If God is good, then why is there evil?

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The following post is adapted from a handout I designed on "The Problem of Evil" in Oct. 2002. Please forgive the rather colloquial style that remains in the writing. A large variety of sources were used as I developed my thinking for this lesson, and I would be glad to point interested persons to appropriate books and articles upon request.

The Big Question

Suppose you're at school or work and one of your non-Christian friends is talking with you about Sept. 11. What if he or she brings up the question, "If God is good, then how could something like Sept. 11 ever happen? It seems that if God is there at all, it just isn't possible that He's all-good and all-powerful. Because if He is all-good, He doesn't want evil to ever occur. And if He is all-powerful, then He could prevent evil from occurring if He wanted to. But there is evil! So what gives?"

What do you say? Observe how the non-Christian's thought is working: There is no problem if God is a weak god - because then perhaps he cannot prevent whatever humans choose to do. And if he's not a good God, then maybe he really doesn't mind evil going on after all. But the Bible is clear that God is both completely good and all-powerful. So how can there be evil?!

This is a famous intellectual issue - but it is also a deeply personal issue. How we answer this question has serious consequences for how we think and feel about God and His world, and especially how we act when evil confronts us face-to-face in our lives.

Given that God is all-powerful, surely He could have created a world that never has any evil in it, right? Yes. Even though humans are the source of evil and evil comes from our actions, this does not solve the problem. God certainly could prevent humans from sinning if He so desires. If He's God, then no one forced him to "allow" anything to happen that He didn't want to happen. The whole world from start to finish is orchestrated by His plan, and that must mean that even evil is somehow in His plan. But if He is good, how can evil - the opposite of good - be in His plan?! I take it the tension of this question is plain.

To the Bible

The Bible speaks to this issue in several places, most notably in Job.

In the beginning of the book, Satan wrongly accuses Job of serving God only for material blessings. God gives Satan permission to cause all sorts of evils to occur to Job and His family, knowing that while Job would say things for which he must later repent, he would remain faithful to God through it all. After Satan attacks Job's land, health, and family, Job starts to think that he is suffering unjustly, and demands an interview with God. God does grant the interview, but not exactly in the manner Job expected. Job 38:1-5:

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!

Notice the switch of who is asking the questions. Job thought he had the right to scrutinize whether or not God is in the right - God puts things in proper perspective: He is the Holy One, and Job is who will be measured against His perfection. God is the one with all knowledge and wisdom; Job's thinking will be tested by the standard of God's mind.

Also, Job is ignorant of exactly how God's mighty hand caused the existence of this world - so who is he to accuse God of causing unjust suffering in his life? Does Job really know that God as no good reason for his suffering? Certainly not. He does not know exactly how God created the world - bringing something from nothing (have you ever contemplated how God created something from nothing?!), and neither does he know exactly how God can use evil righteously.

Now, Job realizes that he can still trust that God created the world, of course - though He doesn't know exactly how God did it. Likewise, in the end, Job will realize that he must trust that God uses sin sinlessly - though, again, he will admit that he cannot understand exactly how that is.

Now to Job chapter 42:1-3. After two rounds of questioning where God lays Job's ignorance out on the table, we read on:

Then Job answered the LORD and said:

I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
You asked, "Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?"
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand

Job confesses that he does not understand how God is so wise, but he trusts that He is - just as He trusts that God created all things, even though he doesn't know exactly how He did it.

Mystery Means Admitting Absurdity?

Neither the book of Job nor any other place in Scripture ever fully answers the question as to why God ordains evil to be in the world - in the end, we are left in mystery. Then the question arises: what's the difference between believing the "mysterious" and believing the irrational (the absurd)?

Without going into too much detail, I might say that believing something is mysterious is not believing something irrational or against reason; it is merely admitting that God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and though all things ultimately are perfectly known by God, we do not know things fully as God does. We do not know anything as fully as God does! Is that really so surprising to us?

Now recall my original question. Suppose the non-Christian claims, "I can't believe in the Christian God because of all the evil in the world. A good God wouldn't let that happen. Think of Hitler's mass murders. Think of all those dying of starvation in third-world countries. Think of the terrorism of September the 11."

Before you answer the non-Christian, think about this: What would it take to for someone, this non-Christian for example, to know that God doesn't have a good reason for ordaining evil to go on in His world? To get to the point: Whose mind would they have had to search? Indeed - the mind of God.

