Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!

Quasar92 said:

Did Christ also stop the sacrificing and grain offerings and set up the abomination of desolation also?

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Mar_15:38　 Then the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.


Heb_10:8　 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),

Heb_10:12　 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,


Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　
(Joh 10:22　 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.)　
(Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)　

Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.　
(Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　
Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　
Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　
Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.)　

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Matthew Twentyfour said:

Well Daniel's 70th week certainly wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD or during the first century because there was a 37 year gap from the time of Christ's dead at 33 AD to 70 AD.

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Why do you include the Temple's destruction in week 70? Jesus taught that the Temple's destruction was the direct consequence for their murder of him and his apostles (Matt 23:33-38/Lk 19:40-44; Matt 21:37-45; see also 1 Thess 2:15-16).

This represents the proper understanding of Daniel 9:26-27--i.e., the messiah's death in the midst of week 70 results in the destruction of the city and temple, within a generation of the completion of week 70.

Quasar92 said:

The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

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Nice presentation, although those of us who have been Christians don't really need to see a road map from the Order to rebuild to Jesus' death, we know that when Jesus died it must have been 49 years plus 434 years which means 483 of the 490 years/weeks have been fulfilled. Now we have one more week to come. But of course your presentation would be of great value to the unbeliever(s). (With the exception of a few believers who don't seem capable of understanding prophecy)

Next you get the guys who argue that the Prophecy "has to be" a consecutive/continual year prophecy, even though God divided the prophecy into three unique prophesies. A 7x7 = 49, a 7x62=434 which comes to 483 years. They never stop and use logic, why did God do the Prophecy that way!! God never does anything without a reason. So God divided it for a reason. It is a prophecy of three distinct periods of time. A 49 year Period. A 434 year Period. And finally there will be a 7 Year period, or Jacobs Trouble. The first 3 1/2 years will be the "Fake Peace/Security" that the Anti-Christ brings forth. The Last 3 1/2 years will be The Day of the Lord or Gods Wrath against mankind, Israel will be protected by God Himself in the Wilderness for 1260 Days. We don't know for sure that the 49 and 334 are consecutive years, and it probably isn't, even its it off by just one year or five, it doesn't matter. All that matters is the 62 Weeks ended with Jesus' death.

Quasar92 said:

The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

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This is exactly right. The Church age is basically the "Feast of Pentecost", when the "Last Trump" sounds (the Feast of Trumps) The Church will be Raptured and Israels 70th Week or Jacobs Troubles will begin. The Feast of Trumpets is followed by the Feast of Atonement (Israel must Atone), just as the prophesy foretold. Then we have the Feast of Tabernacle (Tabernacle means to Dwell with God) and Israel after Jesus returns, because they have ATONED will Dwell with God. Amen, God gave us a little pattern to look at in Leviticus 23. Of course the Church returns with Jesus Christ on White Horses.

Overall very nice presentation.

Quasar92 said:

FYI, Jesus never made any seven year covenant! Dan.9:27
is a binding agreement of the AC/man of lawlessness, of 2 Thess.2:4., between Israel and her surrounding neighbors. The covenant made by Jesus in Mt.26:28 is a covenant He made forever.

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It should be plain to anyone that the 7 year time frame is placed upon the CONFIRMATION, not upon the covenant itself.

BABerean2 said:

There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.

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Are you editing Scripture out in your Bible or quoting from a website that makes stuff up? The 7-year tribulation is a firmly established doctrine. This is a disgrace.

Waterwerx said:

Are you editing Scripture out in your Bible or quoting from a website that makes stuff up? The 7-year tribulation is a firmly established doctrine. This is a disgrace.

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Technically speaking there is no term "tribulation period" or 7-year tribulation in the bible. There is the term great tribulation (Revelation 17:14). The 70th week, I agree is forthcoming, 7 years in length.

I would refer to it as the 70th week... imo. Although the term 70th week is not in the bible either. The difference being that the first half (approximately) of the 7 years is not a time of tribulation, as I understand tribulation. It has to be a time which the world and the Jews in particular are saying and thinking peace and safety to fit what it says in 1Thessalonians5.

parousia70 said:

It should be plain to anyone that the 7 year time frame is placed upon the CONFIRMATION, not upon the covenant itself.

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Moses was the first to confirm the covenant for 7 years. And required at the end of that 7 years, on a cycle to be repeated, future generations confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant accordingly. Are you reading "new" covenant in the translation you are using for Daniel 9?

Douggg said:

Moses was the first to confirm the covenant for 7 years. And required at the end of that 7 years, on a cycle to be repeated, future generations confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant accordingly. Are you reading "new" covenant in the translation you are using for Daniel 9?

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It's THIS Covenant:
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Christ, THE SEED (cf:Gal 3:16) CONFIRMED that Covenant for "one 7"... the first 3.5 in His earthly Ministry before being cut off in the midst of the 70th week, and the 2nd 3.5 through the apostles' exclusive ministry to the Jews alone.

Jesus Christ Fulfilled the 70 weeks of Daniel. The 70 weeks run consecutive. Just like EVERY OTHER prophetic time span in scripture.

