Is Fantasizing Sexualy About Your Spouse a Sin?

iambren · Jan 11, 2014

Objectifying a person solely for our pleasure and an enhanced level of selfishness where we entertain sinning to get what we want is LUST. All other sexual ideas and cravings are God-given ie we have a wide range of sexuality (imho,including mb) to live in and not be guilty about.

godenver1 · Jan 11, 2014

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RDKirk · Jan 11, 2014

iambren said:
Objectifying a person solely for our pleasure and an enhanced level of selfishness where we entertain sinning to get what we want is LUST. All other sexual ideas and cravings are God-given ie we have a wide range of sexuality (imho,including mb) to live in and not be guilty about.

And that can even happen in marriage, when by a man's fantasies when a fantasizes about a woman who may wear his wife's face...but is not his wife.

iambren · Jan 12, 2014

"But what thoughts are objectifying..that is, how far, In your opinion does it need to go to objectify?

For someone who isnt engaged, what thoughts (that is, fantasies) can one have that aren't sinful?"

I refer you to my post #25. This is a question that comes out of YOUR own walk with God,that He would guide your conscience. We can debate and have ideas but ultimately you have to answer to Him.

My stand is fairly generous on how much sexual thought he can have toward his soon-to-be bride. On the other hand I believe a man could lust over his own wife. I see no problem married/unmarried practicing masturbation(as long as it doesn't exclude keeping sex life with spouse). That's where I personally have arrived it--meditating on it,reading scripture,and using common sense.

Johnnz · Jan 12, 2014

To objectify a woman is to see her for her utility value without real concern for her well being in any way. It is all 'take' with no 'give'.

Anticipating intercourse and viewing each others' naked body, and, if you have been sensible enough to read some good pre-marriage sexual advice, anticipating carrying out what you have learned with one other when you are married would be legitimate for any couple. Some discussions on birth control methods (who, what sort), when you want children, and telling each other how much you are looking forward to being sexual with them should be included prior to marriage.

John
NZ

godenver1 · Jan 12, 2014

.......

Kixa · Jan 12, 2014

I am marrying my fiance in 76 days, and it is NOT easy, especially when you love someone so deeply. But as Jesus said in Matthew on the sermon on the mount, if a man looks at a women with lust in their heart, they have already committed adultery. The temptation isn't sin, and those thoughts will pop into your head, but as soon as they do, replace them with godly thoughts. Then, if God chooses to, He will bless the marriage even GREATER with an even more satisfying sex life..in His timing. Hang in there! And pray...never stop praying

Stealth001 · Jan 27, 2014

Here's a thought. What if this text isn't about "fantasies" or sexual "thoughts" at all. Let's look at the text...

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Notice, Christ is talking about a man who looks at a woman "to lust after her". It also implies that there is a binding marital obligation in place for the man and/or the woman in question. But the issue at hand isn't a fantasy... it's looking at a person who isn't yours to have and desiring to actually have them. The ESV puts it this way:

Matthew 5:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

There is quite a difference between a person having a fantasy... and another person hanging out in the club, looking at a woman, and intending to seduce her if possible. This man, if either are married, has committed adultery already in his heart... even if he hasn't asked her if she's wanting to "hang out" for the evening.

I was just sharing an observation. I could be wrong.

Johnnz · Jan 27, 2014

Stealth001 said:
I was just sharing an observation. I could be wrong.

No are are not wrong. Deliberate intent is in view on the Greek text.

John
NZ

timur123456789 · Jan 27, 2014

musingsofacac said:
Is having sexual thoughts about your fiance wrong?

No it is natural.

Have your read the song of songs ?

RDKirk · Jan 27, 2014

timur123456789 said:
No it is natural.

Have your read the song of songs ?

It's not right just because it's natural. There is a strong cultural thrust today to declare "right" everything that is "natural."

Scripturally, the opposite is more likely true. Obedience to the natural ("Obey your thirst!") leads to sin.

