Is Love Really the Greatest?

spockrates

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I am probably not using the word sentient totally accurately, but yes that is the gist.
The intelligence and wisdom of God himself without the emotion of even an ant to give it a purposeful goal is insufficient to define what personhood means. Wisdom serves love.
No problem. I think, perhaps you might be mistaken. There are people who because of brain injury or a physiological disorder have no emotions at all. The clinical term for them is sociopath. Now few sociopaths are actually dangerous. Some are highly successful and excel as surgeons, business executives and the like. Some are adept at faking expressions of anger, happiness and sadness. Yet they are completely incapable of feeling any emotion at all.

I'm pretty sure you won't say sociopaths aren't human, so perhaps Love - while desirable and beneficial - isn't necessarily what makes us human?
 
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spockrates

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I cant answer that question.

I'm thinking God has at least three categories of traits:
• omni-benevolence, which is perfect love
• omnipotence, which is perfect power
• omniscience, which is perfect wisdom

It's the wisdom by which He knows, and it's wisdom by which we know. You know?
 
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SolomonVII

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No problem. I think, perhaps you might be mistaken. There are people who because of brain injury or a physiological disorder have no emotions at all. The clinical term for them is sociopath. Now few sociopaths are actually dangerous. Some are highly successful and excel as surgeons, business executives and the like. Some are adept at faking expressions of anger, happiness and sadness. Yet they are completely incapable of feeling any emotion at all.

I'm pretty sure you won't say sociopaths aren't human, so perhaps Love - while desirable and beneficial - isn't necessarily what makes us human?
No, I would still say that love is what makes us human.
Sociopaths are not completely bereft of love. Like all human traits, sociopathy is on a scale.
The kind of human that is bereft completely of love would fit into the category of monster than human.
On the other hand, when did this tendency to define out humanity as sickeness come into vogue?

I can imagine a world in which humanity is defined by sociopathy. Even if it did make it pass the stage where every baby is not aborted by its mother, even hell would come off as a dream vacation in comparison.
If you want to define person-hood as sociopathy, be my guest. I wouldn't want to live in a world like that though.
 
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spockrates

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No, I would still say that love is what makes us human.
Sociopaths are not completely bereft of love. Like all human traits, sociopathy is on a scale.
The kind of human that is bereft completely of love would fit into the category of monster than human.
On the other hand, when did this tendency to define out humanity as sickeness come into vogue?

I can imagine a world in which humanity is defined by sociopathy. Even if it did make it pass the stage where every baby is not aborted by its mother, even hell would come off as a dream vacation in comparison.
If you want to define person-hood as sociopathy, be my guest. I wouldn't want to live in a world like that though.

There's a condition that, studies show as many as 10% of people have. The condition called alexithymia, and people with it have little empathy, not because they don't care, but because their brains are incapable of distinguishing emotions from body sensations. A definition follows:

Alexithymia - Wikipedia

Alexithymia /ˌeɪlɛksəˈθaɪmiə/ is a personality construct characterized by the subclinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.[2] Furthermore, alexithymics have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.[2]Alexithymia is prevalent in approximately 10% of the general population and is known to be comorbid with a number of psychiatric conditions.[3]

I've known people with the condition and believe my eldest son has it. For an example of a person with the condition, there's a TV series called, "The Bridge" and one called, "The Tunnel" where the female protagonist, who is a police detective has the condition. More information:

A common misconception about alexithymia is that affected individuals are totally unable to express emotions verbally and that they may even fail to acknowledge that they experience emotions. Even before coining the term, Sifneos (1967) noted patients often mentioned things like anxiety or depression. The distinguishing factor was their inability to elaborate beyond a few limited adjectives such as "happy" or "unhappy" when describing these feelings.[24] The core issue is that alexithymics have poorly differentiated emotions limiting their ability to distinguish and describe them to others.[4]This contributes to the sense of emotional detachment from themselves and difficulty connecting with others, making alexithymia negatively associated with life satisfaction even when depression and other confounding factors are controlled for.[25]

While those with the condition have some idea what anxiety and happiness feels like, they have little or even no ability to feel empathy for others, since they have great difficulty making such emotional connections. Some are even incapable of empathy.

