Enoch- the forgotten.

Faith.Man · Jan 6, 2013

Yahu said:

Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

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So you're arguing everything died including Noah and his family, because that's what you would be arguing if you took this passage out of context.

Yahu said:

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

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So once again, you're arguing everything died including Noah and his family, because that's what you would be arguing if you took these passages out of context.

Yahu said:
No I'm not denying scripture. I have clearly presented how there were Nephilim both before the flood and after without the need for them to survive the flood thereby contradicting scripture. There was a 2nd group of angels that brought the Nephilim corruption after the flood, the tares. The Tares had to be sown after the flood. There is a 2nd group of angels bound at the Euphrates (Rev) verses the 1st group being in Tartarus (2 Pet 2).

Your error here is you're taking New Testament events and pretending they are known in OT times, and not in a prophetic way.

Yahu said:

Re 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

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Your error here again and elsewhere is you're taking New Testament prophetic events and pretending they are known in OT times, and not in a prophetic way.

Yahu said:

2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

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Yahu said:
(These are clearly the angels that sinned before the flood.)

Yahu said:
This is clearly presented in scripture. What isn't presented is the reason the 2nd group was imprisoned yet we know why the 1st group was and that there was Nephilim corruption after the flood that was allowed to stay. It is only logical to assume the error of the 2nd group was the source of the post flood corruption. It is also confirmed by the other religions that sprang up at that time.

I only use the Bible. I care not what other religions say.

Yahu said:
Jude also states that ALL angels that left their 1st estate are bound. This includes BOTH groups. There are no fallen angels that are not in prison until the tribulation period. The demonic realms are made up of spirits/ghosts of the dead. Many of the major principalities are spirits of dead Nephilim.

So you're arguing Satan was not a fallen angel?

Yahu said:
The ancient paganism was the worship of angels and their nephlilim offspring as well as ancestor worship, ie spirits of the dead. For example 'El' does NOT mean 'god'. It means 'mighty' or when used by itself means 'the mighty one' and what mighty one being talked about is based on the context. Noah was called El for example. Bethel (house of El) was Noah's house. Each nation had their own El, ie the father of their nation. Noah is also sometimes called El Elyon, the mightiest of the mighty ones. El and Asherah worship was the worship of Noah and his wife. Some of the pagans worshiped an angel that they called El.

And where do you find this in the Bible? Cite.

Yahu said:
Claiming the flood was just a local flood directly contradicts scripture. The flood destroyed ALL life on the earth save those protected in the Ark.

No, it does not, and many learned Christians believe as I do. I did not originate this analysis of scripture.

Yahu · Jan 6, 2013

Faith.Man said:
Show me where in scripture the Jews of Noah's time had a concept of the Earth as a planet.

Your point is irrelevant. Scripture is the Word of Yah. He knows that the earth is a planet and He is the source of the scriptures. Genesis wasn't written in it's current form until Moses. What was the view in Mose's day? Who cares! Yah dictated it to Moses either directly at the mountain or through the Holy Spirit's guidance. Your looking at scripture from man's perspective instead of from the source.

You are just looking for excuses not to believe Yah's word. You hold the traditions and teachings of man over the word of Yah and are trying to justify and propagate that deception.

Now Erets in scripture is also a nickname/title of Asherah, ie 'mother earth' and yes the Greeks called her Gaia and/or Leto depending on which group the mythology came from.

The divine origin of Genesis is easy to see even in Gen 1:1. Yeshua is the 'aleph-tav' of Gen 1:1. There is an untranslated word in the Hebrew, used twice. It is used as a pointer to the action of the verb. It is made up of the first and last letter of Hebrew. It is equivalent to the alpha-omega in Greek. It is through that WORD that all creation was conducted. Yeshua is the aleph-tav, ie alpha-omega of Gen 1:1. The positions of that word also correspond with the period in time during the week (7000 years) of man that Yeshua comes. He came in the 4th day and will come again right before the 7th day, the 1000 year Sabbath. The paleo-hebrew word picture is a symbol of Yah (aleph) and the cross (tav) so means 'strength of the covenant' or 'God on the cross'.

If you don't accept the divine origin of scripture, there is no point in a discussion. Who cares what the common understand of man was in the days of Noah? It is irrelevant.

Faith.Man · Jan 6, 2013

Yahu said:
Your point is irrelevant. Scripture is the Word of Yah. He knows that the earth is a planet and He is the source of the scriptures. Genesis wasn't written in it's current form until Moses. What was the view in Mose's day? Who cares! Yah dictated it to Moses either directly at the mountain or through the Holy Spirit's guidance. Your looking at scripture from man's perspective instead of from the source.

