Arguments for the Existence of God

Davian said:

You have yet to address the self-defeating nature of arguments for theism, as pointed out in #21.

You also made references (#446, #457) to "justice" in relation to your particular religion; it is my understanding that theism - Christian theism, in particular - is not about justice, but belief.

Do murderers go to "Hell"? Does being kind to others get you into "Heaven"?

Explain to me this "justice" that you allude to.

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Christian theism is about justice, belief, and all the rest of existence. A new thread in one of the Outreach forums would probably have better visibility.

Mediaeval said:

Christian theism is about justice, belief, and all the rest of existence. A new thread in one of the Outreach forums would probably have better visibility.

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Do you have an example of this justice?

dece870717 said:

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism. Romans:1 18-32 tells us that everyone knows that there is a God, that they have no excuse for not believing, and that people suppress the knowledge they have of Him in unrighteousness (love of sin).

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Really, how hard would it have been for the Bible writers to jot that down at the time?

Do you actually go through life confident in your belief that everyone that disagrees with you is wrong, and is simply in denial, and is without excuse? Every Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, those with no religion? What of those that adhere to denominations different that yours? Are they also deluding themselves?

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

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I don't get this. If I understand it correctly, anything goes as long as you believe. Why would one reject a religion on that basis?

That being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

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If I grew to hate my wife, treating her like she didn't exist would result in her taking the kids and house and leaving me with little.

If I hated the government and treated them like they didn't exist, eventually a number of well-armed individuals would arrive to advise me to change my behaviour.

I would ask you: If I tell you how you think, and I am wrong, am I still wrong?

dece870717 said:

... Nobody truly has free will...

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Huh? I thought free will was at the core of Christian beliefs. How can we sin if we don't have free will?

Mediaeval said:

Christian theism is about justice, belief, and all the rest of existence. A new thread in one of the Outreach forums would probably have better visibility.

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Been there, and it has been explained to me that Christianity is not about justice. Now, you can start that thread if you like, address it here, or abdicate.

And you have yet to address the self-defeating nature of arguments for theism, as pointed out in #21.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Huh? I thought free will was at the core of Christian beliefs. How can we sin if we don't have free will?

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Things which go against gods are still sins even if god created you such that you have no choice in sinning.

KCfromNC said:

Things which go against gods are still sins even if god created you such that you have no choice in sinning.

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That's just mean.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

That's just mean.

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You could blame god for predetermining that you would sin, but that would also be a sin. Even if you were predetermined to do exactly that.