Proving a negative is notoriously hard to do in any case. Could you prove that no purple-striped llamas exist? Well, unless you could simultaneously search every part of the universe at once, you couldn't absolutely prove that there are no purple-striped llamas. Maybe the purple-striped llama is a fast-moving beast and able to elude you if you search the universe section by section. So unless someone can search every nook and cranny of the eternal mind of God, they are not going to be proving a negative there either.

But still, someone could say that purple-striped llamas aren't likely to exist, right? It sure doesn't seem to me that there is any good reason to go out and believe that they do exist. Likewise, what if the non-Christian says, "Okay, I can't search God's mind, but it at least looks pretty likely that God's mysterious reason for evil is just a cop-out. No, I can't search His mind, so I don't know for sure. But why on earth should I go out on a shaky limb and trust Him about this when He refuses to tell me the good reason He supposedly has?"

Partial Answers

Even the Bible does not reveal the exhaustive depths of God's mind (after all, how could it? It would have to be a book with an infinite number of pages!), but the Bible does give us partial answers to this question about evil - and these may be encouraging!

Particularly note the final reason below. I think you'll agree that there is an answer to this non-Christian's objection that will show that going out on a limb and trusting God, even in the face of all types of evil and suffering, is actually the only sensible thing to do.

God takes wrong actions and then uses them for good (Rom 8:28). We don't always see how God brings good out of evil, though. At times, God uses evil to teach us patience and perseverance (James 1:1-3). He also redirects our attention to what is most important. And it is for our benefit when God disciplines his children (as a loving father does) when we are forgetful of Him. When we suffer, it enables us to comfort others (2 Cor. 1:3-7). Additionally, God uses evil to alert us so that we will not sin in the future. No doubt there are many other partial reasons as well. But I want to get to the final reason and highest argument.

What do you think is the best example of God bringing good out of evil?

Well, what is the most evil event in the history of the world?

Nazi Germany was deeply sinful. To be sure, Sept. 11 was evil. We could think of many other examples of really evil stuff, and no right-thinking person would claim that these events are less than abhorrent. But none of these are properly called the most evil event in history.

Think around 2000 years ago. A completely sinless and righteous man was betrayed and crucified. He had lived a perfect life - every second of it. Can you imagine loving God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your strength for every second of your entire life? Well, maybe you can imagine it. But, being born a sinner, you certainly cannot do it! Christ is the only person who ever truly deserved to live - and instead he was mocked, beaten, and killed as a criminal.

Now, what event is the greatest good of all history?

That God did not spare His own Son, but sent Him to bear the punishment for our sins (1 John 4:9-10). God is good to us when there is nothing in our hearts that wishes to serve Him, only desire to serve ourselves and our own idols. We 100% did not deserve this goodness, and that is part of what makes it so amazing.

Note the coincidence here: The greatest evil and the greatest good are one and the same.

Have you ever imagined how the followers of Christ felt as He was being crucified on the cross? Do you really think that "God is bringing the ultimate good out of this event!" was at the front of their minds? Not only was this event the most evil in history, but one can also see how it is an outstanding example of an evil event which seems from a human perspective to be inevitably for the worse, not for an ultimate good. But it was ultimately for good. Glory of glories, three days later the stone was rolled away from the tomb.

The Conclusion of the Matter

If God is able to bring this good - everlasting life - out of the greatest evil in the world, even when it did not seem possible for those watching Christ's crucifixion to fathom how this was "good", then how much more is our God able to bring good out of the evils we are troubled with in our daily lives. Perhaps some of you are experiencing pretty intense evils in your lives. I know I don't need to tell you what evil is; I'm guessing you are already painfully aware. Evil is real and evil is piercing, no matter what else may be true. But know that it is in God's hands, and He is a God with a great and loving plan, and He is working for all things for good.

Going back to our non-Christian's original question concerning Sept. 11: Seeing that the most abominable evil is orchestrated for the most wonderful good - then is it likely you can trust that God is able to bring good out of this particular evil? Likely?! There's no doubt about it. Think on the cross as the highest example. God will bring good out of evil!


Respond with your critiques/thoughts/suggestions/questions, if you like.
 

Andrew

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Why is there evil? Cause there's a devil and he's in charge.