You are just looking for excuses not to believe Yah's word. You hold the traditions and teachings of man over the word of Yah and are trying to justify and propagate that deception.

Now Erets in scripture is also a nickname/title of Asherah, ie 'mother earth' and yes the Greeks called her Gaia and/or Leto depending on which group the mythology came from.

The divine origin of Genesis is easy to see even in Gen 1:1. Yeshua is the 'aleph-tav' of Gen 1:1. There is an untranslated word in the Hebrew, used twice. It is used as a pointer to the action of the verb. It is made up of the first and last letter of Hebrew. It is equivalent to the alpha-omega in Greek. It is through that WORD that all creation was conducted. Yeshua is the aleph-tav, ie alpha-omega of Gen 1:1. The positions of that word also correspond with the period in time during the week (7000 years) of man that Yeshua comes. He came in the 4th day and will come again right before the 7th day, the 1000 year Sabbath. The paleo-hebrew word picture is a symbol of Yah (aleph) and the cross (tav) so means 'strength of the covenant' or 'God on the cross'.

If you don't accept the divine origin of scripture, there is no point in a discussion. Who cares what the common understand of man was in the days of Noah? It is irrelevant.

Each 24 hour day does not equal 1000 years. You are taking scripture out of context again.

Yahu · Jan 6, 2013

Faith.Man said:
Show me where in scripture the Jews of Noah's time had a concept of the Earth as a planet.

LOL!

There was no such thing as a Jew in Noah's day! The Jews are the tribes that are descent from the nation of Judah, ie Judah, Benjamin and a portion of the Levites.

Abraham didn't exist until 10 generations after Noah!

There were no JEWS to have a concept of the earth as a planet at that time of Noah. The Jews (of Judah) were Israelites (descent of Jacob) that were Hebrews (descent of Heber/Eber). They were all descent through the priestly line of Shem from Noah. Noah isn't a Jew. He is the father of ALL nations of man. The Jews are a subset of the Hebrew nation.

Yahu · Jan 6, 2013

Faith.Man said:
Each 24 hour day does not equal 1000 years. You are taking scripture out of context again.

I didn't say it did but Yah works on a time table. The Millennium will be the 1000 year Sabbath. We haven't reached the 6000th year of creation.

The actual age of man is just the 1st 6000 years. That is the period of time He will strive with man, ie 120 Jubilees. The word for 'period of time' is translated as years in your standard English translations but it doesn't mean year.

Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This passage has nothing to do with how long an individual man lives but the entire age of mankind, 6000 years, 120 jubilees. The life spans before and after the flood exceeded 120 years and now are shorter then 120 years.

Yahu · Jan 6, 2013

Faith.Man said:
So you're arguing everything died including Noah and his family, because that's what you would be arguing if you took this passage out of context.

So once again, you're arguing everything died including Noah and his family, because that's what you would be arguing if you took these passages out of context.

Do you honestly need me to post the scriptures that give the exceptions pertaining to Noah, his household and the animals? Let me guess, your a legalistic Presbyterian?

Faith.Man said:
So you're arguing Satan was not a fallen angel?
[COLOR=Da
rkGreen]And where do you find this in the Bible? Cite.[/COLOR]

First of Satan or more correctly HaSatan is not an individual's name. It is a title. It is the prosecutor in the divine counsel. Nothing states that the same individual has always held that title.

Now if you equate some being called Lucifer as the current Satan it is easy to prove.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

The Hebrew is 'Heylel ben Shachar'. Do you even have a clue who Shachar was that Heylel is his son? Or the 'fiery flying serpent' that is the son of the cockatrice? Here is a clue, look in Job 38. Another thing to realize is the Hebrew word Shamayim translated here as Heaven means 'heavens' and that includes the sky and the realm of the stars and doesn't imply the realm of Yah. He was cast from the sky, not the 3rd heaven. The passage is about the shameful king of Babel, the casting down of the tower and the death of that shameful king.

Of course there are several problems. 1st off there never was an individual named Lucifer. It isn't a name. It wasn't even capitolized in the Latin. It wasn't until the English kept the Latin word and turned it into a proper name of an individual. Now the people of Isiah's day would know who Shachar was. He was a Canaanite deity. Shachar was the angel that led the stars in song at the creation of the earth. Shachar was the individual assigned to shake the wicked out of the skirts of the earth.