Having sexual thoughts about a fiancee--and remember that scripture contemplates only a betrothal that is equal to marriage in all but sexual consummation--is desiring the person who is recognized as being "yours"--it's neither adultery nor fornication.

The problem today is that "fiancee" means nothing more to most people than having a casual agreement to go beyond shacking up. With nothing more than that shallow concept in mind, Christians then are understandably confused.

The answer is to solidify in the Church and in the culture of Christianity the serious level of commitment that even engagement presents in the eyes of God.

timur123456789 · Jan 27, 2014

RDKirk said:
It's not right just because it's natural. There is a strong cultural thrust today to declare "right" everything that is "natural."

Scripturally, the opposite is more likely true. Obedience to the natural ("Obey your thirst!") leads to sin.

Having sexual thoughts about a fiancee--and remember that scripture contemplates only a betrothal that is equal to marriage in all but sexual consummation--is desiring the person who is recognized as being "yours"--it's neither adultery nor fornication.

The problem today is that "fiancee" means nothing more to most people than having a casual agreement to go beyond shacking up. With nothing more than that shallow concept in mind, Christians then are understandably confused.

The answer is to solidify in the Church and in the culture of Christianity the serious level of commitment that even engagement presents in the eyes of God.

Have your read the song of Solomon ?

Stealth001 · Jan 28, 2014

timur123456789 said:
Have your read the song of Solomon ?

Ah, the lovers desire and fantasize about one another prior to the wedding day... and it is regarded as something beautiful and all together lovely.

Johnnz · Jan 28, 2014

How a couple deeply in love can not think about sex when it is something that needs good information and discussion prior to marriage is beyond me.

John
NZ

OGM · Jan 31, 2014

Johnnz said:
How a couple deeply in love can not think about sex when it is something that needs good information and discussion prior to marriage is beyond me. John NZ

That does seem odd and very problematic...

RDKirk · Jan 31, 2014

Originally Posted by RDKirk

It's not right just because it's natural. There is a strong cultural thrust today to declare "right" everything that is "natural."

Scripturally, the opposite is more likely true. Obedience to the natural ("Obey your thirst!") leads to sin.

Having sexual thoughts about a fiancee--and remember that scripture contemplates only a betrothal that is equal to marriage in all but sexual consummation--is desiring the person who is recognized as being "yours"--it's neither adultery nor fornication.

The problem today is that "fiancee" means nothing more to most people than having a casual agreement to go beyond shacking up. With nothing more than that shallow concept in mind, Christians then are understandably confused.

The answer is to solidify in the Church and in the culture of Christianity the serious level of commitment that even engagement presents in the eyes of God.

timur123456789 said:
Have your read the song of Solomon ?

Yes, I have. The sensuality of Song is so intense that is approaches soft inappropriate contentography as written by a woman. And I mean that in a good way--sexual anticipation of a permissible lover is wholly acceptable to God.

But what does that have to do with what I wrote?

I said:

Having sexual thoughts about a fiancee...is desiring the person who is recognized as being "yours"--it's neither adultery nor fornication.

godenver1 · Jan 31, 2014

........

Johnnz · Jan 31, 2014

godenver1 said:
So a permissible lover is one that one is betrothed to?

This would not include theoretically available women?

I'm not sure I understand what your statement means? It's quite clear that we are not to see others only in sexual terms. That is objectifying a person.

The original question was about two people committed to a marriage having sexual thoughts prior to their ceremony. That is natural, healthy and necessary in my opinion. But we are not to think of other people in the same way, apart from recognising their gender based characteristics.

John
NZ

godenver1 · Feb 1, 2014

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Stealth001 · Feb 7, 2014

Marriage is technically just a contract that binds two people and/or families together for the purpose of inheritance. Desire isn't sinful in itself. However, if you fantasize about a woman, unless she's single... you're sinning. You can't fantasize about another man's wife. If you fantasize about your fiancé, that is permissible, desires and interest is normal. And should you marry, your fantasies should remain with that person, for example, if you have an extended period of absence.

Those are just my thoughts.

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