What made the Jerusalem Church in Acts so vibrant and effective?

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

The answer seems obvious enough, I can hear you now "The Holy Spirit duh! :doh:

" but if you or I were to walk into any Pentecostal/Charismatic church on any given Sunday and interview any member, most if not all would proudly proclaim they had the same baptism as those 120 in the Upper Room.

My question is, was the beginning explosion of Christianity just a grace of God to get the Church on it's feet, or was there a key to the incredible growth of our faith that we can lay hold on today? Now granted as I stated in my last thread, 1/3 of the world's population claims Christ already, laying that number aside, no matter how inflated, that leaves 4,000,000,000+ who do not believe in Jesus as the Savior, so truly the Church's work is not done.

What do you think made the Church in Jerusalem so effective? I have an idea, not by any means the only acceptable answer, and it comes in many forms.

First was they were a Church of Prayer (Matt 21:22):
Acts 1:14, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."
Acts 1:24, "Then they prayed"
Acts 2:42, "They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
Acts 3:1, 4:23-31, 6:4-6, chapter 10, 12:5-12, 13:3, 14:23, 20:36, 21:5

Second, they were obedient to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15)

Third, they were willing to die for their belief (John 15:13)

I didn't want to list all the scripture references, so forgive me if I cheated you out of that, they are there for sure. My list is by no means exhaustive either... Just to generate discussion is why I ask this to you all..

What would it take?

Yitzchak · Jan 27, 2014

I think there are several things that could be looked at. But let me begin with this one. I have heard a lot of people say that they want to be like the book of Acts Church. But none of the people that I have heard say that , have ever tarried for seven days straight the way that those who received Pentecost did. Most today , give up after an hour or two.

They called it praying through , in the old days. Praying and not giving up until God answered from heaven. In today's church people have the nerve to pray for five minutes and when they do not get an answer , they make one up and pin God's name on it.

I could tell you some stories of those who prayed through. Charles Finney was one.

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

Yitzchak said:
I think there are several things that could be looked at. But let me begin with this one. I have heard a lot of people say that they want to be like the book of Acts Church. But none of the people that I have heard say that , have ever tarried for seven days straight the way that those who received Pentecost did. Most today , give up after an hour or two.

They called it praying through , in the old days. Praying and not giving up until God answered from heaven. In today's church people have the nerve to pray for five minutes and when they do not get an answer , they make one up and pin God's name on it.

I could tell you some stories of those who prayed through. Charles Finney was one.

Good one, kinda close to home too, thanks!

Optimax · Jan 27, 2014

This may surprise ya!

The church in acts was powerful for several reasons.

One, they were in one accord and that is not a Honda.

Second, there were people in the church that had matured spiritually to a very high level.

The negative of that level of spirituality is mentioned in Hebrews and 1 John 5.

The positive side and most important is that with people like that around to learn from others could more also obtain that level.

That is what Christianity lacks today.

Men and Women of God that have attained Eph 4:13.

Consider that before ya trash it.

AbbaLove · Jan 27, 2014

The Fellowship of the Believers Acts 2:26-27 (ESV)

42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Orderly Worship 1 Cor 14:26

26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

In another thread in this Spirit-Filled/Charismatic forum the S-F/C Pastors of today’s churches were referred to as the ones in the ... “limelight” …

But behind the guy at the front are an unknown army of people who will never stand in the limelight but who, every day, spend time on their knees supporting the minister in prayer.

When I was a young man my Mother gave me the book "God Is My Co-Pilot" which I greatly appreciated. However, it was many years before I realized that God is the Pilot and we are His Co-Pilots.

Is every S-F/C Pastor/Minister an Apostle? Wasn't Kathryn Kuhlman just as much of an Apostle as some of today's S-F/C Pastors? She certainly ministered in His Light; yet her distractors thought she bathed herself in a "limelight" of self-promotion.