So yes, I agree it's a matter of degrees, the question remains:

Are those with severe cases of alexithymia, who are completely incapable of feeling empathy not human?
 
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spockrates

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@SolomonVII:

But since you mentioned abortion, I have an idea that might help. Consider a newborn infant: She is obviously human, but does she express love? Does an infant show empathy for the needs of others, or is she only needy? She's hungry. She cries. She cares not that mom is tired. She seems unaware of mom's feelings at all.

But does she expect (or have hope) to be fed? Does she trust (or have faith) mom will feed her if she keeps crying? If she does, then aren't Hope and Faith part of what make her human?
 
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spockrates

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@SolomonVII :

I think, though @W2L and @Galatea have arguments more convincing to me. We won't have need of Faith and Hope in heaven, so Love will outlast them both, which makes Love greater.

What do you think of this line of reasoning?
 
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Blackmarch

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1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So don't get me wrong! I know Paul is correct. Love is greater than Faith and Hope. But...

I'm not sure why, and would like to know. Thought it might be fun for me to take up the defense of Faith and Hope against Love and see how far I can get making the case that they are better than Love.

I'm pretty sure I'll loose, but hope to learn why Love is greater in the process. Anyone want to join the discussion and talk about why Love is greater?
it's the only thing i can think of that would keep an immortal superbeing from going suicidal once they know/see/done everything
 
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ViaCrucis

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1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So don't get me wrong! I know Paul is correct. Love is greater than Faith and Hope. But...

I'm not sure why, and would like to know. Thought it might be fun for me to take up the defense of Faith and Hope against Love and see how far I can get making the case that they are better than Love.

I'm pretty sure I'll loose, but hope to learn why Love is greater in the process. Anyone want to join the discussion and talk about why Love is greater?

Love wins, why?

JesusCrucified.jpg


In the Christian religion love is supreme.

In love God created all things.
In love God condescended in weakness and humility in the person of Jesus.
In love did Christ die for the whole world.
In love will God bring all things to their intended purpose in Christ.
God is love.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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spockrates

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Love wins, why?

JesusCrucified.jpg


In the Christian religion love is supreme.

In love God created all things.
In love God condescended in weakness and humility in the person of Jesus.
In love did Christ die for the whole world.
In love will God bring all things to their intended purpose in Christ.
God is love.

-CryptoLutheran
Thanks for saying. I have a question: How is God love? I mean, is the love that God is the love I feel?
 
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The Brown Brink

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1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So don't get me wrong! I know Paul is correct. Love is greater than Faith and Hope. But...

I'm not sure why, and would like to know. Thought it might be fun for me to take up the defense of Faith and Hope against Love and see how far I can get making the case that they are better than Love.

I'm pretty sure I'll loose, but hope to learn why Love is greater in the process. Anyone want to join the discussion and talk about why Love is greater?


Faith and hope are introverted.
They bolster our inner hearts.

Love does this, too, but it is ALSO extroverted.
It connects hearts.
Thus, it is greater.
 
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spockrates

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Faith and hope are introverted.
They bolster our inner hearts.

Love does this, too, but it is ALSO extroverted.
It connects hearts.
Thus, it is greater.

Not sure what you mean by saying love connects hearts. Please explain.

I can see that love cares for others, sometimes more than one cares for oneself, and this can create connections between the one who loves and the one being loved. Is that what you mean?
 
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The Brown Brink

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Not sure what you mean by saying love connects hearts. Please explain.

I can see that love cares for others, sometimes more than one cares for oneself, and this can create connections between the one who loves and the one being loved. Is that what you mean?

Yes.
 
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