What are we restoring?

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Steve.Page

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I used to attend an RM church, I am now Anglican.

Until I left I never knew about the history of the early church. So how do you guys reconcile things like the Didache and other 1st century Christian writings? For example the Didache says

- baptize in flowing water, yet many RM baptize in tubs and standing water
- pray the Lords Prayer three times daily
- appoint bishops and deacons

I don't see how early Christians could have gotten these things so wrong, but 18th century Scots and Americans found the real answers.
RM churches refer to the New Testament, the Didache is not inspired by the Spirit.

I haven't read the Didache in a while but I believe it says "baptize in living water" which could be taken to mean immersion in any water that is not stagnant.

RM churches do elect deacons and elders. That word bishop is a transliteration of a word from the Greek text, it seems it was used in the KJV to validate the position of Bishop in the Church of England. The better word is elder.

We should pray continually.
 
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AllanV

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The Church in this period gradually began to realize that the patterns of OT worship were to be followed in the NT but with greater understanding of how Christ fulfilled the types and images. Thus the three-fold structure of sin offering, ascension offering, and fellowship offering became the essence of NT worship. Confession of sin and profession of our forgiveness in Christ, the lamb of God, had to be done BEFORE we could be cut up and arranged on the altar as an ascension offering. The ascension offering, the early church understood, symbolized the orderly ascension of the sacrificed believer into Christ and thus to God Himself. Only then could we eat the fellowship meal with God, after we recognized our standing in Christ as forgiven sinners and had the cutting edge of the Word applied to our lives. Having ascended into heaven as the ascension offering, we could have a fellowship meal with Him.
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The problem is Satan and his demons are not recognized as to how they obscure the truth. There is an influence in the individual mind that is never properly taken care of and this leads to sin. Think about your own thoughts and behavior when comfortable, untested and then when tested in a situation that perhaps includes the emotions. There could be temptation or prompting to say something that shouldn't be or even act out physically.

Even saying something that indulges the ego defiles the temple because it comes from the heart. The personality has a certain harshness that shows in the voice and is read by observers in the body language. The person is enslaved in responses and demeanor that have been established by life experience and genetics.

Satan and his demons are never dealt with. The hereditary line has to change entirely and not superficially. The way to do this is lead by the Holy Spirit. In a process of purifying, the mind is cleared and then the nature of Jesus covers. The rebellious nature is completely taken care of. God will indwell powerfully in a nature that could never be found because it is incomprehensible to the usual mind. The energy proceeding out of the person is different. There is no hard heart.

Some will attack this when it is sensed and some will respond.

New members are babes but maturity is something else entirely.
In engineering when there are huge faults developed it is best to start again. Scrap everything and start again. But even here there are expensive patch ups. Modern Christianity is a bit like this. It is so messed up there is no repair, too many deceptive doctrines are being preached by those who have experienced nothing.

The question could be asked do they have the Holy Spirit, obviously not then what is leading them. If it is their own minds then it must be Satan and his demons.
 
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the didache has some good idea's for worship but there is areason its not adhered to religously. parts of it do directly contradict scripture. all the requirements before baptism are one example. in many cases thats not a bad idea, but many in scripture heard the word and were baptized immediatly. it also says if possible baptize im flowing water, but if not in still cold water, if not then warm water. if thats not possible then pour water three times over their head.3 buckets or jugs of water would be enough normally to cover the whole body. one date for it is between 65-80 CE(Christian Era)
 
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rea98d

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I'm new to this forum, but I've spent my entire life as a member of the Church of Christ, even graduating from Abilene Christian University.

To answer the original question, what is the restoration movement trying to restore? The short answer is "The church, as described in the New Testament".

Do a google search on "The Last Will and Testament of the Springfield Presbytery." It was written by some of the men who started the restoration movement, and will probably answer your question.

And now, for my own version of the history of the RM. (Warning! I am very long-winded!)

Ever since the "Protestant Reformation". it seems like more and more denominations began popping up, calling each other heretics, so on and so forth.

By the time you got to the American frontier in the early 1800s (Which, at the time, was Kentucky), you had so many different "churches" that someone looking for the "one true church" would give themselves a headache trying to figure out what every group that called themselves "Christians" beleived, and trying to sort through it all.