2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world[Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
 
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FOMWatts<><

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Today at 02:22 AM Andrew said this in Post #4 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=674545#post674545)

Why is there evil? Cause there's a devil and he's in charge.

2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world[Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


AMEN!!! SOOO many times people forget this, EVEN ME! When bad things happen, people say where is God? THE ANSWER IS THAT HE IS IN HEAVEN, and HE gave the power to the devil to try and sway us to his side, but the funny thing is that the devil may win the battle...BUT GOD WILL WIN THE WAR!

BLessings,

FOMWatts<>< :clap:
 
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speechless

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Satan is the root of all evil. He rules the world and tempts people to sin and commit evil acts. God gave us free will; he doesn't control us or our thoughts/actions. The devil is the one who tries to seperate us from God, because he knows God hates evil.
 
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Reformationist

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As usual Placid, great post.&nbsp; You know, it's kinda funny (in a not so funny way) how many Christians hold so tightly to the concept of "free will" but when it comes to sinning they say things like "the devil made me do it."&nbsp; I often wonder, where was&nbsp;their free will then?&nbsp; Either way, God is in control, at all times, of all things.&nbsp; That's what sovereign means.&nbsp; Whatever power He might allow satan to exercise we must understand that God is much greater than anything we, or satan, can do.&nbsp; Satan is a tool.&nbsp; There is evil in the world for many reasons and we, as Christians, can rest in His promise that He works all things to our good.

God bless,

Don
 
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In life we have a choice whether to commit acts of evil... not necesarily from the devil but just defying god and if we choose to then horrible consequences will come from it.
As far as good people dying because of someone elses evil act i believe that they are held high in the kingdom of God and there is so much for them in the after life.

That is what i believe,
God Bless
 
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In my opinion there is evil in this world because God is a loving God. He loves enough to give people the freedom to choose their actions...good or bad.

Yekcidmij,

You aren't saying that God's love for His creatures causes Him to deny His own nature as the all-powerful One, making humans to be in ultimate control of their own actions, are you? I trust that this is not what you mean - note that the Bible speaks of God as the ultimate cause of all things, including evil:

"Who has spoken and it came to pass,
unless the Lord has commanded it?
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that good and bad come? (Lam 3:37-38)"

Of course, the Bible does not deny that humans have free choices (which are real secondary causes). Perhaps you are merely asserting that evil proceeds from the free actions of creatures and that they (not God) are morally responsible for the evil they do. That's true, but that fact alone doesn't alleviate the problem of evil - because God (assuming He is all-powerful) is still the ultimate cause of all things, and thus He is the ultimate cause of evil. Hence, after pointing out that creatures (Satan, then humans) are the source of evil and bear the moral responsibility for their sins, one must still wrestle with why God did not choose to create a world in which no creatures ever sin at all.

By the way, I'm not sure how God's love for us necessarily implies that He would give us the freedom to choose evil. In heaven, we will be made perfect and God's love toward us will be fully seen - yet we will be unable to choose evil in heaven, despite our continuing freedom to make choices.
 
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Blade

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Well if we read the bible it says Satan is the father of all lies and evil was found in him. He wanted to be higher than God and to be God. He got 1/3 of angels to go with him. God did not creat evil. The sad thing is satan knows his rights more then most christians know there own. Jesus said we have more power then satan and that (Jesus) has overcome the world. Satan has no power over us.
 
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Today at 01:20 PM Blade said this in Post #12

God did not creat evil.

So it wasn't God's Plan that satan fall from grace leading many angels astray?&nbsp; Did God just not see it coming?&nbsp; Don't you think God knew before He created satan that he would rebel and do what he did?&nbsp; If so, and God created satan anyway, then how can you not think having evil in the world, which is completely necessary for our sanctification, was not part of His Plan?&nbsp; How else besides struggling against the fallenness of the world can Christians ever hope to be conformed to the image of Christ?&nbsp; If all you ever encountered was goodness how is that going to help you put off your old man?
 
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Yekcidmij

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Hmm...

In response to Placid......

What I am saying is that God is not the cause of evil. The world God created WAS one without evil in it, but evil came about as a result of a choice that Adam made.

The Bible says God is a God of love and that he created us to love him. Assuming this is so, then to expirence real, genuine love, a choice to accept or reject God's love must exist. Free will to choose between good and evil was given to us and rejected by us.

