Chaplain David
CF Chaplain
Hello,
Could you explain what you mean by the above. It's probably just me but I don't understand what you're saying. Thanks and Shabbat Shalom.
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NT VS. Talmud
- Thread starter NealOFA
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Could you explain what you mean by the above. It's probably just me but I don't understand what you're saying. Thanks and Shabbat Shalom.
SayaOtonashi
Newbie
I was saying so are you saying Paul's letter and Luke's writing is wrong for Christians? I mean it seems to me there is a different in the two. However Christians have abuse N.T in stopping women from cutting hair, working, and a few other things. Is it the different that make some people feel Christians should abandon N.T
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
No, we don't abandon the NT, but neither do we take "scholars" and "Christian teachers" words, blindly believing them. We understand that the foundation of All of God's Plan is to be found in the Torah. If what someone tells you is being said in the NT, regardless of who is supposed to have said it, cannot be validated in Torah, then it's been misunderstood by the scholar, or the teacher, or you. Then it's time to do some real homework, and most Christians don't seem to do a lot of that because it begins at the beginning. (Do those words ring a bell? Start at Genesis and don't stop till you get to the end of Rev. and then start again. 2 or 3 times, you might be ready to take a few notes.)
The gentile Christians deprived the Christians of the last 1800 or so years of a vast amount of information - the greatest being how to understand Jewish writings. Isn't that a hoot? They took away the one thing we need to understand the NT since it was written by Jews, mostly to Jews, and at the time where the letters were written to the gentiles, there were also Jews among the listeners who could explain. But then the Jewish believers went underground because the gentiles no longer wanted anything Jewish to do with "their" religion.
Well, we're taking it back now. And we're beginning to understand exactly what Paul and the others were talking about but not thanks to the majority of mainstream traditional christian teachings. Enuf said. Probably already got myself into some hot water here. Oh well, life's rough....
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SayaOtonashi
Newbie
I agree, for example many Christan are against abortion yet the Talmud clearly shows if a woman is having trouble with giving birth abort the baby. What about the slight different? For example what has been unclean will be clear in food? This is why I find so many Christians crazy. So, Many Greek and Hebrew don' match what they are saying.
[FONT=Georgia,'Times New Roman',Times,serif]The pivotal rabbinic text on abortion is found in Mishnah Oholot 7:6.
If a woman was in hard travail [such that her life is in danger], the child must be cut up while it is in the womb and brought out member by member, since the life of the mother has priority over the life of the child; but if the greater part of it was already born, it may not be touched, since the claim of one life cannot override the claim of another life.
Any help to the women cutting hair and head covering? I know that the Talmund states a village would should decide.
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The origin of the tradition lies in the Sotah ritual, a ceremony described in the Bible that tests the fidelity of a woman accused of adultery. According to the Torah, the priest uncovers or unbraids the accused woman's hair as part of the humiliation that precedes the ceremony (Numbers 5:18). From this, the Talmud (Ketuboth 72) concludes that under normal circumstances hair covering is a biblical requirement for women.
The Mishnah in Ketuboth (7:6), however, implies that hair covering is not an obligation of biblical origin. It discusses behaviors that are grounds for divorce such as, "appearing in public with loose hair, weaving in the marketplace, and talking to any man" and calls these violations of Dat Yehudit, which means Jewish rule, as opposed to Dat Moshe, Mosaic rule. This categorization suggests that hair covering is not an absolute obligation originating from Moses at Sinai, but rather is a standard of modesty that was defined by the Jewish community.
[FONT=Georgia,'Times New Roman',Times,serif]The pivotal rabbinic text on abortion is found in Mishnah Oholot 7:6.
If a woman was in hard travail [such that her life is in danger], the child must be cut up while it is in the womb and brought out member by member, since the life of the mother has priority over the life of the child; but if the greater part of it was already born, it may not be touched, since the claim of one life cannot override the claim of another life.
Any help to the women cutting hair and head covering? I know that the Talmund states a village would should decide.
[/FONT]
The origin of the tradition lies in the Sotah ritual, a ceremony described in the Bible that tests the fidelity of a woman accused of adultery. According to the Torah, the priest uncovers or unbraids the accused woman's hair as part of the humiliation that precedes the ceremony (Numbers 5:18). From this, the Talmud (Ketuboth 72) concludes that under normal circumstances hair covering is a biblical requirement for women.
The Mishnah in Ketuboth (7:6), however, implies that hair covering is not an obligation of biblical origin. It discusses behaviors that are grounds for divorce such as, "appearing in public with loose hair, weaving in the marketplace, and talking to any man" and calls these violations of Dat Yehudit, which means Jewish rule, as opposed to Dat Moshe, Mosaic rule. This categorization suggests that hair covering is not an absolute obligation originating from Moses at Sinai, but rather is a standard of modesty that was defined by the Jewish community.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
Try tearing out the pages that sit between the 'old' and the 'new' parts of The Book - they were never intended to be there in the first place - so that you have one contiguous writing of G_d's self- revelation to the world!