Willie T · Jan 27, 2014

Just a side -light (no "limelight" pun intended), Kathryn Kuhlman was my grandfather's cousin (father's side). Most of the family who knew her said she honestly WAS kind of a kooky person. No telling how she actually saw herself, or what kind of image she deliberately projected.

Me, I dunno. I don't think my father was ever around her much, either.

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

Optimax said:
This may surprise ya!

The church in acts was powerful for several reasons.

One, they were in one accord and that is not a Honda.

Second, there were people in the church that had matured spiritually to a very high level.

The negative of that level of spirituality is mentioned in Hebrews and 1 John 5.

The positive side and most important is that with people like that around to learn from others could more also obtain that level.

That is what Christianity lacks today.

Men and Women of God that have attained Eph 4:13.

Consider that before ya trash it.

I'm with ya, I agree. I admit I have much maturing in faith to do. Someone here said something once (or more than once perhaps) that has really struck a cord within me that has been one of my hardest lessons to date in my faith, infants need their parents around them all the time to be coddled and carressed, as we mature we are expected to be more independent and able to care for ourselves. Not that God ever leaves us to our own devices but I need to reach a point in my faith where I'm not panicking every time I feel God has left me. That is a struggle for me at times I admit but it is a necessary lesson. I pray I learn it quickly.

About Eph 4:13, I believe that until we know Christ, we can't truly live like Him, and until we live like Him daily, we haven't matured and I don't think we ever truly mature to where we need to be, but interesting note. Perhaps some disagree with me, that's fine, just my thoughts on it and I'm still learning.

Giver · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
The answer seems obvious enough, I can hear you now "The Holy Spirit duh! " but if you or I were to walk into any Pentecostal/Charismatic church on any given Sunday and interview any member, most if not all would proudly proclaim they had the same baptism as those 120 in the Upper Room.

My question is, was the beginning explosion of Christianity just a grace of God to get the Church on it's feet, or was there a key to the incredible growth of our faith that we can lay hold on today? Now granted as I stated in my last thread, 1/3 of the world's population claims Christ already, laying that number aside, no matter how inflated, that leaves 4,000,000,000+ who do not believe in Jesus as the Savior, so truly the Church's work is not done.

What do you think made the Church in Jerusalem so effective? I have an idea, not by any means the only acceptable answer, and it comes in many forms.

First was they were a Church of Prayer (Matt 21:22):
Acts 1:14, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."
Acts 1:24, "Then they prayed"
Acts 2:42, "They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
Acts 3:1, 4:23-31, 6:4-6, chapter 10, 12:5-12, 13:3, 14:23, 20:36, 21:5

Second, they were obedient to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15)

Third, they were willing to die for their belief (John 15:13)

I didn't want to list all the scripture references, so forgive me if I cheated you out of that, they are there for sure. My list is by no means exhaustive either... Just to generate discussion is why I ask this to you all..

What would it take?

Do you know what the difference is between the Church in the beginning, and the church of today?

If you dont then I will tell you. The Church in the beginning lived the whole Word of God. The church of today has no clue as to what living the whole Word of God means.

Yitzchak · Jan 27, 2014

AbbaLove said:
The Fellowship of the Believers Acts 2:26-27 (ESV)

Orderly Worship 1 Cor 14:26

In another thread in this Spirit-Filled/Charismatic forum the S-F/C Pastors of today’s churches were referred to as the ones in the ... “limelight” …
When I was a young man my Mother gave me the book "God Is My Co-Pilot" which I greatly appreciated. However, it was many years before I realized that God is the Pilot and we are His Co-Pilots.

Is every S-F/C Pastor/Minister an Apostle? Wasn't Kathryn Kuhlman just as much of an Apostle as some of today's S-F/C Pastors? She certainly ministered in His Light; yet her distractors thought she bathed herself in a "limelight" of self-promotion.

[/size][/font]

This is an old song from the Oak Ridge Boys. No body wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus. The lyrics are classic.