Giving the choice of evil did not create evil, but it did create the possibility of evil. God is neither evil, nor did he create evil, but man has brought evil upon himself by choosing a way apart from God.

And yes, I am in control of my own decisions. If I chose to reject God, then I would be responsible for my actions. I could not give God the excuse, "Well, I wasnt really in control of my own actions....", I couldnt say it was God's fault.
 
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Yekcidmij ,

My second reply to you here will be heavy on Scripture for a reason: (1) God's ultimate control over all things (even evil) and (2) that humans make free, morally responsible, choices are both truths taught in the Bible. See references and explanations below. Hence, denying God's ultimate control cannot be a Biblical answer to the problem of evil.

The Triune God is the Director of All Hearts

Christ teaches that both good and evil proceed from the human heart (Luke 6:45). But that heart is under God's control: "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord; He directs it like a watercourse wherever He pleases." (Prov 21:1). The Lord is the ultimate director of all hearts, not merely the hearts of kings:

"The LORD looks from heaven;
He sees all the sons of men.
From the place of His dwelling He looks
On all the inhabitants of the earth;
He fashions their hearts individually
He who understands all their works." (Ps 33:13-15)

Moreover, not only does God ultimately control all human hearts, He also controls the steps we take to carry out the purposes of our hearts:

"In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps." (Prov 16:9)

The Bible Assumes Two Types of Causes Working Together

There are many examples in the Bible of God's ultimate control and free humans actions being shown at the same time. Take, for one illustration, Acts 2:23:

"Him [Jesus], being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death"

This passage clearly links the Jews' free actions (crucifying Jesus) with God's eternal purpose. God predestined Christ to be killed. Did God Himself do evil when He ultimately controlled Christ to be killed? No - the Jews are held responsible for killing Him. Free and morally responsible human actions and God?s sovereignty are held together.

"The Lord works out everything for His own end--even the wicked for a day of disaster." (Prov 16:4)

Again, it is assumed that the wicked are morally responsible for their wicked choices, not God. Nevertheless, Scripture is plain as day: the Lord works out everything, even those wicked actions. "Everything" is plain enough, yet it is as if wicked actions are mentioned specifically to guard us from the error that they are somehow outside of God's power.

Psalm 105 does not back down from attributing the Egyptians' hatred ultimately to God:

"The Lord made his people very fruitful;
He made them too numerous for their foes,
whose hearts He turned to hate his people,
to conspire against his servants."

When Gideon's army went to fight the Midianite camp, "the LORD caused the men throughout the camp to turn on each other with their swords" (Judg 7:22) Of course, the men who killed one another were morally responsible for their actions. At one level, they certainly controlled their sword slashing. Yet, at another higher level, it is obvious Who is ultimately directing their actions.

Over and over, the Bible teaches that God is sovereign. Hannah's prayer in 1 Sam 2:6-7 is no exception:

"The LORD brings death and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and raises up.
The LORD sends poverty and wealth;
He humbles and He exalts."

The Importance of a Nuanced View

When discussing God's omnipotence, Christians should never deny that humans are in control of their decisions. Humans are in control of their actions, but you cannot just leave it at that. The word "control" is vague. It could mean ultimate control or it could mean secondary control. The two meanings are quite different! One places humans at the level of the Creator, the other places humans on the level of the creature. The Bible is nuanced: God is in ultimate control while we are in secondary control. Hence, humans are responsible for their actions and God is still the primary cause of those actions. This is the standard view of all Reformed Christians.

In your last post in this thread, you wrote:

What I am saying is that God is not the cause of evil.

Similar to the situation with "Control", "Cause" could mean two different things here. Of course, the above statement is true if it means that God is not the morally responsible cause of evil. But it is quite obviously false if it means that God is not the ultimate cause of evil. As Lam 3:37-38 (which I quoted in my last post) says, both good and evil are from God.

Now, evil comes "from God" in what sense? If you believe what the Bible says is true, you have to say that God is the cause of evil in some sense. Now, would you rather say that (1) He is the ultimate cause, or (2) He is the morally responsible cause? Surely not option 2! And if you fail to distinguish between types of causes, then you are forced to lump both (1) and (2) together and thus remain with the unthinkable conclusion that God Himself commits sins.

Real Love Means What?