Then read from Genesis right through to the end of Malachi or 2 Chronicles (depending on the layout of the component parts of what you believe to be the 'old' part of The Book).
Then go right on and read the letters which Paul wrote (they need dividing down a bit further, really, but this will be a good start), in the order in which you find them eg: Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, etc etc then read Matthew, Mark, Luke & Acts & John, then read the remainder of the books up to Revelation.
This is only a rough guide, but it is a better order than that which we have today, especially in the latter part of The Book. You can begin, then, to 'fine tune' your knowledge of how it all hangs together rather than reading things in a totally wrong order. Today's layout is less than helpful to really understanding what G_d is saying to us and leads to many errors being taught, even by those who should know far better!
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Yep. But mostly, the Tanakh needs to be delved into first!! The Christians have it all backwards. They say you can't understand the OT without understanding the NT first. That's just silly. Shall we all read the ends of all books to understand their beginnings? Sheesh....
Gonna build an attic before the foundation is poured? Guess you can figure that I don't think they are correct. Get the foundation of God's Plan down, then you can understand His working it all out.
Gonna build an attic before the foundation is poured? Guess you can figure that I don't think they are correct. Get the foundation of God's Plan down, then you can understand His working it all out.
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I don't think I insulted Christianity or any part of Trinity... I just want to ask your opinions about WHY would a person choose the New Testament over the Talmud? Which one does a BETTER job of sticking to the message of the Torah AND conveying the teachings of the Prophets as taught from day one? I would like to hear your opinion as to why a Jew would choose the New Testament over Talmud based on the above criteria. By the way, I am a Messianic believer...
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
Rather late in the day to pick up on a response on page one but:
You said:
My response was that this is a derogatory remark - did you not read the whole of my quote from the SoP and did you not note the bit I placed in bold type? Accusing all Christians of being anti-Torah is a derogatory remark against Christianity since it is manifestly untrue and so you could never prove your statement to be true. Have you ever read how much of the 'Old' testament actually appears in the 'New' testament by direct quote or teaching? If it were removed the 'New' could not exist! Nowhere does the 'New' testament teach that the 'Old' is invalid or finished with or not for today, if read properly.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Nothing new under the sun. The NT is only the OT spoken by Yeshua and His men. If the NT said anything different, then it would not have come from the Creater of Heaven and Earth. Only problem is, is that a lot of Christians have been taught wrongly over the years. But Baurch Hashem! this is changing now! Eyes are seeing, ears are hearing, hearts are preceiving what the Spirit has been saying all along!!
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Nothing new under the sun. The NT is only the OT spoken by Yeshua and His men. If the NT said anything different, then it would not have come from the Creater of Heaven and Earth. Only problem is, is that a lot of Christians have been taught wrongly over the years. But Baurch Hashem! this is changing now! Eyes are seeing, ears are hearing, hearts are preceiving what the Spirit has been saying all along!!
God is from everlasting. Forever.
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Choose God over God? In what deceived mind does that make sense?
Who attempts to "divide" God? A divide and conquer technique? Lame. God is God, regardless of who attempts to reject Him.
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Bad loop thinking...break the loop up and you have nothing.. it all comes together in Him whom created it.
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SayaOtonashi
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Much of the old laws have appeared in the N.T testament. For Christians we no longer need to follow Jewish Law . Paul taught much of the churches laws.
Galatians 5:3-4
Is what Christians have used and now I will leave for I for myself pitiful. I'm sorry
Galatians 5:3-4
Is what Christians have used and now I will leave for I for myself pitiful. I'm sorry
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
The whole of The Book requires people to obey G_d's law - Paul, writing before the gospels were written, and reminding us of the need to obey the Law, is supported by Yeshua's comments in the gospels, written later, that the Law will never be changed or withdrawn, not even the yod or the stroke of the pen on a letter. All writers in The Book agree that the Law is there to be obeyed, if read properly.
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Wait til you meet Him whom wrote the Law, signed it in His Own blood, marked it for His people, and if you are part of His people then you would not say Christians no longer need His Laws.
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Originally Posted by SayaOtonashi
Much of the old laws have appeared in the N.T testament. For Christians we no longer need to follow Jewish Law . Paul taught much of the churches laws.
Galatians 5:3-4
Is what Christians have used and now I will leave for I for myself pitiful. I'm sorry
I would tend to agree with that, as would the Jews of today
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