Christians are Gods chosen people

JackC · Jan 18, 2015

Judeo Christians: God's chosen people

A Christian who makes images of Christ or any of the prophets is not a Christian.
Because they fail to observe a crucial law, one of the commandments.

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Jesus says that the Pharisees were ostentatious in their wearing of Tefillin and Tzitzit - Matthew 23:5 (NIV) reads:

"Everything they do is done for people to see: they make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long."

This refers to the wearing of Tefillin and tzitzits, two items the Torah commands followers of God to keep.

I wear tzitzits, there purpose is so that when you see them you remember the The 613 commandments of God. It's so your heart won't go astray, it serves as a reminder to always subordinate your will for the will of Gods.

The Torah states in Numbers 15:38: "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, that they shall make themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and they shall put on the corner fringe a blue (tekhelet) thread." Wearing the tzitzit is also commanded in Deuteronomy 22:12: "You shall make yourself twisted threads, on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself."

Jesus was an observant Jew. Jesus followed all of the commands, he knew more than any other Rabbi.

Jesus would have worn Tzitzits and Tefillin. We know this, and we also know that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law (Of God conveyed to Moses) but to fulfil it.

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

So Jesus isn't talking about getting rid of the Tzitzits all together, just not to have the equivalent of a human sized bible in your hand... Don't wear them to be seen, but wear them in humility and glorify God.

I was brought up Jewish, I was circumcised and had a Bar Mitzvah... I was taught Hebrew, attended the synagogue and studied the Talmud.

But I eventually saw how almost every Christian denomination is full of sin.
How gullible, conceited and uneducated the Christians are... How they are being exploited.

They are calling the priests "Father" which is a sin, nobody can be called Father but God in Heaven.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

This world is not majority Christian, because though they may identify as Christians they aren't actually doing what Christians should do.

Judaism is about serving God. It can be summarised into that.
When you go into Judaism, you have to follow everything or you aren't jewish.
You will be jewish by your family line, but to become a genuine Jew you have to keep every commandment. To be considered by the Ultra orthodox a Jew, you have to act in accordance with all of Jewish law... You have to live an observant lifestyle.
The ultra Orthodox have the final say, if you were to convert into Judaism they wouldn't accept any conversion from liberal Judaism, Reform Judaism, secular Judaism, etc... but only Ultra Orthodox. Anything other than orthodox is illegitimate.

But who are jews? Well, anybody who observes the whole of the law and accept the Validity of Jesus' divinity.

The Jews of Israel are not Jews, they may follow some of the law but don't follow all of the law... Only a believer in Christ can be observant of the whole law.

Job8 · Jan 18, 2015

JackC said:
Judeo Christians: God's chosen people...
The Jews of Israel are not Jews, they may follow some of the law but don't follow all of the law... Only a believer in Christ can be observant of the whole law.

Jack,

I believe what you are trying to get across is that Judaism (any kind) is unacceptable to God and only Bible Christianity is acceptable to Him. That is very true. However, you should take into account the fact that God has set aside the Old Covenant and established the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is for both Jews and Gentiles, and the Law (the Ten Commandments) is "written on the hearts" of those who have been born again. Those Ten Commandments were distilled by Christ into two commandments, and further distilled into one commandment -- the Law of Love (Rom 13:8-10). AND IT IS ONLY BY THE POWER OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT THAT CHRISTIANS CAN FULFIL THIS LAW.

As regards the Jews, during the Church Age God makes absolutely no distinction between Jew and Gentile outside or within the Church. All are sinners, and all need to be saved by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ. Because Israel (by and large) rejected Messiah, they were judged severely and scattered. Now there is a nation of Israel in existence since 1948.

God made immutable promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and David. These promises have not been nullified because the Church has come into existence. Once the Church is complete, God will deal directly with Israel, and establish the redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel on earth under Christ (Rom 11:26-36).

In brief God will have a "chosen people" in Heaven (the Church) and He will also have a "chosen people" on earth (redeemed Israel).

JackC · Jan 18, 2015

The Apostle Peter said so, for he told those who believe in Christ Jesus, "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (I Peter 2: 9,10).

Jesus told those who believed in Him: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." Everyone who has faith in Christ is chosen by Jesus. Was the whole Jewish race chosen by Jesus? No, absolutely not. He declared that the pharisaic Jews were of their father the devil (Matthew 23).

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29)

dcalling · Jan 18, 2015

I also thought the same about why some churches has image of Jesus or Mary in there, during the time when I was an atheist attending a bible group. They told me they view the Catholics in a negative way because of that, and I was greatly surprised, and realized there are some differences between Catholics and protestants.