You also wrote:

The Bible says God is a God of love and that he created us to love him. Assuming this is so, then to experience real, genuine love, a choice to accept or reject God's love must exist

Concerning your argument above, you might want to deal with the objection I raised in my last reply: If God's love towards us means that we must be free to choose good or evil, shall God cut us off from His love when we enter everlasting life, as we will then only be able to choose good?

Further, do you really think that a loving God would give us ultimate control over our lives? That hardly seems a way to love us; it appears much more akin to sending us to wallow in our own iniquity. Even if you have a high view of our human ability to do good, you must still admit that human judgments are far from perfect and thus inferior to God's holy judgments. Isn't an infinitely good, wise, and holy God much better suited for directing our steps than we ourselves? If He truly loves us, how could He cast us from His own care to govern ourselves? If He is a God of love, then what could be wrong with Him being all-powerful? After all, His power could only be used to do us good! On the other hand, if He is not all-powerful and we hold some amount of ultimate power, then what assures us that God's good desires for us will be done? Could creaturely power hold back the hand of the Creator?!

It's worth pointing out that the Bible explicitly connects God's love for us with His ultimate control over us:

"In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will." (Eph. 1:4-5)

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose." (Rom 8:28)

"In Him we were chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works everything in conformity with the purpose of His will." (Eph 1:11)

Exhortation to Embrace Scripture

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I have taken the time and space to quote the Bible frequently for a reason. And I really do believe that the Word of God changes people. Even if you struggle with exactly how God could ultimately be in control while humans are still free to make real choices for which they are morally responsible, the first step is simply admitting that the Bible teaches both of these truths. If your understanding of what it means for God to be loving (or whatever else) is hindering you from believing the mountains of Biblical testimony (of which I have merely scratched the surface) to these two truths, then my humble suggestion is this: Do not lean on your own understanding, but acknowledge His Word. He may give understanding in time.

"All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing
He does as He pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth
No one can hold back His hand or say to Him, 'What have you done?'" (Dan 4:35)
 
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Jesus Is Real

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That God did not spare His own Son, but sent Him to bear the punishment for our sins (1 John 4:9-10). God is good to us when there is nothing in our hearts that wishes to serve Him, only desire to serve ourselves and our own idols. We 100% did not deserve this goodness, and that is part of what makes it so amazing.

Placid,&nbsp;

Amen.

I'm new&nbsp;here. If&nbsp;I might introduce myself a bit. :rolleyes: &nbsp;

I would share this with you about 'evil' and 'satan' and that is, that when God's Law is broken God lets the curse come---you break God's Law and God says 'sick'em' to the 'demons.'&nbsp;God could have done away with 'the rebellion' in heaven, when it occured and have crushed 'Iniquity' right then and there and He could have nipped it in the bud, per se--and one day He Will FOREVER, but in the mean time 'Satan is still God's Devil' keep in mind and&nbsp;He will prove every heart by everything He Controls. Which&nbsp;is EVERYTHING.&nbsp;God being God, that is! :) &nbsp;

&nbsp;
Prov 26:2 As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.

&nbsp;
"There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled; a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled. Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the Lord; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord: but lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor's hand, and into the hand of his king (Satan): and they (the powers of darkness) shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them" (Zech. 11:3, 5, 6). "Ephraim (the church), he hath mixed himself among the people (the world); Ephraim is a cake not turned. Strangers (powers of darkness) have devoured his strength, and he knoweth it not: And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the Lord their God, nor seek Him for all this" (Hos. 7:8-10).&nbsp;&nbsp;


The unsaved does indeed&nbsp;wonder about 'evil,' but they fail to look at the evil that's in their own heart.&nbsp;:mad: &nbsp;(Sadly, they are&nbsp;'mad' indeed and so ready to blame God or blame Him for His, some how, absence.)&nbsp;

Like I said the 'unsaved.' For until God gives them New Birth (John 3:3) they will keep wondering and never coming to the truth but rather hating the light and loving darkness--loving even Evil. Save, for God--Our wonderful Lord and SAVIOR who saves&nbsp;His Own to the Uttermost.&nbsp;


