and they have now acquired this magical ability to speak in unintelligible languages. And for what purpose does this "gift" serve anyone?

No, speaking in tongues actually means the gift of speaking in other, even multiple, languages. For what purpose does this serve? A very good one, The ability to prophesy to people of all tribes and languages. In the time of Christ and the apostles this gift was absolutely essential in order to spread the word of God. The apostles would not have been able to spread the word of God if they didn't have the gift of being able to speak in tongues (ie many languages).
Acts 2:1-12

The Bible is also clear that if speaking in tongues there MUST be someone there who is able to interpret and if there is no one there to interpret that person should remain quiet in church and speak only to himself and God.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28

Tread carefully and study the scriptures wholly and completely or you too will be misled by this mockery.

ViaCrucis said:

If you believe that there are beings speaking to you that are not in agreement with Scripture and the historic teaching of the Christian Church, then that should be a serious red flag.

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The historic teachings of the church includes the following:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
3 But he that prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believes not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1 Corinthians 14:

38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:

God does speak to his children that's why there are three distinct voice gifts of the Holy Spirit
for exclusive use in formal worship meetings.