Rich Man of Luke 16 symbolizes House of Judah, the Jews?

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

What do others think of the one commentator's view concerning the Rich Man symbolizing the House/Nation of Judah, the Jews?

The House of Judah was formed with 3 tribes after the split from Solomon and consisted of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the priestly tribe of Levi.

Ezr 1:5
Then the heads of the fathers' [houses] of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, with all whose spirits God had moved, arose to go up and build the house of the LORD which [is] in Jerusalem.

Any input from others is most welcome. Thank you.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:27
"Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' " (NKJV)

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

brinny · Mar 18, 2013

it symbolizes those who will not bow to God and are basically sayin' they don't need Him in this life, and then whine in the next life, still as despicable as ever, as they wanna use Lazarus as a "servant" cuz he's STILL "less than" even in the after life. Jesus is right, they gots a thick head now, and will STILL have a thick head then. And this includes all 5 of his thick headed brothers.

ChristOurCaptain · Mar 18, 2013

Considering Romans 9-11, I'd say that making the rich man in Jesus' parable out to be = the Jews, is nonsense.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

brinny said:
it symbolizes those who will not bow to God and are basically sayin' they don't need Him in this life, and then whine in the next life, still as despicable as ever, as they wanna use Lazarus as a "servant" cuz he's STILL "less than" even in the after life. Jesus is right, they gots a thick head now, and will STILL have a thick head then. And this includes all 5 of his thick headed brothers.

Thick heads are good to have when boxing

Rocky 3 - Mr. T - I pity the fool - YouTube

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brinny · Mar 18, 2013

Hahaaaa yeah, but only then ^_^

Logeth · Mar 18, 2013

brinny said:
it symbolizes those who will not bow to God and are basically sayin' they don't need Him in this life, and then whine in the next life, still as despicable as ever, as they wanna use Lazarus as a "servant" cuz he's STILL "less than" even in the after life. Jesus is right, they gots a thick head now, and will STILL have a thick head then. And this includes all 5 of his thick headed brothers.

I totally agree. I never heard the parallel made between the rich man and the Jews and I think that the commentary is a little extreme, trying to find things where there are not. Also, I understood it as a pledge for the non-existence of hell

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LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

Any input from others is most welcome. Thank you.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:27
"Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' " (NKJV)
The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

ChristOurCaptain said:
Considering Romans 9-11, I'd say that making the rich man in Jesus' parable out to be = the Jews, is nonsense.

Could you elaborate? Thks

.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

Logeth said:
I totally agree. I never heard the parallel made between the rich man and the Jews and I think that the commentary is a little extreme, trying to find things where there are not. Also, I understood it as a pledge for the non-existence of hell.

Are you aware that the non-Christian Jews/Judaism of today have no concept of the "hell" that is preached in mainstream Christianity and Islam?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411036/
JEWS: Do You Believe in Hell?

roseglass6370 said:
I'm Christian but have two good friends who are Jewish. Both of them have told me that Jews don't believe in Hell. I want to know if this is the general consensus amongst the Jewish community.

So, do you believe in Hell, or Satan, or Heaven for that matter? Why or why not?

Just curious.

Thanks!

-Brooke

rockytopva · Mar 18, 2013

It could be that Jesus was referring to the five full blooded brothers of Judah. If a man preached this message under the unction of the Holy Spirit I would be all ears.

However, unless an anointed minister of the Gospel preaches this message, I will remain convinced that the main message of this passage is to avoid going over board materialistically where the things of Christ are suffocated out of the believers life.

Here is a sermon that I think brings out the meaning of the passage pretty well...

A Few Sighs From Hell - Beth Stephens - YouTube

mottie · Mar 18, 2013

some eisegesis going on here

bling · Mar 18, 2013

Prior to the destruction of the Kingdom in the North (Israel) many fled to the South (Judah) so I do not know from only the rich man saying he had five brothers could you make a connection? Where does the tribe of Benjamin fit in all this? The number six is also symbolic of imperfection and there were six brothers? The idea the rich man was part of a large family and all were heading to hell sounding like the selection of those going to hell is not arbitrary?
Just because the rich man went to hell first does not pay the price for any other members of his family?

Logeth · Mar 18, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Are you aware that the non-Christian Jews/Judaism of today have no concept of the "hell" that is preached in mainstream Christianity and Islam?

