The End Time King of Judah

Biblewriter

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No Biblewriter, I know better than that and I researched it earlier "estathen" is not the word there...the word is histēmi

That's whether KJV or NASB...they both say histemi

Check yourself.

Even as it is a very bad idea for someone who has zero knowledge of science to enter into debate over basic science, It is a very bad idea for someone who has admitted that they have no knowledge of Greek to debate on the Greek of a passage.

Even in English, a basic word looks very different in its various forms. An example is our word "see," which in other forms is "saw" or "have seen." This is typical of languages in general, and Greek is no exception.

You are entirely correct that the root word used in Revelation is histemi, word number 2476 in Strong's numbering system. But that is only its root form, stood. I was quoting from the Textus Receptus, where the spelling is indeed estathen. This is the passive intransitve form of histemi, in the first person singular. Thus, either "I stood," or more precisely "I was stood," is indeed the correct rendering of this word."

And Revelation 13:3 is similar. The root word translated "I saw" is eido, word number 1492 in Strong's numbering system. But the form used here is eidon, which is the second aorist active intransitive first person singular of eido. So "I saw" is indeed the correct translation of this word.
 
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ebedmelech

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Revelation 13 is future prophecy concerning that Day...

Simple logic reveals this..

The beast is taken alive at the coming of Christ..

Christ hasn't come yet..

It's future..
Absolutely not. This shows your ignorance of Daniel...because in Daniel 7 the fourth beast is the very beast described in Revelation 13...that beast was Rome!

Once again you're found wanting and show you do not OR cannot correlate scripture properly!
 
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ebedmelech

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Even as it is a very bad idea for someone who has zero knowledge of science to enter into debate over basic science, It is a very bad idea for someone who has admitted that they have no knowledge of Greek to debate on the Greek of a passage.
This is true. However when one is familiar with using resources of translation of Greek, one can see through using such resources if what they're being told is true.

NOTHING of Blue Letter Bible, or Vines Expository Dictionary, or Thayer's, or Strong's says what you are saying.

Therefore I will not accept what you're saying. Strong's in NO WAY, even mentions estathen, as a root of histēmi.
Even in English, a basic word looks very different in its various forms. An example is our word "see," which in other forms is "saw" or "have seen." This is typical of languages in general, and Greek is no exception.
Which is where etymology ties in...I do know that much.
You are entirely correct that the root word used in Revelation is histemi, word number 2476 in Strong's numbering system. But that is only its root form, stood. I was quoting from the Textus Receptus, where the spelling is indeed estathen. This is the passive intransitve form of histemi, in the first person singular. Thus, either "I stood," or more precisely "I was stood," is indeed the correct rendering of this word."

And Revelation 13:3 is similar. The root word translated "I saw" is eido, word number 1492 in Strong's numbering system. But the form used here is eidon, which is the second aorist active intransitive first person singular of eido. So "I saw" is indeed the correct translation of this word.
Biblewriter, that's nonsense! I've been using Blue Letter Bible for quite awhile, and Vine's and Strong's Concordance since my conversion in 1987. They show the exact word within the translation, which is why I included the translation of Revelation 13:1 in Greek earlier:.

While I cannot read Greek...I can clearly see from the root "stao", there are other words that have their etymology from that. That does NOT mean they are the same thing because of that root.

When you look at what is there and READ the provided understanding of the word NOTHING speaks to histemi as a derivative of estathen.

You also impune yourself when you want to only include the Texus Receptus...that's your "KJV bias" creeping in there!

I don't have to read Greek to understand what a resource is saying...and understand the derivation a word is from...and of three resources which are Vine's, Strong's and Thayer's...NOT one says what you say.

Vine's, Strong's and Thayer's have been at it a LOT longer than you! :thumbsup:
 
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Interplanner

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1, 4 major mss go with "he stood" ( p47, Aleph, A, C). As far as I know P is not a major mss and it goes "I stood". (this data from Metzger, ABS)

2, there's no form of 'eido' in 13:3. There is in v1 and 2

3, 'histemi' and 'estathen' are conjugals. It is an irregular root, though, and BAG puts 'histano' and also 'anthistano' together in the identity paragraph on this one, under 'histemi.' So the roots seemed to have been 'hist' and 'stan' and they were forged together.

I don't know what you hoped to solve, but it is simply "the dragon 'drakon' stood on the shore." The same figure had just been fighting the believers. He soon gives the beast 'therion' his own power.
 