Heylel wasn't a name in Hebrew but a title of the ancient pagan sun god. It is the equivalent title of Pheobus in the Greek which is an epitaph of Apollo or as Revelation calls him Apollyon. No he isn't a fallen angel. He is the son of a fallen angel. Shachar in the Canaanite pantheon was 'Ben Elohyim'. The Greeks called him Zeus and Pheobus his son was who you would know of as Apollo. He is the spirit of a dead Nephilim that holds the office of the accusor in the divine counsel.

HaSatan can't be a fallen angel without contradicting Peter and Jude. Now Zeus/Shachar was a former Satan at least up until the time of Babel when he was cast down and imprisoned. He was the one that fell 'as lightning'. The Syrians called him Hadad (Hadad Rimmon), the thunderer, the god of lightning and thunder.

Faith.Man said:
No, it does not, and many learned Christians believe as I do. I did not originate this analysis of scripture.

Of course not, you just spread their deception and compromises with the traditions of man instead of having the Holy Spirit as your teacher.

JHM · Jan 6, 2013

Sadly, you are both wrong to some degree. What really happened was the "Fallen Angels" had sex with human women who bore children by them; and this went on for quite some time. The "Fallen Angels" arrived in the days of Jared, Enoch's father, which is to say not less than 460 years after Adam was created, and not more than 1422 after Adam was created. Probably in the range from 460 years after Adam was created to about 850 years after Adam was created, since Eve was still alive to be "seduced", - (Raped ?), by one of them.

But Noah wasn't born until 1056 years after Adam was created, and the "Flood" did not occur till Noah was 600 years old, so for roughly 806 years to 1196 years there was crossbreeding going on between the offspring of the "Fallen Angels" and the original human race. And in that time span, I suspect that there were relatively few purebred original humans left on earth.

That being the case, there is a fair degree of likelyhood that one of Noah's three daughters in law, was a "Crossbreed", and in that manner, the corrupted strain survived the flood which was global, and destroyed all lfe on earth, except for those in the "Ark".

Ronald · Jan 6, 2013

ACTRAISEROtto said:
ACTRAISEROtto said:

And to also shed light on the ''sons of god''

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Hi Otto,
I spent many years following Chuck Missler, seeing him, buying his tapes and learned a lot. At the time, I had no reason to argue with this genius. But now I see Gen. 6 literally and in context it goes like this:
vs 1 is an opening introduction and premise of the topic which speaks of mankind multipying.
vs 2 "sons of God" is a reference to man. The Bible never refers to women as daughters of God, it's always daughters of men and this is why it is used. We are adopted sons of God, but men.
vs 4 My Spirit does not strive in man to the age, they are flesh and his days are 120 years.
vs. 5 Man is fallen and has become wicked.
vs. 6 God grieves
vs. 7 God passes judgment to destroy life

The second point I'd like to make is Angels cannot create life! Only God creates human life in us and through us. Angels can appear as men, but not procreate. Doesn't God knit us together in our mothers womb? The implication of Him creating and knitting together a hybrid angel/human in the womb is really where the idea falls apart.

Yahu · Jan 6, 2013

JHM said:
Sadly, you are both wrong to some degree. What really happened was the "Fallen Angels" had sex with human women who bore children by them; and this went on for quite some time. The "Fallen Angels" arrived in the days of Jared, Enoch's father, which is to say not less than 460 years after Adam was created, and not more than 1422 after Adam was created. Probably in the range from 460 years after Adam was created to about 850 years after Adam was created, since Eve was still alive to be "seduced", - (Raped ?), by one of them.

But Noah wasn't born until 1056 years after Adam was created, and the "Flood" did not occur till Noah was 600 years old, so for roughly 806 years to 1196 years there was crossbreeding going on between the offspring of the "Fallen Angels" and the original human race. And in that time span, I suspect that there were relatively few purebred original humans left on earth.

That being the case, there is a fair degree of likelyhood that one of Noah's three daughters in law, was a "Crossbreed", and in that manner, the corrupted strain survived the flood which was global, and destroyed all lfe on earth, except for those in the "Ark".

WHAT? Where in the world do you get the idea that Eve had children by one of the Watchers?

It wasn't Eve but the 2nd Eve so to speak, ie Noah's wife Na'amah that had children by an angel. Noah's sons married 3 of his nieces I think according to other Hebrew histories. They certainly were not of a nephilim line and were sisters.