I once had a pizza with a pop star on the new York City Street. He was the most unhappy prophet you would ever want to meet. he said he really wanted to save the world, he just couldn't imagine how. But he had written a song about whats going wrong and I'm singing it to you now...
Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus. It seems like everybody wants to be the lead singer in the band, It's hard to get a bead on whats to find when everyone is pushing for the head of the line.

This video is from a church in Las Vegas. I am sure that they see a lot of this in that city.

Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus.m4v - YouTube

I would agree with this point as one of the reasons.

lismore · Jan 27, 2014

One factor that springs immediatly to mind, they were in Jerusalem, the city of the Great King. Jerusalem has promises from God that no other city has.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and Jacob will possess his inheritance.

Micah 4:1
In the last days the mountain of the Lords temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.Many nations will come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths. The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

lismore said:
One factor that springs immediatly to mind, they were in Jerusalem, the city of the Great King. Jerusalem has promises from God that no other city has.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and Jacob will possess his inheritance.

Micah 4:1
In the last days the mountain of the Lords temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.Many nations will come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths. The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

I understand but would that really play a part in the explosion of Christianity? After all didn't Jesus prophecy Jerusalem would be destroyed? I just think the Holy Spirit in me is as powerful in those of Acts thats all

lismore · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
I understand but would that really play a part in the explosion of Christianity? After all didn't Jesus prophecy Jerusalem would be destroyed? I just think the Holy Spirit in me is as powerful in those of Acts thats all

In the bible the Holy Spirit is sometimes compared to water and sometimes to air. You can increase hydration, the amount of water in the atmosphere and you can increase air pressure.

Elisha also asked for a double portion of the Spirit than Elijah had. A variation in quantity, so obviously the quantity is not the same everywhere in all situations.

I believe that the presence of God is more tangible, more intense in certain places as compared to others.

No offence but I don't believe you or I have a fraction of the intensity of God's presence that Peter/ John etc had. I also believe that the presence of God was much more tangible in the streets of Jerusalem than what we encounter by and large today.

God Bless

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

lismore said:
In the bible the Holy Spirit is sometimes compared to water and sometimes to air. You can increase hydration, the amount of water in the atmosphere and you can increase air pressure.

Elisha also asked for a double portion of the Spirit than Elijah had. A variation in quantity, so obviously the quantity is not the same everywhere in all situations.

I believe that the presence of God is more tangible, more intense in certain places as compared to others.

No offence but I don't believe you or I have a fraction of the intensity of God's presence that Peter/ John etc had. I also believe that the presence of God was much more tangible in the streets of Jerusalem than what we encounter by and large today.

God Bless

I gotcha and no offense taken, we are discussing

What about when those men left the streets of Jerusalem and went into Europe, they were still performing miracles, and even those who had never been to Jerusalem were. I could see why one would think Peter/John/or any Apostle from Acts had a more tangible presence of God within them and around them, but perhaps that is less an indictment against the Holy Spirit and more that we just lack the eagerness and whole-heartedness to buckle down and chase after Him until we catch Him. It seems there have been few in modern times that captured that long lost zeal unlike other contemporaries, Wigglesworth, Kuhlman, Lake, Prince, are just a few to name.

gideons300 · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
The answer seems obvious enough, I can hear you now "The Holy Spirit duh! " but if you or I were to walk into any Pentecostal/Charismatic church on any given Sunday and interview any member, most if not all would proudly proclaim they had the same baptism as those 120 in the Upper Room.

My question is, was the beginning explosion of Christianity just a grace of God to get the Church on it's feet, or was there a key to the incredible growth of our faith that we can lay hold on today? Now granted as I stated in my last thread, 1/3 of the world's population claims Christ already, laying that number aside, no matter how inflated, that leaves 4,000,000,000+ who do not believe in Jesus as the Savior, so truly the Church's work is not done.

What do you think made the Church in Jerusalem so effective? I have an idea, not by any means the only acceptable answer, and it comes in many forms.

