Who is a Jew or the nation Israel

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Shibolet said:
First there were the Hebrews and one of them called Abraham fathered Isaac and Isaac Jacob. From the three Patriarchs, came the Israelites. Many years later the Israelites split between Israel aka Ephraim and Judah. Then from Judah came the Jews. First were the Hebrews, second the Israelites and now we have the Jews according to that sequence; all within the same genealogy. Paul had no connection with this Divine arrangement. So, there is no place here for I Corinthians 14:21. Paul had lost his Jewish identity when he made up one of his own aka Christianity.

A person from (Judea) was called a Jew.

Shibolet · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
A person from (Judea) was called a Jew.

judea - Google Search

Even Jesus could not be because he was from Nazareth. Hence the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes was organized by his disciples on his behalf. The Jewish name was after the Tribe of King David aka Judah.

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Shibolet said:
Are you sure Paul was not responsible for the rise of Chritianity? Read the context to this verse of Acts 11:26. After a whole year preaching his gospel in the Synagogue of Antioch, the members started being called Christians for the first time. That's where Paul threw the foundation stone of Christianity.

God is the foundation stone, and Christ is the cape stone of Christianity. Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Shibolet said:
Even Jesus could not be because he was from Nazareth. Hence the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes was organized by his disciples on his behalf. The Jewish name was after the Tribe of King David aka Judah.

Nazareth was a city of Judea. Christ was born in Bethlehem.

Shibolet · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
God is the foundation stone, and Christ is the cape stone of Christianity. Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Wrong! Jesus could not as a Jew be the cape-stone of an anti-Jewish religion aka Christianity. And Isaiah 65:15 has nothing to do with the text above. Perhaps you made a mistake.

Shibolet · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
Nazareth was a city of Judea. Christ was born in Bethlehem.

Jesus was born in Nazareth and he became known as the Nazarene. The claim in the NT that he was born in Bethlehem was an attempt by the Church to score one more Messianic prophecy because of the fact that King David had been born in Bethlehem. Even Pilate knew that Jesus was from the Galilee. Hence his verdict on the top of his cross read INRI. Jesus, the Nazarene, king of the Jews.

Shibolet · Dec 25, 2016

AbbaLove said:
When Yeshua HaMashiach returns to Jerusalem for His "second citizenship" He won't need to fill out any government paperwork under the *Law Of Return to "make Aliyah"

Shibolet · Dec 25, 2016

gadar perets said:
Paul never lost his identity (Acts 22:3; 2 Corinthians 11:22; Philippians 3:5). You can try and steal it from him if you so choose. Nor did he make up "Christianity" or the derogatory name "Christians".

Paul acquired the name "Christian" because the main message in his gospel was that Jesus was "Christ" and all his disciples would be called Christians. (Acts 11:26)

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

Shibolet said:
Are you sure Paul was not responsible for the rise of Chritianity? Read the context to this verse of Acts 11:26. After a whole year preaching his gospel in the Synagogue of Antioch, the members started being called Christians for the first time. That's where Paul threw the foundation stone of Christianity.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The "church" was already existing when Saul arrived. In fact, the "church" (called out ones) was already formed back in Acts 2. The believers comprising that "church" were later mockingly called "Christians". However, even if it wasn't a mocking term, it did NOT denote the kind of Christianity we see today. The believers back then were all monotheistic Torah keepers, including Paul.

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Shibolet said:
Jesus was born in Nazareth and he became known as the Nazarene. The claim in the NT that he was born in Bethlehem was an attempt by the Church to score one more Messianic prophecy because of the fact that King David had been born in Bethlehem. Even Pilate knew that Jesus was from the Galilee. Hence his verdict on the top of his cross read INRI. Jesus, the Nazarene, king of the Jews.

After being born in Bethlehem they went the Egypt to live. After Herod died they moved back to Galilee.

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Converts to Christ were called Christians by other people. Before then, people were called converts to Judaism.
Judaize
Darby translation.
Gal 2;14. But when I saw that they do not walk straightforwardly, according to the truth of the glad tidings, I said to Peter before all, If *thou*, being a Jew, livest as the nations and not as the Jews, how dost thou compel the nations to Judaize? Or: How will you compel the nations to Judaize?

Aryeh Jay · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Aryeh Jay said:
You normally don’t move back to a place unless you left there.

Of course, there is a Bethlehem in Galilee too. As a matter of fact, it was there during the time of Jesus and quite close to the city of Nazareth.

They moved away from (Israel) and moved back again. I believe that it was Bethlehem of Judah that they moved from. Upon their return they went to Galilee.

Open Heart · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
I quoted bible scriptures.

The scriptures you quoted can be interpreted more than one way. Which is why you need Judges. Therefore you are right back where I placed you -- dependant upon the judges of Deuteronomy 17.

Open Heart · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
You may be a Jew, but my friend is a Hebrew.

Same thing. The distinction is only in your imagination.

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

Open Heart said:
The scriptures you quoted can be interpreted more than one way. Which is why you need Judges. Therefore you are right back where I placed you -- dependant upon the judges of Deuteronomy 17.

[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+7:11&version=NIV']Hebrews 7:11
[ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

1 Peter 2:9[/URL]
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Norbert L · Dec 25, 2016

ChavaK said:
As a side question.....why do so many non-Jews seem to desperately want to be considered to be Jewish?

I think it's because of wanting to be special and different in God's eyes. To be unique.

Bottom line for my own view, I don't really understand why such a thing is even necessary for non Jewish believers, given the compliment Yeshua expressed in Luke 7:9

Open Heart · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
Hebrews 7:11
[ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

What does ANY of this have to do with who is a Jew?

Shibolet · Dec 26, 2016

CherubRam said:
A person from (Judea) was called a Jew.

gadar perets said:
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The "church" was already existing when Saul arrived. In fact, the "church" (called out ones) was already formed back in Acts 2. The believers comprising that "church" were later mockingly called "Christians". However, even if it wasn't a mocking term, it did NOT denote the kind of Christianity we see today. The believers back then were all monotheistic Torah keepers, including Paul.

CherubRam said:
Hebrews 7:11
[ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Shibolet · Dec 26, 2016

CherubRam said: ↑
Hebrews 7:11
[ Jesus Like Melchizedek ] If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

I read what you said, CherubRam, and here is what I have to say to you: You ought to think twice before connecting Jesus with Melchizedek. Jesus was a loyal Jew in tune with God's Law down to letter. Melchizedek was a pagan Canaanite, priest of Molech who used to offer the firstborn sons of many Canaanite families on the fire to their god. And you, of course from Paul in Hebrews 7:11, are endorsing his Hellenistic decision to anoint Jesus as a priest after the order of Melchizedek. That's beyond commonsense. I am posting a thread on the truth about Melchizedek. I hope you will learn something from it.

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