Do you keep the first command?

Some of us are modalists, some aren't, but the belief is that Yeshua has always existed before the incarnation.
The OT patriarchs knew the Messiah either because he is the same person as the Father, or because they saw him, "the God of Israel".
The Father wasnt seen in the OT.
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18 NASB)
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank. (Exodus 24:9-11 NKJV)
I myself am not a modalist, but I believe the God of Israel who they visibly saw, was The Pre-incarnate Word.

Anyone who denies the Son, does not have the Father. He who denies the Son, is anti-christ.

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. (I John 2:22, 23 NKJV)

All jews who deny the Messiah are antichrist, or do you have a different way to look at the scripture.

I think at least xDenax is logical enough to see what the New Testament says regarding those who deny the Son.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6 NKJV)

David Ben Yosef said:

That is a load of rubbish. And yes, I know the Brit Chadasha by heart [pretty much anyway] but I completely disagree with that teaching. Millions of Jews demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit on a daily basis. To believe that all Jews who have not accepted Yeshua as the Jewish Mashiakh do not know G-d is to deny reality. It is quite absurd actually.

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Anyone who does not know Jesus does not know God, since Jesus is God in the flesh.

Tell you, and bring them near; yes, let them take counsel together: who has declared this from ancient time? who has told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. Isaiah 45:21

Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. Luke 2:11

Go figure! All the Jewish tzadikim from Abraham to just prior to Yeshua's public ministry did not know HaShem. :o

That doctrine played a large roll in why I am no longer a Christian, and chose MJ. Not all Messianics believe that heresy. However, there were many more reasons than that. The Christian rejection of Torah was the biggest reason by far.

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Still perplexed at how anyone can claim that nobody in the Old Testament knew Jesus the Christ, when both the Law and the Prophets testify of Jesus?

Lion King said:

Still perplexed at how anyone can claim that nobody in the Old Testament knew Jesus the Christ, when both the Law and the Prophets testify of Jesus?

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How so?

Almost impossible. I've never obeyed the commandment in a day in my life. However with God, all things are possible

Messy said:

Yes. I think even not saved gentiles who never heard the gospel can 'know' God:
Romans 2
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

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How does one know God if they outright reject Jesus Christ?

Lion King said:

How does one know God if they outright reject Jesus Christ?

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They may know Him by name, but they can do better than those who claim the name. It wouldn't be the first time.

Exodus 6:3
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

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Do you think that God has only one name or title?

Psalm 76:1
In Judah is God known: his name is great in Israel.

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or that the name you think is the only name of Jesus Christ is correct for salvation is right..

Psalm 83:18
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

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Are they the same God?

Jeremiah 16:21
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The Lord.

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Do you think that if you reject one, you reject both? So which one can you get away with rejecting by not calling upon Him?

John 15:21
But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

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visionary said:

They may know Him by name, but they can do better than those who claim the name. It wouldn't be the first time.
Do you think that God has only one name or title? or that the name you think is the only name of Jesus Christ is correct for salvation is right.. Are they the same God? Do you think that if you reject one, you reject both? So which one can you get away with rejecting by not calling upon Him?

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What are you trying to say?

Lion King said:

What are you trying to say?

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What name ... bible gives several names.... Jesus Christ is not the only name that one might be saved.... In fact, you do not have to know the name to follow Him. It might be that they know only Him by His voice.

John 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

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visionary said:

What name ... bible gives several names.... Jesus Christ is not the only name that one might be saved.... In fact, you do not have to know the name to follow Him. It might be that they know only Him by His voice.

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Let me rephrase my question; how can anyone know God if they outright reject His Son?

By the way, there is only one name by which one can be saved, and that is Jesus the Christ of Nazareth.

If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:9-12

Messy said:

They don't know God as a Person, but when someone loves his neighbour as himself, while he has never heard the gospel, he knows God's Character and can still get saved and get to know God and accept Jesus if they die, that's something I heard from Sadhu Sundhar Singh. Sorry, this was not about outright rejecting, but when someone never heard about Him.

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The problem with that thinking is that we need to remember, God has mercy, on whoever he desires, and sinners, are guilty and enemies of God.

I think the issue you raise is about the "memo problem". We need to look at this on the basis of "the wages of sin" being, death.

As for children however, that's a different story... I do believe at least babies and younger children not damned for sins.

BetaChristian said:

The problem with that thinking is that we need to remember, God has mercy, on whoever he desires, and sinners, are guilty and enemies of God.

I think the issue you raise is about the "memo problem". We need to look at this on the basis of "the wages of sin" being, death.

As for children however, that's a different story... I do believe at least babies and younger children not damned for sins.

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It is also written:

With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful; with a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless; With the pure You will show Yourself pure; And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd. 2 Samuel 22:26-27

With the merciful you will show yourself merciful; with an upright man you will show yourself upright; Psalm 18:25

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Matthew 5:7