God knew about 9-11. For it was Him who gave me a dream about the very thing a little more than one hour before it happened.&nbsp;A person deplicted for&nbsp;each of the towers, which were burning from the shoulders only. One was burning then the other one was on fire from the shoulders only. The second person that&nbsp;got on fire was the one that fell first and just as the 2nd plane flew in&nbsp;their second target sure enough this building fell first. As God gave me in the dream.&nbsp;&nbsp;I told my husband this dream right before he left for work that morning, where sure enough he called me not too soon after to tell me the bad news and to watch the news. I wasn't aware of the dream until the first tower fell-----I think it was before the first one fell--I'm not sure, but I was on the phone with my step mom--and we were watching the same t.v. channel in amazement and in sorrow. But before they both were at ground zero the rememberance of the dream came back to my memory and the first one I told--where I understood NOW TO BE REGARDING THE 2 TOWERS--was my step mom. But I told her that I had thought that the first tower that got hit was the one that fell first and not as my dream showed. And she told me, 'no, connie, the first tower to fall WAS the second tower that was hit.' Just as the dream. Then I really--and that much more got in 'awe' of God's Wisdom and Foresight.

It was a trip--to say the least. So God knew this would happen. He didn't flip out in heaven at all. 9-11 happens to be my brothers birthday too. :cry: And he's not too fond of a particular arab, on&nbsp;account of the hurt that I--his&nbsp;sister&nbsp;has gone through with my son's Full Arab-Syrian father. My son is part Arab--Alan is&nbsp;16 living with his father from the age of 3 1/2 when&nbsp;the father&nbsp;took my son and the divorce courts up to Bloomington Ill--from Texas&nbsp;where he gave me NO VISITATION RIGHTS to visit freely my son. But leave room for God's wrath--I have first hand experience on this one. God's Will be done. I know this is one reason God gave me the 9-11 dream....maybe to show me that He knows the 'evil' that's happening ALL TOO WELL. And does He not tell His Own before He EVEN ALLOWS things to happen, let alone (as His Word teaches us) WHAT HE WILL DO PERSONALLY, shall He not tell His People? Yes, He&nbsp;Will! &nbsp;

Nite-NIte.
Blessing to All His!&nbsp;
 
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Jesus Is Real

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Yekcidmij,

Yes, but God is also a 'man of war' also, according to the Scriptures.&nbsp;Don't forget that.&nbsp; ;) &nbsp;&nbsp; Where it comes to His Children God is of Love and we must love each other as Jesus has loved us. Now his enemies&nbsp; :mad: ---the Wrath of God abides on them day and night. Now some wouldn't think that that is the God of all lovey dovey. So even His Wrath upon&nbsp;his enemies&nbsp;where The Lord is still In His Character and He--even in His Judgments--which&nbsp;can still be said of God, as in Scripture, that&nbsp;'God is Love' and that 'God is of Love.' Though this word is given to The Children if you read the whole book of 1Jo where it teaches us about God's Love and our love for the brethren.&nbsp;No man can understand that 'God is&nbsp;Love' except He first be given The New Birth from above.&nbsp;:)

Take care!&nbsp;
 
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Jesus Is Real

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27th February 2003 at 04:04 PM Reformationist said this in Post #13

So it wasn't God's Plan that satan fall from grace leading many angels astray?&nbsp; Did God just not see it coming?&nbsp; Don't you think God knew before He created satan that he would rebel and do what he did?&nbsp; If so, and God created satan anyway, then how can you not think having evil in the world, which is completely necessary for our sanctification, was not part of His Plan?&nbsp; How else besides struggling against the fallenness of the world can Christians ever hope to be conformed to the image of Christ?&nbsp; If all you ever encountered was goodness how is that going to help you put off your old man?


Great point, Don! :cool:

And thank God for the Intercession for the Saints by The Holy Spirit which&nbsp;is a part of our 'calling,' and 'predestination into His Purpose of being conformed to the image of His Son,' that&nbsp;God's Son (Jesus the Christ)&nbsp;might be the first born among many brethren. Rom 8:27-29

Bed time now.........really! :wave:
 
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Dryhtenes

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I try to look at these kinds of questions from a nonlinear timeframe point of view. Instead of looking at God as a history book, we should maybe realise that in many instances that God and His plan must be looked at as a whole (keeping in mind that we can't see the whole, yet). If such is the case in this instance, then one may look at evil, though not in the master design, serves a greater purpose: if not for evil, then we couldn't see the full potential of God's complete character. We wouldn't get to see His mercies, His justice, His wrath, or His love. If all we were to know was the good in this flawed (<-- Important word of the sentence) human state, then what need do we have of God?
 
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