Add to this that the American Frontier was so far removed from traditional centers of culture and learning that classically trained seminarians were scarce, and you get a situation where a lot of people were left with just the bible to figure out how this "Chruch thing" was supposed to work. And what they discovered was that there was a lot of politics, inter-denominational warfare, name calling, and outright hatred among different groups all claiming to follow the same Jesus. So, these independent-minded Americans, with just the bible for their guide, decided to throw out the last 1800 years, and start over. No denominational names, no divisions, no creeds...their idea was "Let's just start with a blank piece of paper and use only what the NT says about church."

However, as with all things done by mortal men, mistakes were made, error creeped in, and sins were commited. Pride crept into the organization. "We're following the NT exactly, the Baptists/Methodists/Pentecostals/Presbyterians/Woeverists aren't. Therefore, they must be wrong." "They're wrong, so their denomination must not be the church Christ established." "They're not going to the "real" church, so they must all be going to hell." And so the progression goes.

There was also disagreement as to what a restored church should look like. Some felt like if the bible did not specifically authorize something, it must not be allowed. Others felt if the bible did not specifically proscribe something, it should be permitted.

Perhaps the most visible example of this is in instrumental worship. Some felt if God had intended for the Chruch to us instruments, he would have specifically authorized it in his scriptures. Others felt if God had considered instrumental music a sin, he would have specifically banned it.

This difference in philosophies led to the split between Christian Churches and Churches of Christ in 1906. (Actually, the split happened long before that. But 1906 ws when everyone recognized it and made it "official"). The idea of only being permitted to practice what was specifically authorized in scripture permiated a lot of Chruches of Christ through most of the 20th century, and led to the rise of all kinds of questionable ideas, such as proscriptions not just on instrumental music, but paid ministers, meals in the church building, Sunday School classes before worship, supporting missionaires, schools, orphanages, ect, that were not a part of your local congregation...the list goes on and on. With no official governing body stating what the CHurches of Christ officially beleive (which I think is a good thing), the degree to which different congragations subscribed to these beleifs varied, and the most restrictive were practiced only by a small but vocal subset of the Churches of Christ, but the Church gradually adopted the mentality that they were the only ones doing it right, and everyone else was going to hell, and in doing so, the Church of Christ essentially turned into the very thing it was founded to erase-just another divisive faction within God's Church at large.

Fortunately, any time you have a large group of people staunchly devoted to studying and following the word of God, the Spirit shows up and teaches people how they should live, and in the last 30 or 40 years, the "us only" mentality within the Church of Christ has begun to fade. I won't lie and say it has completely gone away. but there is a new openness that you wouldn't have found in a Church of Christ in the 1950s. Some Churches of Christ have even begun embracing instrumental music (gasp!). You will now see Churches of Christ using bible study materials writen by "denomination" preachers, which would have been unheard of 50 years ago. I was raised in the Church of Christ, and I'm still a member, and this growing sense of openness and acceptance of other denominations is something I am a firm beleiver in, and a movement I intend to work toward furthering. I see it as the Church of Christ's return to its roots as a group that transcends denominations. In a way, the modern "Non-Denominational" churches you see more and more of are nothing more than congregations participating in their own, private versions of the Restoration Movement, while skipping 150 years of baggage associated with the Stone-Campbell movement.

I was raised by a God-fearing, Bible believing grandmother who did everything in her power to raise me as a Christian. And, God bless her soul, she beleived the Church of Christ was the only Church "doing it right." I remember listening to many of her lectures on what was wrong with denominational Christianity. I was also cursed with an unfortunate ability to think for myself. My grandfather's entire family consisted of very devout Southern Baptists. I remember one visit to a great uncle who lived in Russelville, Arkansas. It was Wednesday night, so we went to church with him. I missed the sign on the door, and participated in an entire bible class assuiming I was in a Church of Christ. After class, we met in the auditorium for worship, and out of the blue clear sky, and organ began playing! I had sat through an entire bible class in a Baptist church, and discovered that they studied the same bible the same way "we" read it.