First was they were a Church of Prayer (Matt 21:22):
Acts 1:14, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."
Acts 1:24, "Then they prayed"
Acts 2:42, "They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
Acts 3:1, 4:23-31, 6:4-6, chapter 10, 12:5-12, 13:3, 14:23, 20:36, 21:5

Second, they were obedient to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15)

Third, they were willing to die for their belief (John 15:13)

I didn't want to list all the scripture references, so forgive me if I cheated you out of that, they are there for sure. My list is by no means exhaustive either... Just to generate discussion is why I ask this to you all..

What would it take?

I think the question I would ask is the next step deeper....

WHY did they pray?

How did they walk in obedience?

What possesses them that made them willing to die for the gospel.

I once heard Leonard Ravenhill say:

"Can you tell me why 120 men filled with the Holy Spirit could turn the whole world upside down in one generation and we can have 120 churches in one large city claiming the same experience, and the city not know not care that they are there?"

I think part of it is their 'seedbed' in their heart was prepared when they received. Just to be one of the 120, they were already counting a cost...with their friends, their families, their synagogue, everything about their life.

We share the gospel as something that can make our convert's lives better. Jesus said that we must lose our life to find it. What they had done is count the cost.

We have defined 'free' as leaving us with ZERO responsibilities as to our expected response. The early disciples were fresh off the sermon where Jesus said He would make them free indeed, and then proceeded to define that freedom as freedom from committing sin, not just obtaining forgiveness.

If someone mentions our response being fervent seeking of His face so that wee might walk pleasing to Him, or walking as living sacrifices being our 'reasonable service', we are told that is 'works' and we are going back under law, and that grace makes that obsolete. But there can be no mistake. We must part with our pearl collection to obtain the one pearl of great price. They knew this, and did it. We think it radical, and great for fringe dwellers, fanatic and monks but fear tithing will cease if we preach such sermons.

We are told that we will seek Him and we will find Him, when we seek Him with our WHOLE heart. I fear under the current take on what grace is, we see no further need to seek Him, and that deep joy-filled abiding intimacy, for that would be unbelief, adding to grace and going backwards.

One last thought. I believe we for the most part are content to know ABOUT Him.... He is there, afar off, holy, we are here, unholy and forgiven. But the promise of the new covenant in Jeremiah 31 was that no man will have to tell the other "Know ye the Lord", for they will ALL know Him, from the least to the greatest. When we finally get tired of knowing about him, and will settle for nothing less then that "we might KNOW Him, and the power of His resurrection", we will be amazed at what happens.

There is much more, but this is my take on a good place to start. Kudos on posting a post like this. It shows honesty and hunger. May God reward you with more of Himself.

Blessings,

Gideon

whatfor · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
The answer seems obvious enough, I can hear you now "The Holy Spirit duh! " but if you or I were to walk into any Pentecostal/Charismatic church on any given Sunday and interview any member, most if not all would proudly proclaim they had the same baptism as those 120 in the Upper Room.

My question is, was the beginning explosion of Christianity just a grace of God to get the Church on it's feet, or was there a key to the incredible growth of our faith that we can lay hold on today? Now granted as I stated in my last thread, 1/3 of the world's population claims Christ already, laying that number aside, no matter how inflated, that leaves 4,000,000,000+ who do not believe in Jesus as the Savior, so truly the Church's work is not done.

What do you think made the Church in Jerusalem so effective? I have an idea, not by any means the only acceptable answer, and it comes in many forms.

First was they were a Church of Prayer (Matt 21:22):
Acts 1:14, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."
Acts 1:24, "Then they prayed"
Acts 2:42, "They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
Acts 3:1, 4:23-31, 6:4-6, chapter 10, 12:5-12, 13:3, 14:23, 20:36, 21:5

Second, they were obedient to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15)

Third, they were willing to die for their belief (John 15:13)

I didn't want to list all the scripture references, so forgive me if I cheated you out of that, they are there for sure. My list is by no means exhaustive either... Just to generate discussion is why I ask this to you all..

