Musings....

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nyj

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The Lord and His Mercy

I have been giving the following verse some thought:

First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. - 1 Timothy 2:1-4 (NAB)

If one reads the NAB notes on these verses, they see that it states the following : This marked insistence that the liturgical prayer of the community concern itself with the needs of all, whether Christian or not, and especially of those in authority, may imply that a disposition existed at Ephesus to refuse prayer for pagans. In actuality, such prayer aids the community to achieve peaceful relationships with non-Christians (1 Tim 2:2) and contributes to salvation, since it derives its value from the presence within the community of Christ, who is the one and only savior of all (1 Tim 2:3-6). The vital apostolic mission to the Gentiles (1 Tim 2:7) reflects Christ's purpose of universal salvation.

Now, compare that verse with the phrase There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

Now, there is no doubt that I believe both the Scriptures and this belief issued by the Catholic Church. However, how do the two go together? According to the Catechism, our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters are members of the Catholic Church, albeit separated, by baptism. That they contain the Truth, though in various phases of incompleteness, is evident by their fruits. So I'm not so much worried about them as I am about those who are not Christian.

Which is where Paul's comments to Timothy come into play. Are we as Catholics, responsible for the salvation of those who do not know Jesus Christ? Are we to pray for them, that God might have mercy on them and judge them based not on their ignorance, but on our own belief, given vicariously on their behalf?

I think, to be Catholic, is a greater burden than to not be Catholic. Finding ourselves in the Church established by Christ on Pentecost is a great honor, it is also a great responsibility. I don't say this out of pride, I say this out of concern for both myself and other Catholics. Are we going to be held to a higher standard come judgement day? The answer may very well be "Yes".

How so?

Take the parable of the servants and the talents in Matthew 25:14-30. There are three servants given talents. One was given five, one two and one one talent. What if the one given the largest sum of money is the Catholic Church? Do we not have a greater responsibility then, as opposed to the ones that have less?

Luke 12:48 (RSV) - Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required...

I look at the Catholic Church and I see that we have been given much. I have no doubt then that much is required of us. I believe it is our duty to pray for those who do not know Jesus Christ, and those who may never have that opportunity. Can we afford to fail them, and if we should not fail them, does failing them also mean we have failed ourselves and more importantly, failed God?
 

ZooMom

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Very good thoughts, nyj. :) Do I think that more is required of us as Catholics. I do, yes. I try not to say so, because as you have pointed out, it can be construed as prideful. We have indeed been given much. My thoughts run much the same as yours on this.


(BTW...are we still going ahead with the next section of the James bible study? I hated missing the first one. :( )
 
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Theresa

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Yes, I agree. That's why we can never be proud because with awesome privaledge comes awesome responsibility. Push comes to shove, this is the only thing that weighs heavy on my mind, oftentimes. How responsible am I for things that I fail to pray for? Here's an exerpt from my local Catholic newspaper:

"Many people, I think, have particular passages of Scripture that bother them. The passages may leave them feeling a little uncomfortable with themselves and, if they get as bothered as I do, might even wish they weren't part of the Bible at all. One verse that has been bugging me of late is James 4:17: "Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, commits sin." AARRGH! The sin of omission! So easy to commit, and so commonly committed. I'm sure many people besides me wrestle with facing their own inaction, and how easy it is to sit on the sidelines when we know we should be part of the action...." -"Our Challenge to put away fear and take action" by Taya Raine


Theresa
 
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Miss Shelby

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Which is where Paul's comments to Timothy come into play. Are we as Catholics, responsible for the salvation of those who do not know Jesus Christ? Are we to pray for them, that God might have mercy on them and judge them based not on their ignorance, but on our own belief, given vicariously on their behalf?

I don't know if we're responsible for their salvation, but yes I think we are to pray for them as they are severely in need of Christ's mercy.

On another board I said that I pray for Saddam Hussein's salvation. That did not go over well, but I do not care. It's not like I pray for the man or his likeminded evil counterparts  because I want to. I do it with a scowl on my face, but I do it anyway. We are commanded to love and pray for our enemies. We are not told that we should understand why.

Michelle
 
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Mephster

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I look at the Catholic Church and I see that we have been given much. I have no doubt then that much is required of us. I believe it is our duty to pray for those who do not know Jesus Christ, and those who may never have that opportunity.

well said.
 
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Kotton

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Thanks for thepost, nyj.

I think, to be Catholic, is a greater burden than to not be Catholic. Finding ourselves in the Church established by Christ on Pentecost is a great honor, it is also a great responsibility. I don't say this out of pride, I say this out of concern for both myself and other Catholics. Are we going to be held to a higher standard come judgement day? The answer may very well be "Yes".

This kind of thought came to me years ago. Why am I fortunate to have been born into a Catholic family. How would I respond if it had been different. Would I look for the fullness of Christ? Would the Catholic Church be shown to me? How much more responsible am I to help others find the TRUTH?

Why did God give me this great gift? We must share it!


Kotton :pray:  
 
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I'm rather surprised that the phase "There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church" would still be used today. What must our Protestant brethen think if they stumble on this?

Here is paragraph 1260 of the Universal Catechism of the Catholic Church. The topic is baptism, but the paragraph clearly contradicts the above phrase:

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.


I went to Catholic schools before Vatican II. We were taught that any man, even a totally uncivilized jungle native, can be saved if he follows his conscience. That's what we were taught over forty years ago, so this isn't a new idea.

Norman Boutin
 
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nyj

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Today at 09:17 AM empther said this in Post #8 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=692175#post692175)


1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

Bold emphasis is mine. Note that it does not state unequivocally, it does not state with 100% possibility, that those who live in "invincible ignorance" will be saved. It says they can and that there is the possibility. The question then must be asked, just how can they, and how can we raise that possibility. I think that they can, that the possibility exists, through the intercessory prayer of the Catholic Church.
 
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