A few years later, I was sitting in my own familiar Church of Christ classroom, and out youth minister began a series on why the Church of Christ beleived the things it did. I remember well the night he taught about instrumental music. I had, up until that point, always assumed it was a sin because that was what I was brought up beleiving. But after hearing that lesson, I was thinking, "Seriously? That's all you got? We make a big deal about something the bible is silent on?" There I go, thinking for myself again.

My biggest awakening came in college. Despite attending a Church of Christ affiliated university, many of my classmates were from other denominations. I had a friend who was Methodist. I went to church with her once. Now, I could pick apart Methodist beleifs and tell you why I'm not Methodist, but what I remember most about that day was sitting in a room full of people who were desperately longing for God, reading his book, and trying to follow it. And if I think "they" are doing it "wrong," well, it's not my palce to judge, or to say how much grace God will give to cover their mistakes. Especially since I want God's grace for my own mistakes. My room mate was Baptist. One of the guys in my dorm was Catholic. I met people of all different denominations, all trying to find God and follow Jesus.

I came to the conclusion that, once I realize the Church of Christ is not perfect, and needs God's grace, I am compelled to extend that grace to other Christians who are not in the Church of Christ, and accept them as brothers in Christ.

Even saying that, I don't beleive that grace absolves us of the duty of actually studying the bible, and trying to pattern our churches accordingly. However, such study and teaching needs to be done in love, grace and humility, and in such a way that, even if I have deep-seated theological differences with the Methodists that may mean I don't identify with that particular group, I still accept them as brothers and sisters in Christ, and I recognize that whatever sins I see (or think I see) in their church are no worse than my own sins, and no worse than the Church of Christ's sins. Different sins, maybe, but no worse.
 
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heapshake

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I'm new to this forum, but I've spent my entire life as a member of the Church of Christ, even graduating from Abilene Christian University.

Welcome to the forum. This forum doesn't get much action anymore, but it is good to see new folks. I'm also a life long CoC member and a Harding graduate.
 
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i believe that what weare restoring is a wholehearted, everyday transformation from creatures of flesh to creatures of the Spirit. making disciples of Jesus, ones who imitate the teacher,Jesus. who must live in the world but are not part of the world. that our every bit of life is meant to serve the Lord and nring glory tothe Father. the followers or disciples of Jesus were called christians, readily recognized as diferent from the world. this is what we must restore. not certain days to gather, not wether or not we use the instruments that David did in our praise, but a change in our hearts, a real love for one another, a wholehearted love, awe, and respect for God. i don't see all of it in many churches, but they had it in the first church.
 
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The fundamentalists have pretty much destroyed churches where I live. Chaos, cruelty, child abuse, and drug addiction are their fruits. When I was a youth, I stunned 'Bible Thumpers' by going by the New Testament alone. I never done drugs, stolen anything of value[getting confused over the company fridge at lunch is not theft]murdered anybody, bullied anybody, or abused pets.

Our community went to pieces when the fundamentalist craze hit[about latter 1980s]. People abused Eternal Security, and the preachers only preach about whipping kids. Meanwhile, the adults have built I-79 to Hell, seducing wives and husbands, abusing pets, and cheating others at business in a knowingly and willfully manner.

I can't serve two masters. I go by the New Testament. I cannot find it in my heart to condemn somebody just because their Bible is NIV or their wife bear hunts and wears a layered haircut. I have been questioned because I take dogs and cats to the vet. I am imperfect, but feel that to joyfully car chase sin risks eternal damnation by alienating the lost.

I welcome the Restoration Movement as an ally in repairing a sin-wrecked world.
 
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Brother P

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Hello everyone!

I always felt that a restoration "movement" was not so much a physical movement, but rather a spiritual movement (as has been hinted at in 2 other recent posts).

When you look at the pattern Jesus set, he brought what could be called a spiritual revolution. This revolution wasn't so much a religion, it was a personal faith. So, instead of it all being about the church (temple), or the nation (group), or the structure (e.g. priesthood) it became about your personal salvation. It became about your relationship with God (He is your Father who cares affectionately for you, not a tyrannical, jealous dictator). It became about your relationship with others (brotherhood).