The 70th week began the moment the 69th week ended.
Exactly as the 70th year of Babylonian captivity began the moment the 69th ended.

Exactly as the 40th Day & Night of Rain began the moment the 39th ended.

Exactly as the "3rd Day" that Jesus rose on began the moment the 2nd day ended.

There in no Gap between the 69th and 70th week., which is 100% consistant with ALL prophetic time periods

Before we can determine when the 70 weeks ended, we first must assertain when they began:

Daniel prophesied in verse 25 that from the commandment to restore and rebuild Israel to the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. The question comes to "which decree is it?"

Here are the decrees:

The Decree of Cyrus - about 536 BC
* Ezra 1:2-4 Cyrus sends folks out to build the temple.
* The math: 536 - 483 = 53 BC.
* Guess what? No Messiah in 53BC.

The Decree of Artaxerxes - about 534 BC
* Ezra 4:17-22 Artaxerxes' decree here is actually to stop building and wait, not to start.
* Scratch that one.

Haggai and Zechariah Prophesy
* Ezra 5:1-3 Here Zerubbabel and Jeshua build, but no decree is mentioned.
* Scratch that.

Darius quotes Cyrus - about 520 BC
* Ezra 6:1-5 Darius simply quotes Cyrus, but in vv. 6-12, Darius sends out a decree.
* The math: 520 - 483 = 37 BC (some say 33BC...it's close enough I reckon).
* Maybe this was when Theudas popped up?
* Scratch this one, no Messiah.

Ezra 6:14
* "According to the commandment of God, of Cyrus, of Darius, and of Artaxerxes they builded and finished it."
* But look carefully at the decree above of Artaxerxes. His decree was to stop building and wait.
* So they couldn't have been talking about his decree.

Decree of Artaxerxes - 458 BC
* Ezra 7:12 - 26 Artaxerxes makes the decree.
* The math: 483-458 = 25, but there was no 0 AD nor 0 BC, so that makes 26 AD.
* What happened in 26 AD?

Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Messiah the Prince came and the Spirit, like a dove, descended upon Him. So began the ministry of Jesus Christ.
What is 483 + 7? 490 years. Simple.

Jesus' first coming and ministry on this earth, through to His death, burial and resurrection and subsequent 3.5 year Gospel message by the disciples to Jews alone fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Who is The Prince?
A big argument is over who this prince is. In the 1769 KJV, the first prince is capitalized - Prince and the second is not. Unfortunately, not knowing the Hebrew, folks err and make a doctrine based on the translators' take. What they may not know is that the 1611 KJV had both of them as "Prince." It was changed later. The YLT (a really good word-for-word translation of the Textus Receptus/Masoretic) has this:

Daniel 9:25-26
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Daniel 9:25 And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

Clearly, in the word for word, he equates Messiah the Prince with the Prince that shall come.

In the KJV, we find that "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city." Does the prince destroy the city? No, the people of the prince. In 70 AD, the people of the prince rebelled and went against the Romans. What happened? The city was destroyed. Did they do it directly? Well, no one knows exactly who torched the temple. But, either way, the actions of the Jewish people in Jerusalem brought down the fury of the Roman armies. Whether the Jews burned it or the Romans did is rather a moot point.

Daniel 9:26 - Another Look
"...and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Desolations are determined to the end of the war. At the end, when Jerusalem was destroyed is when the desolation ended.

From the YLT....

Daniel 9:27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

From the KJV...

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.
Jesus' and His apostles ministry to the Jews alone (most agree with this) was seven years...one week. "Confirm" as shown by the YLT, means "strengthen." This says "Covenant." Not treaty. Covenant. What covenant?

Look at Daniel 9 again...

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Note that Daniel does not say to all Israel. He says to them that love him and that keep his commandments. So again, what covenant? It's a covenant that Jesus merely strengthened. It is the covenant that He gave to Abraham.

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How would all nations be blessed through Abraham's seed? Through Jesus the Christ. Jesus Strengthened the Covenant.

Jesus strengthened the covenant that God had already made. Those believers in the Old Testament believed that God would do as He promised and provide His salvation, though they knew not the name of Jesus. Those who have believed since Jesus came, believed that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection paid the price for their (our) sins. It has always been the same. God has not changed. His mercy and grace has been extended in the same way, most folks, however, saw the physical or fleshly side and not the spiritual side and I must admit that I find it difficult somedays to see the spiritual too. I know we all do. The flesh wars against the Spirit all the time. Jesus confirmed the covenant that God had made with Abraham. In thee shall all nations be blessed. See also Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, and Luke 22:20.

He shall cause the sacrifice to cease...
In Daniel 9, we find that "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease." If this were the antichrist, as is taught by dispensationalists, then he has already been here because there has been no sacrifice in the temple for a long time. Not since 70 AD. Instead look at what Jesus' death meant. It meant that the covering of sins that the sacrifices did was no longer needed. He took all our sins upon Himself and once we accept that free gift, then ours sins are removed as far as east is from west.

The sacrifice ceased literally in 70 AD, but the need ended at Calvary.

"And for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Poured upon the DESOLATE, not upon the "Desolator".

