God is not evil

CherubRam

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God is not evil.



Because of these verses in the King James Bible, people say," I could never serve a God that is evil".



Very few people are aware of this fact, and that is, that the King James Bible was translated by a secret society for their use; as a matter of fact it is also called the "Masonic bible".



Interpreting certain scriptures as God doing evil supports the Masonic philosophy of Dualism, that God is both good and evil.



Here in Jeremiah 8:8 is a prophecy; and it states that the word of God would be tampered with.


K.J.V. Jeremiah 8:8. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.



N.I.V. Jeremiah 8:8. "How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?



The word of God is divinely inspired, and as Christians it is your responsibility to see to it that you’re being taught the truth; yes, you, and not somebody else.




Psalms 5:4-5. For you are not a God that has pleasure in wickedness: neither will evil dwell with you.

5. The foolish will not stand in your sight: you hatest all workers of iniquity.



Job 34:10. Therefore hearken to me you men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.


Psalms 5:4-5 and Job 34:10 both show God doing evil is a contradiction to what is written.





Here is a list of scriptures below that are not translated correctly to support the Masonic belief of Dualism.


Exodus 5:22. And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Lord, wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me?


Exodus 32:12.Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from your fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against your people.


Joshua 23:15.Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.


Judges 9:23. Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:


1 Samuel 6:9. And see, if it goeth up by the way of his own coast to Beth-shemesh, then he has done us this great evil: but if not, then we shall know that it is not his hand that smote us; it was a chance that happened to us.


1 Samuel 16:14-23. But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

16. Let our Lord now command your servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

17. And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me.

18. Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him.

19. Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

20. And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

21. And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer.

22. And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight.

23. And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


1 Samuel 18:10. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.


1 Samuel 19:9. And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.


2 Samuel 12:11. Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto your neighbour, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.


1 Kings 9:9. And they shall answer, Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the Lord brought upon them all this evil.


1 Kings 14:10. Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]eth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.


1 Kings 21:21 and 29. 21. Behold, I will bring evil upon thee, and will take away thy posterity, and will cut off from Ahab him that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]eth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel,

29. Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.


1 Kings 22:23. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.


2 Kings 6:33. And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the Lord; what should I wait for the Lord any longer?


2 Kings 21:12. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.


2 Kings 22:16 and 20. Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:

20. Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.


2 Chronicles 7:22. And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.


2 Chronicles 18:22. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.


2 Chronicles 34:24 and 28. Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah:

28. Behold, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again.


Nehemiah 13:18. Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? Yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.


Job 42:11. Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.


Psalms 54:5. He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.


Psalms 78:49. He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.


Isaiah 31:2. Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.


Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


Jeremiah 4:6. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.


Jeremiah 6:19. Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened to my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.


Jeremiah 11:11,17 and 23. Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they will cry unto me, I will not hearken to them.

17. For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

23. And there will be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.


Jeremiah 16:10. And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt show this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God?


Jeremiah 18:8. If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10. If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

11. Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now everyone from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.


Jeremiah 19:3 and 15. And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears will tingle.

15. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.


Jeremiah 23:12. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.


Jeremiah 26:3. If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.


Micah 1:12. For the inhabitant of Maroth waited carefully for good: but evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem.



God created the concept of good and evil, but He Himself is pure and good.
 

Jane_the_Bane

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As a matter of fact, translation issues are not what renders the Biblical god one of the most inhumane and monstrous characters in world literature. The mere basics of the story suffice, regardless of style and language.
People are butchered by the thousands for reasons such as petty revenge, offended pride, or even just wanting to show off. YHVH makes Donald Trump look humble, meek, and rational by comparison.
 
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SolomonVII

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If one is to be proud of anything, be proud of the goodness of the God whom you worship. Let the trumpets war and the drums exalt the goodness of God. Zealous, uninhibited, passionate enthusiasm for the goodness of God is the Biblical message of where our pride, and our exhaltation, and our passions need to be expressed.
 
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CherubRam

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As a matter of fact, translation issues are not what renders the Biblical god one of the most inhumane and monstrous characters in world literature. The mere basics of the story suffice, regardless of style and language.
People are butchered by the thousands for reasons such as petty revenge, offended pride, or even just wanting to show off. YHVH makes Donald Trump look humble, meek, and rational by comparison.
Do you really believe you are qualified to judge God? The complexities of life is no simple matter.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Do you really believe you are qualified to judge God? The complexities of life is no simple matter.
Of course. Moral judgment is not a question of status or power, and always needs a point of reference.

A race of technologically superior aliens may see no more of an ethical dilemma in eating human beings than we do in eating cattle, and yet homo sapiens would be perfectly justified in perceiving them as evil.

Likewise, there is no value in hissing at the lowly serf for DARING to condemn the king, who declares himself righteous and just by virtue of his station. The serf, no matter how powerless or socially disadvantaged, would still be right to point out obvious injustice.
 
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GeorgeTwo

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Here in Jeremiah 8:8 is a prophecy; and it states that the word of God would be tampered with.