All the churches I attend don't have any images in them. However none observes sabbath. After some study I decide to observe sabbath in somewhat Jewish way (i.e. no work other than church work). However it might not be necessary, as some in our church told me that sabbath of the OT way is for Jews only and for others all sabbath means is to remember the Lord and put the Lord first.

For now, I don't judge others based on how observant they are, I try not to judge at all. I think all we need to remember is that for Christians, we need to love others as ourselves, i.e. remember the initial love in us.

JackC · Jan 19, 2015

You are 100% right, I sure wish more Christians could see this. I observe Shabbat, Christians are Jews... We are God's people. The OT applies to those who serve God in its entirety, who follows every Mitzvah of God... That's a Jew. But a Jew must also have faith in Christ, because Christ is the true Messiah...

jsimms615 · Jan 19, 2015

Wasn't it Jesus himself who said that we are not to call another man "father" because we are all brothers in the faith.
The issue with the Pharisees that Jesus had with them is numerous. They were prideful, arrogant men. The law and following commands hardened their hearts. They didn't realize that if anyone is to be saved it must be by grace through faith. Our flesh is and always will be hostile to God. We cannot impress God by the good things that we do. We do them, out of love for him and because due to our love for God we want to do the things that please Him

Albion · Jan 19, 2015

JackC said:
You are 100% right, I sure wish more Christians could see this. I observe Shabbat, Christians are Jews... We are God's people. The OT applies to those who serve God in its entirety, who follows every Mitzvah of God... That's a Jew. But a Jew must also have faith in Christ, because Christ is the true Messiah...

So what are we talking about here, Jack--Jehovah's Witnesses, Armstrongism, Messianic Judaism, Seventh Day Adventism, what?

JLR1300 · Jan 19, 2015

Hey Jack... do you believe that you have to be circumcised to be saved?

kristina411 · Jan 20, 2015

JackC said:
Judeo Christians: God's chosen people

A Christian who makes images of Christ or any of the prophets is not a Christian.
Because they fail to observe a crucial law, one of the commandments.

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Jesus says that the Pharisees were ostentatious in their wearing of Tefillin and Tzitzit - Matthew 23:5 (NIV) reads:

"Everything they do is done for people to see: they make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long."

This refers to the wearing of Tefillin and tzitzits, two items the Torah commands followers of God to keep.

I wear tzitzits, there purpose is so that when you see them you remember the The 613 commandments of God. It's so your heart won't go astray, it serves as a reminder to always subordinate your will for the will of Gods.

The Torah states in Numbers 15:38: "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, that they shall make themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and they shall put on the corner fringe a blue (tekhelet) thread." Wearing the tzitzit is also commanded in Deuteronomy 22:12: "You shall make yourself twisted threads, on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself."

Jesus was an observant Jew. Jesus followed all of the commands, he knew more than any other Rabbi.

Jesus would have worn Tzitzits and Tefillin. We know this, and we also know that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law (Of God conveyed to Moses) but to fulfil it.

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…"

So Jesus isn't talking about getting rid of the Tzitzits all together, just not to have the equivalent of a human sized bible in your hand... Don't wear them to be seen, but wear them in humility and glorify God.

I was brought up Jewish, I was circumcised and had a Bar Mitzvah... I was taught Hebrew, attended the synagogue and studied the Talmud.

But I eventually saw how almost every Christian denomination is full of sin.
How gullible, conceited and uneducated the Christians are... How they are being exploited.

They are calling the priests "Father" which is a sin, nobody can be called Father but God in Heaven.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

This world is not majority Christian, because though they may identify as Christians they aren't actually doing what Christians should do.

Judaism is about serving God. It can be summarised into that.
When you go into Judaism, you have to follow everything or you aren't jewish.
You will be jewish by your family line, but to become a genuine Jew you have to keep every commandment. To be considered by the Ultra orthodox a Jew, you have to act in accordance with all of Jewish law... You have to live an observant lifestyle.
The ultra Orthodox have the final say, if you were to convert into Judaism they wouldn't accept any conversion from liberal Judaism, Reform Judaism, secular Judaism, etc... but only Ultra Orthodox. Anything other than orthodox is illegitimate.

But who are jews? Well, anybody who observes the whole of the law and accept the Validity of Jesus' divinity.

The Jews of Israel are not Jews, they may follow some of the law but don't follow all of the law... Only a believer in Christ can be observant of the whole law.

