Millions of years ago/Evolution
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Please tell me "how" then. Other posters keep saying that evolution doesn't have an explanation as to "how".
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Yes, Life started. That is the biggest and highest hurdle that the TOE has to cross, yet they just say "that's off topic". Really? You cannot explain how life started, how it began to replicate right from the first spark of a glimmer it had to replicate or this monumental miracle of life would of had to spontaneously happened many times until one was able to replicate, or it would die, alone. Plus, it had to breath and or eat something or the energy that it expended in living would be consumed and the organism would die.
Does it not bother you that "it's off topic"? IF you cannot say how it started, all on it's own, then someone or something had to start it.
So, thousands of species evolved over billions of years, yet a few remained totally exactly the same over billions of years. Sorry, that chuck got stuck big time as I try to swallow that.
So artificially with intent we can create different kinds of dogs, different kinds of horses, cattle, wheat, beans, corn etc.....and cannot, no matter how hard we try, form a different species by combining different species..... FOR THAT, it has to be accidentally by environment....
That's another big chunk I can't chew enough to swallow.
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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Right, because evolution deals with the diversity, not the origin, of life.
This has been explained to you many times over -- there's a Texas proverb: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
And I don't have to -- the study of the origins of life are a different matter.
And you could call that something "God," if it makes you feel better -- it really doesn't matter.
Your personal incredulity is noted... and ignored.
Actually, we can create new species -- it's a lengthy process, and the end result would be a new species which can't breed with the original one... and who wants that? There's no profit in it for a breeder, so what's the point?
Again, your personal incredulity -- along with your mistaken assumption -- is noted.
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I am. I think that God left us two testaments, the Bible and his works, the universe in which we live.
For his own reasons, God had Genesis talk about a young earth, young universe, a global flood and a six day creation. Again for his own reasons, God had his works look like an old universe, old earth, no global flood and evolution as his tool for bringing about the diversity of life.
Since I don't think God's truth can contradict God's truth, the apparent contradiction may be that we simply don't know enough yet to reconcile these. It may also be possible that we are misunderstanding the role of Genesis. Most likely it is a combination of both.
Genesis, I believe to be a mythic story about a people's relationship with their one God. Genesis is truth, but not necessarily literal truth.
Many examples of this exist, the use of sagas to pass along culture. I have heard recordings of these being told usually in a poetry based chanting form to help memorize in a preliterate culture. I have (at least partially) read some of these.
In my heart of hearts, I feel that Genesis was not intended to be taken literally but is the powerful story of one God and his people. I very much suspect that the people of the times understood it that way.
That is just my belief and faith. That others see it differently is not a problem to me if that is part of their religious faith.
I do have however, major problems with those who take Genesis literally telling deliberate lies to teach that belief. I feel that this dishonesty is hurting Christianity and is shown to be one of the reasons given by young people who are leaving the church and not coming back.
This a well known problem in Christianity and has been discussed fairly often. If interested, I can give a couple of references.
So to answer your question, yes I am a theistic evolutionist. I feel I have good reasons for this but also realize that is just the form that my faith took and I recognize it as such and try to respect others' religious views on this.
I don't know who is right or wrong, Christianity is a matter of faith as Jesus taught and I am fine leaving it like that.
Take care,
Dizredux
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Paulos23
Never tell me the odds!
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Oh goody, a link full of misconceptions, word play, and PRATTs.
The first one is just loaded with misconceptions. The geologic column is a mental construction to show earths eras, it is not a physical representation of anything. Nor was it tied to uniformitarian theory or organic evolution. Those came later.
It just gets worse from there....
If that was true, you would see more fossils layered on top of each other in the same strata. This is not the case.
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And yet humans can not recreate a hurricane. Does this mean that hurricanes are supernatural?
We don't know what the correct conditions are, nor do we know how many reactions it takes before life does emerge. I don't understand why you expect life to emerge from a few liters in a matter of days when it may require many more reactions in a vessel the size of our oceans over a time span of millions of years.
Your expectations are not supported.
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Evolution does have an explanation of how life changed once it was here. The major mechanisms are random mutation, selection, and speciation. That is the how.
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Why would the ToE need to cross that hurdle when the ToE doesn't even deal with the origin of life?
Tell you what . . . give us a scientific theory that you do accept. Do you accept the Germ Theory of Disease?
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Occam's razor would lean towards, "I don't know". You haven't shown that life needed a supernatural deity to start it. All you do is point to some gap in our knowledge, and try to squeeze God in. This is known as a God of the Gaps, and it is bad logic, bad science, and even worse theology.
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For those who still think that ToE must explain how life started . . .
For the sake of argument, let's say that God did create a very simple DNA replicating cell that started evolving. That initial simple life then evolved into the biodiversity we see today.
What part of the theory of evolution would we need to change in order to incorporate this supernatural origin of life?
For the sake of argument, let's say that God did create a very simple DNA replicating cell that started evolving. That initial simple life then evolved into the biodiversity we see today.
What part of the theory of evolution would we need to change in order to incorporate this supernatural origin of life?
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Life did exist, so the requirements have been met.
Do you accept the Germ Theory of Disease?
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So, in your mind...If humans cannot do it.....it's supernatural?
Really? That statement is arrogant.
We must live in an extremely supernatural world.....
From what I understand, mathematically, the correct conditions are 1 chance in 10100,000,000,000.24. At least that is one insurmountable number that is given by many different scientists.
My expectations are not supported....your expectations are smoke in a hurricane. Supernatural as you believe.
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Nothing, if the DNA had all the information needed for all existing organisms.
Let's say God did create life. If that was true then couldn't everything else stated in Genesis then be true as well.
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Isn't that what you are claiming? If humans can't recreate abiogenesis here and now, then God had to do it?
Then why do you keep using that argument?
If you truly understood it, then you would know that there is no way to calculate the odds because we don't know what the simplest replicator is, how many possible pathways there are for abiogenesis, the complete list of conditions that must be met, nor how many places that these conditions have existed or exist now.
It is your argument that if humans can not recreate a phenomenon right here and now that God must do it.
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No single life form could hold all of the DNA needed for modern species. That is just silly.
The theory of evolution explains how DNA changes over time to produce the biodiversity we see today.
Obviously, you missed the point of the analogy.
The Cubs play their home games in Chicago.
Lemons come from trees.
Leprechauns make rainbows.
If I show that the first two statements are true, does that make the third statement true?
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