Self Defense

drew89

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Not if he's already got the drop on you.
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No, it does not mean self-disciplined and not governed by law or regulations.

102RP6

Meaning of the phrase "well-regulated"
 
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drew89

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Oh. You're going to band together with some "true patriots®" and storm Washington. Let me know how that goes down...

The likelihood of success is irrelevant. The government doesn't get to say "We're too powerful now so you don't get that right anymore."
 
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TLK Valentine

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The likelihood of success is irrelevant. The government doesn't get to say "We're too powerful now so you don't get that right anymore."

Agreed. Americans have the right to whatever security blanket gets them through the night.
 
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drew89

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Why do people treat the second amendment as if it were handed down by God himself? I have a feeling the founding fathers had no idea that our culture would become so obsessed with firearms that we put our faith in an inanimate, deadly object more than our fellow man, or even God.

How about, no. You don't have the right to walk around town with a gun on your hip like Yosemite Sam. No one should.

But you know, instead of dealing with the issues that plague our society, we should just isolate ourselves, arm ourselves to the teeth, and hope for the best.
What a progressive society we will be! Truly the definition of Utopia.:doh:

Then amend the Constitution. We have a political process; follow it. The law says I DO have a right to walk around with as many guns and as much ammo as I want. I can carry an AR15 into the bank if I want to, and if you call the cops they will inform you I am not breaking any laws. I have no obligation to deal with society's issues. It is called SELF defense for a reason.
 
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drew89

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I will say that this is about the biggest straw man I've ever seen erected in this place. GOOD JOB SIR! :thumbsup:

The idea is the same. In both cases you're relying solely on God for protection, while taking no action yourself. Why do you have a gun for home defense if you trust God to protect you in public?
 
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I carry a gun everywhere I legally can for self defense. The only places I can't carry legally are a government building, church, school, or bar (unless I have the owner's permission). Other than that my gun is always on my hip, whether I'm at the bank, movies, mall, a restaurant, whatever. I also carry a spare magazine, which gives me 31 rounds total. I have a Constitutional right to do so. I have never committed a crime using my gun and never will. I have a question for those of you in favor of gun control. What gives you the right to attempt to deny my right to defend myself? If you are scared of being the victim of a violent crime you are free to arm yourself, but you are not free to disarm me.
"For we are NOT to delineate the faces of idols, we who are PROHIBITED to cleave to them; NOR a sword, NOR a bow, following as we do, PEACE;"

Clement of Alexandria (153-217 AD) in
Paedogogus




Don't like it? Argue with JESUS WHO IS GOD who said those who wield a sword/aka WEAPON will DIE, i.e. NOT to do it "Those who wield the sword, die by the sword"

Don't like it? Argue with the Early CHRISTians! Who DIDn't use murderous weapons!!

You worship your gun like and IDOL! A violence, murderous IDOL which is against JESUS who is God.
 
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drew89

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The most recent (failed) gun control legislation was about, what? Background checks and limits on magazines? How would either of those things prevented you from defending yourself? It sounds like you would have no difficulties passing a background check, and you can carry as much ammo as you like, though it may have to get parceled out into more magazines.

Between the gun nuts and the gun banners, there's a pretty wide stretch of people who would like more gun control.

I have a right to exercise my Second Amendment rights without government surveillance (background checks). Which other Constitutional right do you need a background check to exercise? According to the Supreme Court I have the right to own any weapons in common use. An AR15 comes with a standard 30 round magazine, and it is the most commonly used rifle in the U.S. My pistol comes with a standard 15 round magazine, and it is one of the most common pistols. According to the court precedent (and Congress) I have a right to these magazines.
 
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drew89

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"For we are NOT to delineate the faces of idols, we who are PROHIBITED to cleave to them; NOR a sword, NOR a bow, following as we do, PEACE;"

Clement of Alexandria (153-217 AD) in
Paedogogus




Don't like it? Argue with JESUS WHO IS GOD who said those who wield a sword/aka WEAPON will DIE, i.e. NOT to do it "Those who wield the sword, die by the sword"

Don't like it? Argue with the Early CHRISTians! Who DIDn't use murderous weapons!!

You worship your gun like and IDOL! A violence, murderous IDOL which is against JESUS who is God.

Put down the koolaid buddy.
 
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Belk

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I carry a gun everywhere I legally can for self defense. The only places I can't carry legally are a government building, church, school, or bar (unless I have the owner's permission). Other than that my gun is always on my hip, whether I'm at the bank, movies, mall, a restaurant, whatever. I also carry a spare magazine, which gives me 31 rounds total. I have a Constitutional right to do so. I have never committed a crime using my gun and never will. I have a question for those of you in favor of gun control. What gives you the right to attempt to deny my right to defend myself? If you are scared of being the victim of a violent crime you are free to arm yourself, but you are not free to disarm me.


Nothing. And since that is not my goal it seems rather silly to ask me the question. Why is it that people always assume gun control = taking away the guns of ordinary people? My goal is not to take your guns away. My goal is to ensure that the people who do have guns are responsible and well trained in when and how to utilize them effectively. My goal is to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. My goal is the delicate balancing act of allowing freedom while ensuring it is not misused by those who would deliberately harm others.
 