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ebedmelech

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Let's just include Blue Letter Bible as it provides the tools:

Greek Lexicon :: G2476 (NASB)

Please note Vine's says:
(a) transitively, denotes "to cause to stand, to set;" in the Passive Voice, "to be made to stand," e.g., Mat 2:9, lit., "was made to stand;" so Luk 11:18; 19:8 (Col 4:12 in some mss.); in Rev 13:1 the RV follows the best texts, "he stood" (not as AV, "I stood"); the reference is to the Dragon. In the Middle Voice, "to take one's stand, place oneself," e.g., Rev 18:15;
 
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Jon Anon

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1chronicles 5:2: showing the two witnesses...one a king and the other the "prime minister" (high priest)
Jubilee Bible 2000
For Judah prevailed above his brethren and was their prince, but the birthright was Joseph's:)


JOSEPH CONVERSES WITH JUDAH



THe end-time king of Judah is David one of the two witnesses and the other witness is Joseph the high priest as we read in Ezekiel 45 the prince. David is the prince of kings as Jesus is King of Kings and David being the highest king on earth during the millenium and Joseph the other witness that raises from the dead after 3.5 days is the high priest(prince of priests) during the millenium and we see what land he inheirts during the millenium. Each witness representing on earth one half of Jesus' offices in heaven...one a king and the other a priest and Jesus being both King and Priest after the order of melchelzedek

Look how much land the prince of Ezekiel 45 owns just that little sliver in Israel so we know that prince isn't David because david owns the whole world according to Psalms 2. It is not Davids place but the rightful owner the other witnesses the priestly witness or as many bible translations translate the word high Preist: Prince of Priests which will be the title of the 2nd witness that was raised after 3.5 days with David











Ezekiel 45:6 "And ye shall appoint the possession of the city five thousand broad, and five and twenty thousand long, over against the oblation of the holy portion: it shall be for the whole house of Israel . (7) And a portion shall be for the prince on the one side and on the other side of the oblation of the holy portion…"







Notice in verse seven the prince only receives a tiny portion of land. Is this the land for David, the King over all the earth? Psalms 2 clearly states that the David will inherit the entire earth, not just a small parcel of land in the nation of Israel :

Psalms 2:6 “Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
(8) Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
 
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Absolutely not. This shows your ignorance of Daniel...because in Daniel 7 the fourth beast is the very beast described in Revelation 13...that beast was Rome!

Once again you're found wanting and show you do not OR cannot correlate scripture properly!

Yeah ok, the beast is taken alive at the coming of Christ..

Did you also believe the lie that Christ came in AD70?

Interplanner says that nobody here believes that..
 
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Yes, there are 'comings' that are not the Final coming. Even the Spirit's coming was called a coming and Jesus said he would 'come to you' in that event. Then the destruction of Israel by God was a type of coming/visitation/appointed time.

So how many times has Christ come according to you interplanner?

How many times is He coming again?
 
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Thescriptureoftruth222

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The king of revived Judah, which is now called Israel, is first seen in Daniel 11:36-40. Many think this blasphemous "king" is the Roman "prince" of Daniel 9:26. But the language of Bible prophecy is very precise. Every detail has meaning. The Hebrew word translated "prince" in Daniel 9:26 is nagiyd (word number 5057 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). This Hebrew word means leader or commander. But the Hebrew word translated "king" in this passage is melek (word number 4428 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). This word literally means a king. Even such an apparently small difference as whether someone is called a melek or a nagiyd is important. This "king" is not the same person as "the prince."

We notice that "the king" shall not regard "the God of his fathers," (Daniel 11:37) but shall instead honor "a god which his fathers did not know." (verse 38) The term, "the God of his fathers," is not just a generic reference to a god worshiped in past generations. Some form of this term is used of the God of Israel fifty-eight times in the Old Testament. When the Lord sent Moses to the children of Israel He told him "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." (Exodus 3:15) Thus we see that the God this king shall ignore is none other than the God of Israel; and that in calling Himself "the God of his fathers," the Lord was identifying this "king" as an Israelite.

Most modern translations render this clause "the gods of his fathers." This is a possible translation because the Hebrew word for God (‘elohiym, word number 430 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary) is plural. But the Hebrew scriptures use ‘elohiym for the one true God of Israel about two thousand four hundred times. (Including Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:") While it was used of the gods of the heathen only about two hundred times. Whether ‘elohiym should be translated God or gods can only be determined from the context. Nothing in Daniel 11:37 implies a plural sense for this word. But if "the gods of his fathers" were correct, this would be the only place the Holy Spirit used this formula in speaking of false gods. Translators did not begin to use the plural word gods in this verse until the notion that "the king" is "the prince" became popular. So we realize this idea is the basis of the plural translation. Thus we understand that using the plural translation to prove this idea is only reasoning in a circle.

