The Blue Sapphire Stones..

JudaicChristian said:

Ah ha. There are strings attached. Good luck in conveying that to many Christians.

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OK, that was a truly funny remark!.

visionary said:

Here is an interesting thought...

Numbers 15:37 The LORD said to Moses, 38 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the LORD, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God.

Just as we are to have the Law in our mind and all the deeds of our bodies are to reflect the Law of God... So the tassels at the four corners of the garments are to help you remember. Blue.. like sapphire.. like the Blue Sapphire Stones of God's Law....to remind you of the Law of God.

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I've always been under the impression that the techlet thread was to represent heaven, as from where we stand on earth, that is blue, which color I think changed from antediluvian times.

But comparing stones in the Bible to our current names has been an ongoing debate. I have some older books on gemstones and the folk lore attached is something.

I think an assumption was made that because of the tzitzit thread being of the techlet or blue, that the sapphire should also be blue. Now this could be the case but a deep blue sapphire stone in a thickness enough to support the general size of the tablets I would think would be too thick and dark to read through to the other side.

There is a White Sapphire stone though and it is heat treated to get the clearness and clarity like a diamond. And from what I've read there was plenty of heat on that mountain!

As you can see from these two , they are practically as clear as diamonds and quite rare and expensive too.

Natural sapphires are found in Southeast Asia, the Indian subcontinent, parts of Africa, the Middle East, and in the Western states of America.

They also come in other colors, blue, purple, yellow, brown, and an interesting bit, they also can have an unusual property that causes refraction of light and are referred to as Star Sapphires. I used to have one of these myself and depending on how you held it in the light you could see deep into it and it would reflect from within a star pattern, much like a star lens on a camera will reflect the sun into a star pattern. If this were on a clear stone or even a lighter blue with these properties this might explain how the words could be read from either side.

Say like this one

Just some thoughts.

visionary said:

The Torah describes the writing as "inscribed from both their sides; on one side and on the other side they were inscribed..

Exodus 32:15 Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides, front and back.

What Did the Tablets Look Like? - The Details



Talmud, Shabbat 104a, Rashi ad loc

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Yes, I read that before, I was working on a model of the tablets for classroom purposes. We discussed how this might have been with the sapphire and the clearness and the reading on both sides.

From your link

Now there are two Hebrew letters, the ם and the ס, that are closed from all sides. The centers of these letters, Rav Chisda concludes, must have been miraculously suspended in place

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While that is true, those letters are post exile, surely Moshe did not use that script nor do I believe HaShem did. But we won't know until we see them.

The alef-bet from that time period resembles the Phonetician alphabet and has lots more letters that are enclosed. Eight if my count is correct. But I don't see any of the letters that could be misinterpreted and not read being inverted. The only problem might be deciphering between the house and the head (beit and resh) as these are very similar although that may go along with Rav Chisda's conclusion that there was revealed script and a hidden one.

yonah_mishael said:

OK, that was a truly funny remark!.

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He does come up with some doozies sometimes

The word "tell" is sipper, not saphar...

whatever they were made of, they were physical, since they could be placed in the ark of the pact.

yonah_mishael said:

The word "tell" is sipper, not saphar...

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and?
it doesn't have to be identical for there to be a correlation.

Hoshiyya said:

and?
it doesn't have to be identical for there to be a correlation.

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Identical to what? What was being referenced above was the root of the word, but not he word itself. It's like saying that halal and hillel are the same thing. They aren't. Hillel means "he praised." Halal means nothing. It is simply the root of the word (h-l-l) with vowels added to make it pronounceable.

yonah_mishael said:

Identical to what? What was being referenced above was the root of the word, but not he word itself. It's like saying that halal and hillel are the same thing. They aren't. Hillel means "he praised." Halal means nothing. It is simply the root of the word (h-l-l) with vowels added to make it pronounceable.

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Two words don't have to be identical for there to be a correlation of the two words.

"It's like saying that halal and hillel are the same thing. "

I absolutely disagree with that characterization. I don't think Vis, nor I, used the term "the same thing".

For example:

Shemen and Shmoneh are connected. How?
During Hanukka, the oil burnt for 8 days.

Another example:

קָ֑יִץ (summer fruit) and הַקֵּץ֙ (the end) are connected in Amos 8:2.
They're not the same word. But they are correlated from a spiritual-linguistic perspective.
It does NOT make sense from a secular-linguistic perspective. It only makes sense if you believe in God.

Another:

Tishrei and Reshit are anagrams.

The Rabbis teach that the world was created on Rosh Hashanah, that is to say, that the first day in Bereshit was the 1st day of Tishrei.

Oh please, let's not get off into a grammatical tangent, this subject is too interesting, thanks for bringing it up again Vis!

visionary said:

Going off what you said Lulav, the words of Ps really stuck out to me as I studied this verse this morning. The word, "declare", in Hebrew is the word, "Saphar", and one of the meanings of this word according to Strong's concordance, is "to be rehearsed". In other words...the things which happen in the heavens, rehearse God's glory!

The second word is the word, "firmament". The Hebrew Lexicon brings out that the firmament is like a "splendid and pellucid SAPPHIRE to which the stars were supposed to be fixed". It turns out the word for SAPPHIRE in Hebrew, "sapir" has the above mentioned word "Saphar" (declare / rehearse) as it's root!

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That reminded me of something I read a long time ago about the antediluvian world. I think I found it online, it was from Dr Baugh of the Creation museum so anyone that wants to dispute that can do so elsewhere.

The stars are in color, and the Biblical record states that God set the stars in the firmament. The ancients described the firmament as a vault above the earth, and the stars were placed in this vault. [These ancient myths speak of stars in a vault-like sky which appear much closer than they appear now. This supports the concept of the preflood model with a crystalline water-metallic hydrogen composite canopy]


The Biblical record states very clearly that God 'set' the stars in the firmament much as a jeweler would enhance a diamond by placing it on a background of black velvet. The word 'set' [Gen 1:17 above] is taken from the Hebrew word 'nathan'; it means 'to add and yield.' In other words, the stars are not physically placed in the firmament, because they are great distances away. But, as light from the stars penetrates the firmament, there is a very strong magnetic field in the middle; it is superconductive without any resistance to the flow of electrons. On each side is an electromagnetic field charged to a lesser degree in the crystalline water formation. What is then presented in a pressurized form on each side is a photomultiplier. Each photon of light which strikes the configuration is multiplied by ten because of the interaction in the atoms. On the earth side of the canopy, the stars were seen with ten times the photons that the light brought to the outer surface of the canopy. Before the Flood, the stars were seen by man as being about three times brighter than they are seen today. In other words, in the firmament, God set the stars, or added and yielded their dimensions in full color.


NASA has found that when a red filter is used in space, the stars appear in beautiful color. This is exciting because God put the stellar bodies in space for signs, for days, for months, and for years. We understand that by observing the rotation of the earth in relation to the movement of the sun and the moon, and other heavenly bodies, we can tell times. But now we can perceive that with the enhancement of the light, those before the Flood could, by the configuration of the stars, tell time at any moment. They would not need a Rolex watch; they would have something far better.
Before the Flood, Earth's inhabitants never saw total darkness. Research has indicated that the temperature would have been about seventy-eight degrees Fahrenheit during the day. Imagine superior man with a perfect environment, perfect food with complete nutrients, no harmful radiation from space, and disease microbes held in check. The pre-Flood world was, in our understanding today, paradise."
In the book of Job is revealed further information about God's awesome plan of orchestrated creation.
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