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drew89

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Nothing. And since that is not my goal it seems rather silly to ask me the question. Why is it that people always assume gun control = taking away the guns of ordinary people? My goal is not to take your guns away. My goal is to ensure that the people who do have guns are responsible and well trained in when and how to utilize them effectively. My goal is to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. My goal is the delicate balancing act of allowing freedom while ensuring it is not misused by those who would deliberately harm others.

And how would you do that without infringing on my rights?
 
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Put down the koolaid buddy.
'koolaid' that term is tea party, only place I've ever heard it.

You're tea party. Wow you people just live for fighting, warfare, FEAR and doom and gloom. Whenever I post anywhere, you get your guns and start shooting over and over again, saying 1 or 2 sentence phrases and nonsensical "faith" based things in inanimate objects which kill people and have killed 1.6 million since the 1960's

No prob, I like competition too, and if you think you people will win, you WON"T. I'll keep fighting you along with the others who are on my side of the line. Progress will come, and you can't stop it.
 
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drew89

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'koolaid' that term is tea party, only place I've ever heard it.

You're tea party. Wow you people just live for fighting, warfare, FEAR and doom and gloom. Whenever I post anywhere, you get your guns and start shooting over and over again, saying 1 or 2 sentence phrases and nonsensical "faith" based things in inanimate objects which kill people and have killed 1.6 million since the 1960's

No prob, I like competition too, and if you think you people will win, you WON"T. I'll keep fighting you along with the others who are on my side of the line. Progress will come, and you can't stop it.

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. Even if "you people" win, you still won't get my guns, and I will still carry with me everywhere. I won't comply with any new gun control laws.
 
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Belk

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And how would you do that without infringing on my rights?


Well, personally I would like all gun training courses to able to be deducted from taxes. I would like familiarization courses with on legal use of deadly force as a requirement of CCW. I would like guns to be registered and titled like cars so that transfers could be checked to ensure felons cannot buy weapons easily.
 
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stamperben

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The idea is the same. In both cases you're relying solely on God for protection, while taking no action yourself. Why do you have a gun for home defense if you trust God to protect you in public?
At least you're closer than ChristOurCaptain. But you miss the point that it is God who gives me the wits I have to know what to do in a situation. In being held up it is to access the circumstances and say the right words that get me out of it with less things but with my life intact. With a sick child He has given me the knowledge to know that there are doctors with the skills to heal. In both cases action is taken. Sorry you and COC can't see that. I feel badly for you in that, and in that you think that the only way out of some things is to shoot your way out.
 
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stamperben

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I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. Even if "you people" win, you still won't get my guns, and I will still carry with me everywhere. I won't comply with any new gun control laws.
Yet you say you place so much emphasis on the Constitution and laws of this country.
 
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ChristOurCaptain

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At least you're closer than ChristOurCaptain. But you miss the point that it is God who gives me the wits I have to know what to do in a situation. In being held up it is to access the circumstances and say the right words that get me out of it with less things but with my life intact. With a sick child He has given me the knowledge to know that there are doctors with the skills to heal. In both cases action is taken. Sorry you and COC can't see that. I feel badly for you in that, and in that you think that the only way out of some things is to shoot your way out.

But now you're introducing other factors than "God" to the equation, so can you, by your own logic, be said to "trust God" according to your definition when you're actually doing ANYTHING actively?
What's to stop someone from saying: "I trust God; He has given me the wits I have to know what to do in a situation. Therefore, I have acquired the means of defending myself and my family; a gun"? You cannot refute this, based on your own posts.
 
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drew89

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Well, personally I would like all gun training courses to able to be deducted from taxes. I would like familiarization courses with on legal use of deadly force as a requirement of CCW. I would like guns to be registered and titled like cars so that transfers could be checked to ensure felons cannot buy weapons easily.

I would say all of those proposals, with the exception of deducting training courses from taxes, infringe on my right to bear arms. Infringe is a broader term than restrict.
 
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drew89

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At least you're closer than ChristOurCaptain. But you miss the point that it is God who gives me the wits I have to know what to do in a situation. In being held up it is to access the circumstances and say the right words that get me out of it with less things but with my life intact. With a sick child He has given me the knowledge to know that there are doctors with the skills to heal. In both cases action is taken. Sorry you and COC can't see that. I feel badly for you in that, and in that you think that the only way out of some things is to shoot your way out.

I carry a gun as a last resort. I would only use it if my life was being threatened. That doesn't mean I would never try any other methods of diffusing a situation. I just prefer to have the option.
 
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Belk

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I would say all of those proposals, with the exception of deducting training courses from taxes, infringe on my right to bear arms. Infringe is a broader term than restrict.

  • Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
  • Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".

I suppose from a very broad perspective I could see #2 applying. If you are unwilling to do anything to own a gun those would be infringements. By the same broad reading having to pay money for a weapon would be an infringement. Do you not think we should limit access to fire arms for people who use them to break the law or harm others? How can one do so without some method of controlling who has access to said fire arms?
 
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