Vatican sounding Anglican

Fr. Longenecker, who actually was an Anglican, thinks he hears the same old language he heard back then from Roma.

Why the Vatican Sounds Increasingly Anglican

Strivax said:

I can't see the problem here. Are you saying liberals and conservatives should not listen, discuss, even debate robustly? Should we just assume the hierarchy is always right, whichever position the hierarchy assumes? Should positions of integrity, of either wing, just submit to authority and power?

Best wishes, Strivax.

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The point is that Longenecker claims to have seen the language before, in his days as an Anglican, where all manner of Anglicans were supposed to be happy with each other. And the liberals vanquished everyone else because they were after radical change and not actual toleration. One has little option in today's Episcopal denomination but to submit to authority and power or to leave. Many choose to leave.

Paidiske said:

I think he's rather misrepresented the Anglican situation, though. Globally speaking, in Anglicanism, it is far from true that everyone else is "vanquished."

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Globally, you are right of course. I admit to having had American blinders on when I wrote that. The Episcopalian situation is that they are under sanctions for getting cart ahead of the horse. The situation in Canada is apparently quite similar but without sanctions. Seems similar in England. Different in Africa. Different in at least part of Australia. Maybe other areas.

Cosmic Charlie said:

ftr:

For reasons that are none of your business I run a shall we say, specially configured, open source browser. It's refusing to open the OP's site claiming it is attempting to insert and activate a JAVA-script into browser cashe.

I'm not impugning anyone or anything here. I'm just saying maybe this site's security is a little lax.

Thank you for you attention.

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I'm using Chrome and Privacy Badger. The offending link looks to be js-agent.newrelic.com, which don't bother me none because I've turned Javascript off and will manually turn it on for a site if I really want to do so. Oh, and Privacy Badger blocks it by default anyway. I only allow a few cookies, and Patheos is not allowed to set them on my computer.

If the Javascript request is from another domain than newrelic, please let me know. Not that I am responsible for Patheos, but I do occasionally pretend to understand this stuff.

Geech said:

Beat me to the punch, I was going to post this article but I thought maybe I'd wait until after Easter. Someone posted in the Reddit thread about the article in the OP, sharing another article here about "Selma Envy".

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Selma Envy was interesting even if along a slightly different tack. The similarity is that the writer of 'Selma Envy' writes about willingly being used as 'useful idiots' in the war to overturn marriage so they can look cool. The Vatican sounding Anglican is more about a failure to resist bad ideas out of a desire to get along with everybody, even the rebels who want to undo you. There's a significant myopia in that.

Especially for the Catholic Church having witnessed it among the Anglicans. We can pretend the gates of hell (the 'jaws of death' is an alternate possible translation) will not prevail against us. Probably true. Actually an article of faith. BUT, those same jaws of death of the marauding lion looking for someone to eat may maul us badly in the process of not quite killing us. Seems like we prefer to say "nice lion".

Jesus4Madrid said:

Having left the Anglican Church for Orthodoxy, it really pains me to read about this.

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I feel for you that you had to become a refugee. Glad you found a place. Fr. Longenecker was a refugee as well and found his place as a Catholic.

I would welcome traditionalist Roman Catholics in Orthodoxy, but I would fear for Christendom in general if they left or fell silent. Were the Roman Catholic Church to become like the Anglican (or European Lutheran churches), it would make life much more difficult for the rest of us.

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I get it. We have to stand. There are good signs around though. One is the tiny but compelling Anglican Ordinariate of former Anglicans and Episcopalians who are now fully Catholic. They use the old Prayerbook basically from Cranmer, but fixed in places to make it actually Catholic again. You owe it to yourself to check them out some day if you visit a city where they have a location. For more info see ordinariate.net

I would be happier if the Orthodox generally were a little bit more willing to stand together with us. Some Orthodox won't recognize my baptism and want nothing to do with us pagan Catholics. Not you personally of course, but why bother to hold the line for friends who see you as enemies? We ought to be friends. We ought to be there for struggling Anglican and Episcopalian refugees, which is what we did when Benedict started Anglicanorum coetibus

Most Anglocatholics seem to still be sheltering in place, with some others forming continuing Anglican groups, and some voyaging to Orthodoxy or swimming the Tiber. I expect those sheltering in place find it hard to act. The best we can do is show them it's safe to get up and run.

This thread, of course, is more about being awake enough to recognize that the same sort of folks who took over Anglicanism in the USA and Canada and England are present in the Catholic Church and making their bid for power. I thought that after John Paul II and Benedict, they were pretty much retired out of the system and replaced with better bishops and cardinals picked by John Paul and Benedict. Now we are supposed to embrace the diversity this old old guard bring, if the Vatican is to be believed.

Geech said:

For every article that frets about modernism, progressivism and liberalization, I think about the apparent growing numbers of young Catholics and soon-to-be Catholics who reject modernism and seek out the historic traditions of the Church, including the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. I take comfort in that.

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Hey Geech, have you got news for us?