So? That doesn't mean that I shouldn't believe in it. Even though I am always opened to read/hear other opinions about things, because I know I can be mistaken

. I am sorry if I deviated from the subject of the thread

.

Eseven · Mar 18, 2013

ex·e·ge·sis
/ˌeksiˈjēsis/
Noun
Critical explanation or interpretation of a text, esp. of scripture.
Synonyms
interpretation - explanation - commentary

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Are you aware that the non-Christian Jews/Judaism of today have no concept of the "hell" that is preached in mainstream Christianity and Islam?

Click to expand...

Logeth said:
So? That doesn't mean that I shouldn't believe in it. Even though I am always opened to read/hear other opinions about things, because I know I can be mistaken. I am sorry if I deviated from the subject of the thread.

No worries.
Here is the beginning part of that parable:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.
Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading.

In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching.............................

samcarternx · Mar 18, 2013

idk who does lazarus represent? He who hated his life as opposed to he who loved it maybe?

brinny · Mar 18, 2013

Lazarus is the one poor, like Jesus talked about in the Beatitudes. He was a believer, and that's why he's in Abraham's bosom.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:3

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 18, 2013

samcarternx said:
idk who does lazarus represent? He who hated his life as opposed to he who loved it maybe?

brinny said:
Lazarus is the one poor, like Jesus talked about in the Beatitudes. He was a believer, and that's why he's in Abraham's bosom.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." ~Matthew 5:3

Remember Lazarus was raised after being dead 3 days

Jhn 12:9
Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.

This commentator relates Lazarus to the non-Jewish Gentiles, which I found rather fascinating..

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:20
"But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table.
Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores." (NKJV)

In contrast to the rich man, we now see Lazarus. The first thing to note is that he is depicted as a beggar. This is an apt description of the Gentiles who "laid at the gate" of Judah. Paul describes the predicament of the Gentiles before they accepted the Messiah in his letter to the Ephesians:

This Scripture is also a fitting representation of the position of the nations before the Messiah's sacrifice for the world's sins. They were certainly "excluded from the commonwealth of Israel," "strangers to the covenants of promise," and "without hope and without God in the world." The Gentiles were beggars, located outside Judah and longing to be fed spiritual crumbs from the table of the divinely blessed Jews.
Additionally, we are told that dogs came and consoled Lazarus in his misery, licking his sores. The Jews considered the surrounding Gentiles to be unclean "dogs." Even Yeshua himself used this unflattering comparison when he conversed with the Greek Syrophoenician woman while in the region of Tyre (Mark 7:24-30).
Also important to the story is the meaning of the name Lazarus. This Greek name is a form of the Hebrew Eleazer, and it literally means "he whom God helps." The use of this particular name is very significant to the message of the parable, for the Gentiles would indeed become "those whom God helped" through the sacrifice of His son, Yeshua.

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brinny · Mar 18, 2013

not sure it's the same Lazarus.....Jesus' friend wasn't ever a beggar, and had sores that the dogs licked, did he? (wait a minute, am i mixin' him up with Job?)

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 19, 2013

brinny said:
not sure it's the same Lazarus.....Jesus' friend wasn't ever a beggar, and had sores that the dogs licked, did he? (wait a minute, am i mixin' him up with Job?)

Not sure either.
Anyone else here have an opinion on that?

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TamaraLynne · Mar 19, 2013

Hmmm...I have had questions in the past as if the Lazarus in the parable was the same Lazarus Jesus rose from the dead.

Researching it seemed far beyond my capabilities. But I did just look up things on beggers and the poor and in the old testament it is almost unheard of to be a begger and the poor existed everywhere.

Le 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

Le 19:10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Even the one one betrayed Jesus was angry about the oil that was used on Jesus feet and he asked why it was not sold and the profits given to the poor. The oil had been hidden away for the time of Jesus death.

So we see that the poor were taken care of.

I like to look beyond the physical and go into the spiritual meaning as far as the word poor is to mean.

In the story of the rich man that would not take up his cross also would not have given all his wealth but I'm sure he would have given a portion as is in the law.

And if Lazarus was poor then according to the one who betrayed Jesus would the oil not have been sold and the profits given to Lazarus? If he was poor.? I'm a bit confused.

Rich Man of Luke 16 symbolizes House of Judah, the Jews?

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