Indeed, Jerusalem was made desolate. The Romans overran the city, destroying all that was in their wake. This has been done. History proves it.

ALL 70 weeks are behind us. There is no Gap

Seventy weeks are determined or cut off...

Strong’s Hebrew

neḥ·taḵ

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

determine

A primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree -- determine


You can't be cutting off at 70 weeks if you're cutting off at 69 and orphaning the 70th.

Waterwerx said:

Are you editing Scripture out in your Bible or quoting from a website that makes stuff up? The 7-year tribulation is a firmly established doctrine. This is a disgrace.

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Instead of bringing forth the condemnation, why don't you try showing some scripture.

There are many doctrines built upon the traditions of men. The 7 year tribulation is just one of many.

Explain the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

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parousia70 said:

Why do you include the Temple's destruction in week 70? Jesus taught that the Temple's destruction was the direct consequence for their murder of him and his apostles (Matt 23:33-38/Lk 19:40-44; Matt 21:37-45; see also 1 Thess 2:15-16).

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Because when His disciples asked Him to show them the signs of His coming and the end of the age, Jesus told them in Matthew 24:15 an abomination will be standing in the holy place (3rd temple) that the prophet Daniel spoke of.

Jesus was telling them Daniel's 70th week will occur at the end of the age upon His return and a temple will also be standing at the time of the AoD.

parousia70 said:

This represents the proper understanding of Daniel 9:26-27--i.e., the messiah's death in the midst of week 70 results in the destruction of the city and temple, within a generation of the completion of week 70.

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A week is not 70 years.

And there's a of 37 years from His death at 33 AD till the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD. Why do you not believe in a gap in Daniel's prophecy when there's evidence of a 37 year gap between 33 AD to 70 AD?

Waterwerx said:

Are you editing Scripture out in your Bible or quoting from a website that makes stuff up?

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ROFL! This is a winner! This is exactly what he does all the time. I even told him he makes things up a few weeks ago.

And when people tell him his teachings are not consistent with the bible, he gets upset and accuses them of following the teachings of John Darby over the bible.

BABerean2 said:

Instead of bringing forth the condemnation, why don't you try showing some scripture.

There are many doctrines built upon the traditions of men. The 7 year tribulation is just one of many.

Explain the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

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The angel Gabriel said it will be in a week. As far as I know, a week means 7.

I'm sure you think a week means 3 1/2, right?

Daniel 9:24-27King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

Because when His disciples asked Him to show them the signs of His coming and the end of the age, Jesus told them in Matthew 24:15 an abomination will be standing in the holy place (3rd temple) that the prophet Daniel spoke of.

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Please explain how a modern day stone building, built by modern day Christ rejectors, who have no covenant relationship with the Living God, would be any more of a "Holy Place" than the Islamic Dome of the Rock that stands there now.

A week is not 70 years.

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When did I say it was?

And there's a of 37 years from His death at 33 AD till the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD. Why do you not believe in a gap in Daniel's prophecy when there's evidence of a 37 year gap between 33 AD to 70 AD?

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Because the 70 weeks reached their completion with the stoning of Stephen and the freeing of the Gospel to the gentiles.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

The angel Gabriel said it will be in a week. As far as I know, a week means 7.

I'm sure you think a week means 3 1/2, right?

Daniel 9:24-27King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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Don't you know, God can't have prophesies that are divided by time according to human beings on this very message board ?

Even though there would no logical reason to give three time periods if the 490 years were consecutive, they still can't grasp that concept.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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The 70th week began at the start of His public ministry by being baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan. It was publicly announced from heaven by His Father.

Mat_3:17　 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

He and His disciples carried the Gospel to the Jews "first".
Why did Christ command that it was to be taken "first" to His own people?
Because it was a fulfillment of the 70th week.

Mat 10:5　 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.　

Mat 10:6　 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, was taken "first" to Daniel's people.


The Messiah was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, after 3 1/2 years of ministry to Daniel's people the Jews.

The Gospel continued to be taken to Daniel's people after Crist was cut off up until the time that Stephen reviewed the whole history of Israel and was then stoned.
Can you deny this fact that the Gospel was taken to the Jews after Calvary, up until the time Stephen was stoned?

For some strange reason you keep trying to ignore the fact that Christ commanded that the Gospel was to be taken "first" to the Jews.
Maybe it is because you are trying to make your doctrine work.

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This is clearly revealed in the 1599 Geneva Bible.

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

parousia70 said:

It's THIS Covenant:
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Christ, THE SEED (cf:Gal 3:16) CONFIRMED that Covenant for "one 7"... the first 3.5 in His earthly Ministry before being cut off in the midst of the 70th week, and the 2nd 3.5 through the apostles' exclusive ministry to the Jews alone.

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I think your answer is "no", "new covenant' is not in the translation you are using.

Douggg said:

I think your answer is "no", "new covenant' is not in the translation you are using.

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Therefore...?

Revealing Times said:

Don't you know, God can't have prophesies that are divided by time according to human beings on this very message board ?

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Just a little help with your English...prophesies is a verb. You want the noun, prophecies.