So the clue in how to restore Jesus' original movement is not so much emulating the early church movement/structure, but rather getting back to the pure, unadulterated teachings of Jesus. That is the "secret" to Christian unity (e.g. principles based upon love, as opposed to the minutiae of doctrine/creed and human tradition). It's not about religion as we see it today (sectarianism). Jesus' teachings were extremely basic and was about character change, changing our perception of God, looking to and living by the spirit and it's realities instead of flesh.

Notice how Jesus broke the moors and taboos of the day:

E.g.

(John 4:9) The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Then notice what happened when religious pride/bigotry came into the situation:

(John 4:19, 20) “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshipped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

How did Jesus respond?

(John 4:21-24) “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

In other words, it's not about the church (physical movement), the procedures, the structure, the traditions...that is, outwards manifestations, but rather about your personal faith. This is genuine (from the heart), it is based upon spirit (not which church you attend), it is truth (which is an experience not just knowledge, e.g. loving someone is not something you just read about in a book).
 
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Argonath

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Brothers and sisters,
I believe the Spirit of God is moving in His people to bring repentance and a real restoration. This restoration is a return to the scriptures without our shallow, simplistic, democratic, American biases. It is a restoration of the unity the Church once knew as she carried out the worship He prescribed.

Let me recommend that you investigate Covenant Renewal Worship.
There is an amazing book on this subject entitled The Lord's Service, by Jeffery Meyers.
 
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i do recommend that people visit other churches, evem a weekly bible study at another church. ussually a church has been afraid of doing that. fearing theyay lose people, or that their people will become "corupted" but if they are teaching sound bible, and sticking to the bible they have nothing to fear. it can and does promote unity in Jesus church. i have seen churches where it was actually forbidden to attend other churches,say they weren't part of Christs church. they sometimes become cults or just die out
 
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pdfiddler

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i believe that what weare restoring is a wholehearted, everyday transformation from creatures of flesh to creatures of the Spirit. making disciples of Jesus, ones who imitate the teacher,Jesus. who must live in the world but are not part of the world. that our every bit of life is meant to serve the Lord and nring glory tothe Father. the followers or disciples of Jesus were called christians, readily recognized as diferent from the world. this is what we must restore. not certain days to gather, not wether or not we use the instruments that David did in our praise, but a change in our hearts, a real love for one another, a wholehearted love, awe, and respect for God. i don't see all of it in many churches, but they had it in the first church.
:clap:
 
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pdfiddler

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i do recommend that people visit other churches, evem a weekly bible study at another church. ussually a church has been afraid of doing that. fearing theyay lose people, or that their people will become "corupted" but if they are teaching sound bible, and sticking to the bible they have nothing to fear. it can and does promote unity in Jesus church. i have seen churches where it was actually forbidden to attend other churches,say they weren't part of Christs church. they sometimes become cults or just die out
"Promotes unity in the church". Unfortunately, unity like tying the tails of two cats together.:yum:
 
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Trailltrader

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This is my first visit to this group. I've always been interested in church restoration. My question is, what is this religious movement trying to restore? It would seem that we would have to have a goal in mind.

Is the goal to restore the primitive church? I'm all for that, but the primitive church was very liturgical. Are we restoring liturgical programs? Are we restoring apostolic succession? What is the goal?

Ken

The history of the Restoration Movement started roughly some 400ish years or so ago and the idea was to obey, preach and teach and to be like how the Church was as Jesus originally set it up some 2,000 years or so ago.

Modern Christianity is radically different than what it was some 500 years ago, and has become totally twisted from what Jesus originally taught and how he lived.

Example: The early church didn't use musical instruments because the sound of musical instruments travel much farther than that of the human voice- and in the first century, singing about God and caught by the Roman government was a good way to become an martyr.

So, should a modern church use musical instruments? I was brought up in the Church of Christ- a very fundamental, basic, acapella (voice only) worship service. The wife (We're in our mid 50's) grew up in the Assembly of God where the use of instruments was normal. Then we both went to a very "radical" church where they literally rocked out like a rock concert!

After 40 years I've come up with a solution; all music is permissible on the grounds that if you're uncomfortable you won't be able to worship G-d with a full and loving heart. I like Acapella music. I like some instruments. I've enjoyed "rockin out head banging metal CHRISTIAN music".
 
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