I don't know much about Tzitzits but I will look it up when I am done with this response. Pretty much everything you said is similar to my belief and understanding, I just dont know about Tzitzits. I will quickly address the image of God, the cross, etc. My dad had me doubt wearing a cross for years for your reasoning.
But to my the cross has always served as a reminder of the sacrifice Jesus made. It also reminds me of the pain he had to endure because of my sin. It reminds me that sin is the reason he suffered on that cross. It helps me to remember to put God first and consider the teachings of Jesus. I don't wear a cross at the moment but I have an infinity necklace that I sometimes wear as a reminder of Gods power.
So my view of the cross, from what I gather, is similar to your use of Tzitzits; since they both serve as a reminder but of different things. I don't bow to a cross, but I do hold it in my hands when I'm really needing a reminder.
I'm relatively new and actually with to follow the Sabbath laws, the OT laws that were not abolished in the New Testament (like Passover, why dont I see many celebrating Passover in protestant churches?) I want to fast and hope to do my first fast this weekend. I want to be righteous, as Jesus commands us to be. I don't know all of the laws though so if you would be willing to share I would be very thankful.
And yes, I know works are meaningless without Jesus and I shouldn't gloat or anything, I wish to follow the law because it says to in the Bible.-this last paragraph is for the comments of not being a show off, you don't need works comments and the like. Seems I get those a lot when I talk about this.

SistrNChrist · Jan 20, 2015

This is just my take on things, but I don't believe we necessarily have to convert to the Jewish faith and follow all their rituals to be considered one of Christ's chosen people. For example, the laws about animal sacrifice are obsolete now, since Jesus fulfilled that function once and for all when He was crucified. And some of the things mentioned in the Old and New Testaments have cultural meanings that no longer apply to the 21st century church...for example, when Paul writes that women are to be silent in church, the cultural context was that at that time, women and men sat on opposite sides of the church, and since women were not educated back then, every time they had a question, they would have to yell clear across the aisle to their husbands and thus disrupt the service. Nowadays, when women have the same opportunity as men to educate themselves about the word of God, we no longer have to disrupt the entire service to ask our husbands, fathers, etc. questions about what the pastor is preaching, so that no longer applies either. That being said, I do believe we should have Sabbath, which to me, is just choosing any day of the week, which for me would be Saturday, since it's the only day I have off each week, and just resting in God's presence by putting on some worship music and meditating on His word. And same goes for feast days...Jesus celebrated them, so why shouldn't we??

JackC · Jan 20, 2015

You can wear a crucifix, it just can't have jesus on it. I'm not talking about denominations, I'm talking about the 1 true way to follow God... The way it's outlined in the bible. Even the NT states that circumcision is when you take it upon yourself to serve every one of Gods laws. Tzitzits also work as a reminder like a wooden crucifix would, I myself use a plain wooden crucifix prayer beads to worship.

Brandonspapa · Jan 20, 2015

The Jews are GOD's chosen people. GOD knows who belongs to the 12 Tribes. The Church is the Bride of Christ. To believe that the Church is GOD's chosen people is Replacement Theology and is incorrect.

1watchman · Jan 20, 2015

Job8 made a good comprehensive statement worth meditating on. Israel was and is God's "chosen people" in an earthly sense, but all true saints of God then and now are God's chosen ones forever. This is a difficult concept for many saints (and completely incomprehensible to the unsaved souls), but it is that precious thought of "election", which means that by the "foreknowledge" of God He elected and preserved some to be saved, and knows full well who will and who will not come in all ages. That is rejected by some, but it is Bible truth.

fozzy · Jan 20, 2015

JackC said:
You can wear a crucifix, it just can't have jesus on it. I'm not talking about denominations, I'm talking about the 1 true way to follow God... The way it's outlined in the bible. Even the NT states that circumcision is when you take it upon yourself to serve every one of Gods laws. Tzitzits also work as a reminder like a wooden crucifix would, I myself use a plain wooden crucifix prayer beads to worship.

Oh please! Circumcision was an outward sign of having a circumcised heart or being born again. It has nothing to do with the law or keeping the law. We are born again when we submit or surrender to the promptings of the Holy Spirit who is leading all men to Christ. The law that we are required to keep is love which is written in the heart.

fozzy · Jan 20, 2015

Brandonspapa said:
The Jews are GOD's chosen people. GOD knows who belongs to the 12 Tribes. The Church is the Bride of Christ. To believe that the Church is GOD's chosen people is Replacement Theology and is incorrect.