Do you honestly think Yah would destroy all life except for Noah and his household to wipe out the Nephilim corruption then allow it on the ark? or allow the same angels the ability to bring that same corruption after the flood? That is stupidity and Yah is NOT stupid. The Nephilim corruption was wiped out 100% by the flood.

How you get the idea that Eve had any children by angels is absolute nonsense. There is nothing to suggest that while there is plenty of evidence to support that Na'amah did. For example the Sumerian Anunaki were the children of Anu (Heavens) and Ki (earth). If you look up the consorts of Anu you will find Ki and Nammu (Namma) or Na'amah in the Hebrew, the sister of Tubal-Cain. Now Na'amah's nickname was 'earth'. She is the 'field' that Satan sowed his seed in after the 'son of man'. This occurred after the 'uncovering his nakedness' story of Noah. He was castrated by Canaan.

Na'amah and Ki were just two names of the same individual just as Leto and Gaia were the same individual under two different Greek names as well as being the same woman Na'amah. Noah's wife was the wife of Uranus in the Greek mythologies. She was also the mother of Apollo and Artemis.

Noah was ordered to have more children directly by Yah. His wife resisted so he was going to take additional wives. The only women were his granddaughters when they were of age. His sons and grandsons resisted the idea. Canaan went beyond resistance, got Noah drunk and castrated Noah in a plot with Na'amah and the angel Euphrates that had guarded Eden pre-flood. Euphrates got Na'amah pregnant. That angel is who the Sumerians called Anu. The Canaanites called him Shachar or 'El'. The syrians called him Hadad. The Greeks called him Zeus.

Na'amah had twins, who became the pagan sun god and moon goddess. It was the female twin that was Nimrod's mother at Babel, ie the 'queen of heaven' who is called the harlot of Babylon in Revelation. She is the primary goddess of witchcraft as well as the mother of Sidon by Canaan. A child by her was his payment for castrating Noah.

Nimrod set up his mother and uncle as gods at Babel along with the 4 angels and their other offspring. They led the rebellion against Noah. Yah cast down the Tower, imprisoned the 4 angels that caused the problem. The children took over their roles on earth. Those 4 angels, were replaced by the 4 winds/spirits. The Canaanites worshiped them as Molech, Ashtoreth, Baal and Asherah. Asherah was just Na'amah worshiped as mother of all mankind and the gods with a title of 'she who treads upon the sea'.

Molech is who christians call Lucifer. Baal is the spirit of Nimrod who is the anti-christ spirit. Asherah is 'mother earth' a lesser goddess of witchcraft and her daughter Ashtoreth is the primary goddess of witchcraft. The 3 of Nephilim descent are the unholy trinity with Asherah being a lesser principality because she is only human but in authority over the others as mother or grandmother.

Faith.Man · Jan 7, 2013

JHM said:
Sadly, you are both wrong to some degree. What really happened was the "Fallen Angels" had sex with human women who bore children by them; and this went on for quite some time. The "Fallen Angels" arrived in the days of Jared, Enoch's father, which is to say not less than 460 years after Adam was created, and not more than 1422 after Adam was created. Probably in the range from 460 years after Adam was created to about 850 years after Adam was created, since Eve was still alive to be "seduced", - (Raped ?), by one of them.

But Noah wasn't born until 1056 years after Adam was created, and the "Flood" did not occur till Noah was 600 years old, so for roughly 806 years to 1196 years there was crossbreeding going on between the offspring of the "Fallen Angels" and the original human race. And in that time span, I suspect that there were relatively few purebred original humans left on earth.

That being the case, there is a fair degree of likelyhood that one of Noah's three daughters in law, was a "Crossbreed", and in that manner, the corrupted strain survived the flood which was global, and destroyed all lfe on earth, except for those in the "Ark".

Wow, that's a leap without biblical support. So what was the point of Noah's Flood?

Faith.Man · Jan 7, 2013

Yahu said:
Your point is irrelevant. Scripture is the Word of Yah. He knows that the earth is a planet and He is the source of the scriptures. Genesis wasn't written in it's current form until Moses. What was the view in Mose's day? Who cares! Yah dictated it to Moses either directly at the mountain or through the Holy Spirit's guidance. Your looking at scripture from man's perspective instead of from the source.

You are just looking for excuses not to believe Yah's word. You hold the traditions and teachings of man over the word of Yah and are trying to justify and propagate that deception.