‘Elohiym has a singular form, ‘elowahh (word number 433 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). But the fact that it is not used never justifies translating ‘elohiym as gods. ‘Elowahh is used only sixteen times outside of the book of Job. But it is used in every reference to false gods in the passage we are considering (the word rendered "any god" in verse 37 and the "god" worshiped by "the king," mentioned twice in verse 38 and once in verse 39). This adds strength to the conclusion that the term "the God of his fathers" in this passage refers to the one true God of Israel, for a different word is used of all gods that are unquestionably false.

Having seen that the reference to “the God of his fathers” identifies “the king” as an Israelite, we now need to notice several other things about him. The first of these things is the way he is introduced. Up to this point in this prophecy, every reference to a king includes a reference to what king is being referred to. But now, suddenly, we read simply about “the king.” This, in and by itself, is significant. It is a standard rule in essentially every language and culture that when someone is suddenly mentioned as “the” leader, the reference is to the leader of whatever group is under discussion. So if we simply say “the boss,” we mean the supervisor of the working group that is being referred to. In like manner “the President,” when mentioned without any modifier, always means the president of the company, the organization, or the nation that is being discussed. It is the same with “the Prime Minister." So when “the king,” is suddenly mentioned without any modifier, it means the king of the nation being discussed.

But what people is the subject of this long prophecy? No specific people or nation has been mentioned previously anywhere in this chapter. But we need to remember that the chapter and verse divisions were added by men. They are not inspired by God. The angel’s message to Daniel had begun in the previous chapter, where he specifically stated who it is about, saying, “Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.” (Daniel 10:14) So the people under discussion is Daniel’s people, the Jews, even as the time under discussion is “the latter days.” Thus we see that “the king” is the person who will be the king of the Jews “in the latter days.”

The first thing God says about this king is that he, “shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods.” (Daniel 11:36) Compare this with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, where we read of “that man of sin,” “the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

This shows us why the worshippers of this evil king are charged with adultery in Isaiah 57:7-9, where we read, "Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice. Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it. And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell." This passage graphically shows Jehovah's jealousy at this false worship. But it also names the evil seducer. The object of this adulterous worship is none other than "the king."

In Daniel 11:40 "the king" is attacked by "the king of the South" and "the king of the North." The result is that "the king of the North" overruns many nations, including Israel, "the glorious land." (verses 41-45) But "the king" continues to prosper "indignation be accomplished." (verse 36) How does he escape? We learn this detail in Zechariah 11:17, where, as "the idol shepherd," he "leaves the flock!" We see this again in the missing shepherd of Zechariah 10:2, in the missing king of Micah 4:9, and the king whose heat perishes in Jeremiah 4:9. For this crime "the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened." (Zechariah 11:17)

Our Lord contrasted himself to this "idol shepherd" by saying "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep." (John 10:11-15)

We have already noticed that Isaiah 57:7-9 charges the worshippers of “the king” with adultery. And we have noticed the pointed similarity between the behavior of “the King” in Daniel 11:36 and “that man of sin,” “the son of perdition” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. Now we need to notice that in so contrasting Himself to “the idol shepherd,” our Lord was pointing him out as the “Antichrist,” the one who will come "in his own name," whom the Jews "will receive." (John 5:43)

The Antichrist is one of the most misunderstood of all end time individuals. He is not just an exceedingly evil person. Nor is he just someone that opposes the program of Christ. He is the great false messiah who rises in imitation of the true Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ. He has to be a Jew, for many scriptures show that Messiah is a Jew. Though blinded to many prophecies, the Jews know that their Messiah will be one of themselves. It would therefore be impossible to convince them that a gentile was their Messiah.

The Antichrist is mentioned by this title only in 1 John 2:18; "ye have heard that antichrist shall come." Many, if not most, seem to have completely missed the significance of this title. The Greek word transliterated Christ is Christos, (word number 5547 in Strong's Greek Dictionary) meaning the anointed one. It is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word mashiyach, (word number 4899 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary) which is transliterated Messiah. This title, though it applies to our Lord Jesus, does not mean God. Its literal meaning, the anointed one, means He is God's chosen one. Jesus said "I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42) Even so, the Antichrist will claim to be the chosen representative of God.

But, like the true Messiah, the Antichrist will claim to be more than just a messenger of God. In John 1:1 we read that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So in imitating Jesus, the Antichrist makes a similar dual claim. As the king of Judah, he will exalt himself above all gods, yet he will honor another as God.

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory:" (Daniel 11:37-39)

Brethen verily I say unto that man, that man is here. The man Daniel 11 talked about is here.
 
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