Jews and Gentiles with circumcised hearts are God's chosen people. The majority of God's chosen people today are Gentile Christians who are born again. And when I say born again I mean the real thing that Jesus talked about not the trash that passes for Christianity today.

Brandonspapa · Jan 20, 2015

Jews and gentiles with circumcised hearts are the Church and are the Bride of Christ. Not GOD's chosen people. GOD will live among HIS chosen people (the Jews) in the land that HE gave them. The Church will live with Christ in the New Jerusalem. Two very different things. Replacement Theology is wrong, no matter how you wish to frame it.

fozzy · Jan 21, 2015

Brandonspapa said:
Jews and gentiles with circumcised hearts are the Church and are the Bride of Christ. Not GOD's chosen people. GOD will live among HIS chosen people (the Jews) in the land that HE gave them. The Church will live with Christ in the New Jerusalem. Two very different things. Replacement Theology is wrong, no matter how you wish to frame it.

If believing Jews and Gentiles comprise the church (and they do) what purpose what an ethnic nation of Israelites serve? It would have no purpose seeing the believing Jews are already part of the body of Christ. In the 1st century where just such a situation existed the believing Jews came out from Judaism and converted to Christianity. They did not stay with the ethnic nation.

Believing Jews and Gentiles comprised the chosen people in the old testament. There was always a remnant of faith within the main body of ethnic Israel. This is why Jesus said to Nicodemus - Art thou a master in Israel and knowest not these things? He should have known about the new birth because all thru the OT God said to Israel to circumcise your heart (Deut. 10:16, 30:6, Jer. 4:4). Believing Gentiles also comprised the chosen people with Abraham being the best example. He was not Jewish he was a Chaldean from the area of Babylon. He developed a faith based relationship with God and became the father of the faithful. We are required to have the faith of Abraham not his DNA.

An ethnic claim to being a Jew or one of the chosen people was worthless in Christ' day and it is worthless in our day. God is no respecter of persons. Those who accept Christ and receive his Spirit are accepted by him irregardless of ethnicity. The early church worked tirelessly to tear down the walls of separation between Jew and Gentile and the church of today is tirelessly building them back up. Splitting the body of believers into two groups with two different methods of Salvation. Romans 2:28,29 refutes dispensational ideas so well that I am amazed so many accept it.

Brandonspapa · Jan 21, 2015

GOD made his covenant with the Hebrews. HE said that the Heavens and all the stars would have to disappear for the covenant to end. HE promised to live with them in the Promised Land forever. Since the Church will live with Christ in the New Jerusalem, they cannot be the people living with GOD in the Promised Land. Replacement Theology is wrong.

fozzy · Jan 21, 2015

Brandonspapa said:
GOD made his covenant with the Hebrews. HE said that the Heavens and all the stars would have to disappear for the covenant to end. HE promised to live with them in the Promised Land forever. Since the Church will live with Christ in the New Jerusalem, they cannot be the people living with GOD in the Promised Land. Replacement Theology is wrong.

The old covenant did disappear and has vanished away. The new or everlasting covenant is still in effect. In this covenant Jesus is our great high priest and he came from Judah not Levi showing what covenant is truly binding. Replacement theology was taught by Christ so it is correct. He said behold your house is left unto you desolate...the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Sounds like a replacement to me! Dispensational theology is wrong. Your beliefs don't come from the bible they come from John Nelson Darby a Calvinist who instead of slicing up the atonement, sliced up the body of Christ.

parsley · Jan 21, 2015

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

How do you reconcile the pomegranates and cherubim the angel instructed to be carved for the temple?

I understand "carved image" to mean something intended to be worshiped, an idol.

Exodus 28:33
You shall make on its hem pomegranates of blue and purple and scarlet material, all around on its hem, and bells of gold between them all around.

1 Kings 7:18
He made the pillars, and two rows around on the one network to cover the capitals which were on the top of the pomegranates...four hundred pomegranates...On the top of the pillars was lily design.

Under its brim gourds went around encircling it ten to a cubit, completely surrounding the sea; the gourds were in two rows, cast with the rest. It stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; and the sea was set on top of them, and all their rear parts turned inward. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom; it could hold two thousand baths.

2 Chronicles 3
He overlaid the main room with cypress wood and overlaid it with fine gold, and ornamented it with palm trees and chains.

He made two sculptured cherubim in the room of the holy of holies and overlaid them with gold. The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits, and they stood on their feet facing the main room.

He made chains in the inner sanctuary and placed them on the tops of the pillars; and he made one hundred pomegranates and placed them on the chains.

I think the artwork was about what people intended to do with it.

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