Now Erets in scripture is also a nickname/title of Asherah, ie 'mother earth' and yes the Greeks called her Gaia and/or Leto depending on which group the mythology came from.

The divine origin of Genesis is easy to see even in Gen 1:1. Yeshua is the 'aleph-tav' of Gen 1:1. There is an untranslated word in the Hebrew, used twice. It is used as a pointer to the action of the verb. It is made up of the first and last letter of Hebrew. It is equivalent to the alpha-omega in Greek. It is through that WORD that all creation was conducted. Yeshua is the aleph-tav, ie alpha-omega of Gen 1:1. The positions of that word also correspond with the period in time during the week (7000 years) of man that Yeshua comes. He came in the 4th day and will come again right before the 7th day, the 1000 year Sabbath. The paleo-hebrew word picture is a symbol of Yah (aleph) and the cross (tav) so means 'strength of the covenant' or 'God on the cross'.

If you don't accept the divine origin of scripture, there is no point in a discussion. Who cares what the common understand of man was in the days of Noah? It is irrelevant.

You cannot explain it so it's irrelevent. Good debating tactic.

Faith.Man · Jan 7, 2013

Yahu said:
LOL!

There was no such thing as a Jew in Noah's day! The Jews are the tribes that are descent from the nation of Judah, ie Judah, Benjamin and a portion of the Levites.

Abraham didn't exist until 10 generations after Noah!

There were no JEWS to have a concept of the earth as a planet at that time of Noah. The Jews (of Judah) were Israelites (descent of Jacob) that were Hebrews (descent of Heber/Eber). They were all descent through the priestly line of Shem from Noah. Noah isn't a Jew. He is the father of ALL nations of man. The Jews are a subset of the Hebrew nation.

Your post is irrelevent. Whether I said ancestors of the Jewish poeple or not. Your post evades the question because you haven't made up an answer yet.

Faith.Man · Jan 7, 2013

Yahu said:
I didn't say it did but Yah works on a time table. The Millennium will be the 1000 year Sabbath. We haven't reached the 6000th year of creation.

The actual age of man is just the 1st 6000 years. That is the period of time He will strive with man, ie 120 Jubilees. The word for 'period of time' is translated as years in your standard English translations but it doesn't mean year.

Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This passage has nothing to do with how long an individual man lives but the entire age of mankind, 6000 years, 120 jubilees. The life spans before and after the flood exceeded 120 years and now are shorter then 120 years.

Your ignorance of science is only exceeded by your astounding ignorance of God's word!

Faith.Man · Jan 7, 2013

Yahu said:
Do you honestly need me to post the scriptures that give the exceptions pertaining to Noah, his household and the animals? Let me guess, your a legalistic Presbyterian?.

Wrong again, like you are on everything else. I am done talking with you and your false teaching.

Yahu · Jan 7, 2013

Faith.Man said:
You cannot explain it so it's irrelevent. Good debating tactic.

I can explain it but I just consider your point irrelevant.

Erets has several uses just as we use the word earth to mean soil as well as planet in English. To suggest that it only has one use is ridiculous. It has 3 to my knowledge. For example when the Israelites look to the heavens and then to the earth to be saved from being led into captivity isn't looking to the ground for help but to the deity 'mother earth', ie Asherah for help.

You have to understand the references to the pagan Rock and the Baalim worship to understand the passages.

Det 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.

The pagan rock, is the divine mother that is sometimes refereed to as Erets. Some times it talks about the drink offerings to her 'smooth stones'.

Isa 57:3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the harlot.
4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?
6 Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?

These same 'smooth stones' in the 'clefts of the rocks' is a reference to the worship of Asherah. The entire passage is about the Baalim worship in the grove and the valley below it, the valley of Hinnom. The Baalim were the entire pantheon of the pagan gods.

She is considered the 'divine mother' goddess. That is specifically linked in Jer 2.

23 How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: thou art a swift dromedary traversing her ways;
24 A wild ass used to the wilderness, that snuffeth up the wind at her pleasure; in her occasion who can turn her away? all they that seek her will not weary themselves; in her month they shall find her.
25 Withhold thy foot from being unshod, and thy throat from thirst: but thou saidst, There is no hope: no; for I have loved strangers, and after them will I go.
26 As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,
27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

The stock/tree/pole is a reference to the Asherah Poles of scripture and is a symbol of Baal as well as the goddess. The Pole aspect of it was to Baal. Do you even know what an Asherah Pole was and its uses?