K.J.V. Jeremiah 8:8. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.



N.I.V. Jeremiah 8:8. "How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

You are misinterpreting Jeremiah 8:8:

I will give you accurate translations and then put Jeremiah 8:8 in context.

Jeremiah 8:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

Jerusalem Bible Koren translation

How can you say,
We are wise, and the Torah of the L-RD is with us?
Surely, the pen wrought in vain, in vain the scribes.
The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken:
lo, they have rejected the word of the L-RD;
and what wisdom is in them?

They have rejected the Word of God and not have destroyed it.
That is the point. It has to exist and they have to know it in order to reject it.

The RADAK (Kimchi) put it this way:

If G-d's torah is with you, of what use is it if you observe it not!!! He who used the pen to write did so in vain. . . likewise...the futility [shekher] of the scribes. They have written it in vain. Since you observe it not, it is as if it weren't written..... "LA-SHEKHER".....[this means] in vain as [in the verse] " Truly in vain have I heeded..."

They didn't heed Torah so their study and writing is in vain.

A Hebrew - English Bible,According to the Masoretic Text,and the JPS 1917 Edition

8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes.

9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken; lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

The Complete Jewish Bible, Hebrew translated into English

8. How do you say, "We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us"? Verily, behold it is in vain, he made a false scribes' pen.

9. Wise men were ashamed, they were broken and caught; behold they rejected the word of the Lord, now what wisdom have they?

Rashi comment: Wise men were ashamed: i.e., wise men like you. And what is the shame? Behold,they rejected the word of the Lord, now what wisdom have they?

Tanakh, new JPS according to the traditional Hebrew Text:

“How can you say, “We are wise,
And we possess the Instruction of the LORD?
Assuredlyh, for naught has the pen labored,
For naught the scribes!

Context:

Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

Again rejected the law, not changed it.

Jeremiah 9:12-14
English Standard Version (ESV)

12 (A)Who is the man so wise that he can understand this? To whom has the mouth of the LORD spoken, that he may declare it? Why is the land ruined (B)and laid waste like a wilderness, so that no one passes through? 13 And the LORD says: (C)“Because they have forsaken my law that I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice or walked in accord with it, 14 but (D)have stubbornly followed their own hearts and have gone after the Baals, as their fathers taught them.

They have forsaken God’s law, not changed it.

Jeremiah 26:4
You shall say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD: If you will not listen to me, to walk in my law that I have set before you,

The have the law intact, but they have rejected it.

Jeremiah 31:33
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The law still exists.

Jeremiah 32:23

And they entered and took possession of it. But they did not obey your voice or walk in your law. They did nothing of all you commanded them to do. Therefore you have made all this disaster come upon them.

They have the law intact, but they are not obeying it. They are rejecting it, not changing it.

Jeremiah 44:23
It is because you made offerings and because you sinned against the LORD and did not obey the voice of the LORD or walk in his law and in his statutes and in his testimonies that this disaster has happened to you, as at this day.”

If they did not possess the Law, or it had been corrupted by the scribes, how could they be held accountable for not walking in it?

If Jeremiah were accusing the scribes of changing the text of the Mosaic Law, why would he use one verse (verse 8) and then drop it.

What does the Messiah Jesus say?

Matthew 5: New International Version (©1984)
17. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 23: 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Jesus said nothing about Jews changing the law.
 
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Cearbhall

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I'm just curious, what group believes that God exists and is evil? Certain agnostics, perhaps? The Satanists who actually believe Satan and God exist, I suppose, though that's a minority among them.

The comment is usually made regarding the concept of the Abrahamic God, in the sense of "Even if he were real, I wouldn't think he was deserving of worship." Morality is subjective. According to the moral systems of some people and some groups, the deity portrayed in the Bible is evil.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I'm just curious, what group believes that God exists and is evil? Certain agnostics, perhaps? The Satanists who actually believe Satan and God exist, I suppose, though that's a minority among them.
Certain gnostic groups most certainly held that the God described in the Old Testament was either evil or else inept: a demiurge instead of the One True Deity, deluded into thinking that He was the Origin instead of an emanation, creating the flawed material universe and trapping some of the light of the One within it.


The comment is usually made regarding the concept of the Abrahamic God, in the sense of "Even if he were real, I wouldn't think he was deserving of worship." Morality is subjective. According to the moral systems of some people and some groups, the deity portrayed in the Bible is evil.
At this point, it bears repeating that "subjective" is not necessarily the same as "random" or "arbitrary" - even though there's plenty of that in terms of human cultures and their rules, ESPECIALLY in religious settings.
I'd say that we can arrive at some basic agreement as to what would constitute positive behaviour and what negative, even if only in rough outlines. Also, I'd say that the rules of conduct worth keeping and defending are the ones that can be substantiated by reason and social impulses, as opposed to: "that's what the king wants, and his word is law; who are you to question him?"
 