What would it take?

They were God centered not self centered.

ByTheSpirit · Jan 27, 2014

whatfor said:
They were God centered not self centered.

What does God centered mean and how would Christians today become so?

gideons300 · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
What does God centered mean and how would Christians today become so?

There is but one way. We must know that when Christ died, so did our self nature, our flesh.

Where Christ rose from the dead, so did we. We are new creatures, with new natures, God centered natures.

Now, by faith, we are asked to put the old one off by reckoning it dead....meaning deducting that to our spiritual bank account.

Then, by faith again, put on the new nature. Embrace it, reckon that we are new creatures, no longer in the flesh, owing it nothing. We must add that to who we are, and the believing of such a thing so glorious is called our good fight of faith.

We are to yield ourselves to God, but until we yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, not those trying to die to self through self effort, we will wander in circles and never get to where we want to be.

The saints in the last day learned the secret of obtaining power to overcome the enemy. They took the blood of the lamb and added to it, THEIR testimony. They overcame the world, the flesh and the devil by faith....faith that they really were new and really had new natures where self had no more authority and sin's power was broken.

That act is called "lighting our lamps". It is the next, the final move of God that will bring the bride into a position of being without spot or wrinkle.

Blessings,

Gideon

Frogster · Jan 27, 2014

Giver said:
Do you know what the difference is between the Church in the beginning, and the church of today?

If you dont then I will tell you. The Church in the beginning lived the whole Word of God. The church of today has no clue as to what living the whole Word of God means.

the church always had trouble, not only the Corinthians, but the Romans were figthing, as per chapter 14, possibly carnality due to the romans 7 covet teaching about lust, the churches of galatia were fighting and competing, chapter 5, again of course the corinthians an all of their issues, in philippi there were contentions, we see that ephesians had issues of former pagans influencing them, we see peter warn in both letters of flesh, and of course, the ever famous laodeceans, james had issues in his letter with people envying the rich, herews had people going back to the old cov.

Even in Acts 6, the women were arguing over who gets the money, we see paul and barnabas had a tussle in Acts 15, john left them earlier, Peter almost caused a massive church split in Antioch..anyway, thanks, frog.

Frogster · Jan 27, 2014

lismore said:
One factor that springs immediatly to mind, they were in Jerusalem, the city of the Great King. Jerusalem has promises from God that no other city has.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and Jacob will possess his inheritance.

Micah 4:1
In the last days the mountain of the Lords temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.Many nations will come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths. The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

I like how Barnabas came to Antioch, and found grace there, and that is where the church intergrated jew and greek, very important to see, besides, they spoke in Gentile tongues at pent.

Then to make matters worse, in jerusalem 70 Ad came, i think that was a global hint, not to put jerusalem to high above the church, thanks, frog.

Not saying you are, just kind of making points.

lismore · Jan 27, 2014

YahwehElShaddai said:
I gotcha and no offense taken, we are discussing What about when those men left the streets of Jerusalem and went into Europe, they were still performing miracles, and even those who had never been to Jerusalem were.

Some, but not to the same extent.

My favourite miracle of the time is in Matthew 27:51-53 when during the earthquake many hundreds of tombs were opened, many holy people came back to life and went into Jerusalem preaching the gospel.

Unequaled in Europe, no?

God Bless

What made the Jerusalem Church in Acts so vibrant and effective?

Come Lord Jesus

יצחק

Come Lord Jesus

Senior Veteran

AbbaLove

Guest

St. Petersburg Vineyard

Come Lord Jesus

Well-Known Member

יצחק

Maranatha

Come Lord Jesus

Maranatha

Come Lord Jesus

gideons300

Guest

Just me

Come Lord Jesus

gideons300

Guest

Galatians is the best!

Galatians is the best!

Maranatha

Similar threads