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Arthra

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As a matter of fact, translation issues are not what renders the Biblical god one of the most inhumane and monstrous characters in world literature. The mere basics of the story suffice, regardless of style and language.
People are butchered by the thousands for reasons such as petty revenge, offended pride, or even just wanting to show off. YHVH makes Donald Trump look humble, meek, and rational by comparison.


I don't think I'd go that far Jane... Consider that life in the deserts was not without cruelty and rapine.. Tribal warfare was constant and to survive in that environment was not an easy passage. On one hand the Bible does not flinch in describing atrocities and murder... depraved human conditions...on the other the Bible also offers spiritual and enlightened teachings. Would you like to edit the Bible and remove the parts you disapprove of? I think in this case both the depravity and the spiritual teachings have a place... Perhaps this is one reason as a "book" the Bible has held a high place for so long. The view of God also has changed over time..what was accepted a few hundred years ago would not be today. For me Leo Tolstoy in his "The Gospel in Brief" has provided an excellent and accurate account and he was excommunicated by his church.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I don't think I'd go that far Jane... Consider that life in the deserts was not without cruelty and rapine.. Tribal warfare was constant and to survive in that environment was not an easy passage. On one hand the Bible does not flinch in describing atrocities and murder... depraved human conditions...on the other the Bible also offers spiritual and enlightened teachings. Would you like to edit the Bible and remove the parts you disapprove of? I think in this case both the depravity and the spiritual teachings have a place... Perhaps this is one reason as a "book" the Bible has held a high place for so long. The view of God also has changed over time..what was accepted a few hundred years ago would not be today. For me Leo Tolstoy in his "The Gospel in Brief" has provided an excellent and accurate account and he was excommunicated by his church.


Well, of course it is not difficult to imagine that the tribal people of antiquity created a god in their own image: they were familiar with brutal kings who mercilessly snuffed out even the tiniest suggestion of insubordination - so they pictured the Supreme King to be just like that. A fickle micro-manager obsessed with glory and praise, executing people for even the slightest sign of disrespect and leading his subjects into genocidal warfare to snuff out all competition.
As a historical document, it has its place in our cultural history and literary canon.

But here's where the problem starts: many Christians do not read it that way. To them, everything they find in the Bible is GOD'S WORD, every syllable an undeniable fact and a proclamation that, for example, executing a man by stoning for picking up kindlewood on the wrong day of the week is perfectly just and perfectly good.

Of course I noticed the changing views on god(s) across the ages, and naturally I was not the first one to do so. There are even those who'd propose a linear progression, from venerated animal spirits to personal deities to disembodied sky-fathers to something else entirely. I also noticed that god(s) become more benevolent as we gain more insight into and control of our surroundings, and are able to alleviate all sorts of problems. In a world where every plague, disaster or personal tragedy was conceived of as supernatural punishment, and where an excruciatingly high childhood mortality was just an inescapable fact of life, deities were pictured far more cruel than in modern times.

For me, the question in this thread is: "Is the deity described in the Bible benevolent, or is his behaviour questionable at best"? I'm not talking about a hypothetical God who is just incorrectly depicted by brutalized desert tribes. I'm talking about the literary character as presented in the text, and the actions ascribed to him.

The way I see it, it takes more than just goodwill to look at those books and say: "Yup, perfect justice and goodness."
 
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MehGuy

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Any being responsible for this universe seems to be very questionable at best.

At this point, trying to save your favorite deity from unsavory literally descriptions seems like a pointless endeavor.

Personally though, a supernatural being who is able to own up to creating "evil" at least has my respect for being forthright and transparent.

Lol..
 
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danny ski

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Personally though, a supernatural being who is able to own up to creating "evil" at least has my respect for being forthright and transparent.

Lol..
The Judeo-Christian Deity does admit to creating evil. Some believers just elect to disregard that bit.
 
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MehGuy

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The Judeo-Christian Deity does admit to creating evil. Some believers just elect to disregard that bit.

Yeah, although it seems more like an old testament sentiment than anything.

Given how important the concept of "love" is in the new testament it's understandable how closer followers of those texts would shun or at least sweep under the rug the concept that he created "evil" himself. Lol.
 
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God isn't evil. A lot of it is just a poor understanding of God by the Bible writers.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head. God is not evil but humans have always found a way to justify their hatreds and violence and the perfect way to do that is to have a God who agrees with you.

Xenophanes --- "If horses had gods, they would look like horses."

The God of the Hebrews looks very much like a Middle-Eastern tryrranical king --- proud, jealous, vindictive, angry, judgemental, greedy and punishing.
 
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danny ski

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Yeah, although it seems more like an old testament sentiment than anything.

Given how important the concept of "love" is in the new testament it's understandable how closer followers of those texts would shun or at least sweep under the rug the concept that he created "evil" himself. Lol.
That's nice, but where does that leave the Christian case for the unchanging G-d? He mellowed down when He became Jesus' father?
 
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MehGuy

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That's nice, but where does that leave the Christian case for the unchanging G-d? He mellowed down when He became Jesus' father?

Kids will do that to you, lol.
 
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