There is a direct link between the terms for earth, land and a female progenitor. Before Eve was named Eve she was Adamah, the feminine form of Adam. Adamah means 'land' in Hebrew. Eve was the land and while the 2nd Eve, ie Noah's wife was also called Erats. Noah was commanded to raise up his seed and fill the earth. He filled his wife with his seed. She was the pagan rock, the sorceress, the mother of the nations of the earth. Her worship was conducted in the Groves and the valley below. The entire worship was at the locations chosen to represent 'mother earth'. It was a representation of the crotch of 'mother earth' with the trees of the grove representing her pubic hair and the cleft of the rocks in the valley below with the smooth stone was a symbol of her sex organ while the fruit of the womb were sacrificed to Molech at the sacred pool, ie the 'serpents pool'.

She is also called the 'field of the Watchers', 'field of Zophim'. That is one place that Balaam offered sacrifices on the high places of the Baalim. It was on Pisgah which is a reference to the passing in/through the 'cleft of the rock'. She is the 'field/land' where Satan sowed his seed.

Some places Erets is referenced it is a reference to this pagan deity. Your claim that it is just a reference to the local land is ridiculous. Your knowledge and understanding of the ancient paganism as presented in scripture is limited.

There are literally hundreds of passages in scripture dealing with the pagan gods and most of them go right over the readers heads. They don't have the knowledge and training to understand those passages. They don't understand who or what those pagan gods consisted of. Of course the enemy doesn't want them to know and resists any teaching exposing their secrets. The enemy wants people to think they are greater then they really are and has spent ages spreading false doctrines and misdirection.

Yahu · Jan 7, 2013

Faith.Man said:
Your ignorance of science is only exceeded by your astounding ignorance of God's word!

I have an engineering degree. I just don't agree with all the teachings of man with our limited knowledge while you want to twist Yah's word to conform to the teachings of man that are manipulated by the enemy.

Do you even read Hebrew? I took Hebrew at Lee University a few years ago to better understand scripture.

So am I ignorant of science or of scripture?

I will leave you with a few quotes from the book of Job:

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Job 26:4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 8, 2013

Isa 57:3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the harlot.
4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?

Oh the number of times I have read over this scripture with so little understanding!
You know, all of this business last year about the Mayan prophecy had one thing that bothered me. The depiction of the hideous face with the wide mouth and the tongue hanging out

ever disturbed me. But here it is, right here in scripture.It always puzzled me why the pagans used such hideousness in their worship.

Stones · Jan 8, 2013

All Scholars Agree that Enoch did not write the Books of Enoch. The watchers was written around 150bce according to "ALL" Scholars...

Most scholars agree that Genesis Chapter 6 is referring to the two bloodlines talked about right before it in chapter 5 and the Angel story is a fable made up hundreds of years later due to Jews misinterpreting Gen 6 while under Greek Occupation and greek Mythology.

Who are the Offspring of the Union???
The Giants or the Mighty Men?

They can't both be from the Union and they aren't the same thing...The Giants were in the earth already before the Union "and after that" we have the union and the Mighty Men Born...How can the Giants already be in the earth before the Union if they are the offspring of the union.
Genesis 6:4 -There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I do see that this Fallen Angel concept did spread thru Judaism with Apocalyptic Judaism around 200bce under Greek Occupation, when books like Enoch and Jubilee were written. therefore we have it also spread thru the theology of Christianity and the new testament, However, as the Church found, it is not worthy to be in the bible because clearly Enoch did not write it. it's written in 150bce by apocalyptic Jew's looking back over thousands of years and writing it as thou Enoch foresaw everything to come all the way up to the Babylonian captivity. this is how apocalyptic writing was written, in Hindsight of the events the chosen prophet foresees...

Stones · Jan 8, 2013

Look at the similarities in scripture here...

En xlvii
He sat upon the throne of his glory, while the books of the living where opened in his presance, and while all the powers which were above the heavens stood around and before him.
Rev 11: 13-15
I saw a great white throne and him that sat on itand I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne; and the books were opened and another book was opened. Which is the book of life and the dead where judged out of those things that where written in the books, according to there works.

En l
In those days shall the earth deliver up from her womb, and hell deliver up from hers, that which it has received, and destruction shall restore that which it owes, he shall select the righteous and holy from among them.
En liv
In those days shall the mouth of hell be opened into which they shall be immerged; hell shall destroy and swallow up sinners from the face of the elect.
The sea gave up the dead that where in it and death and hell delivered up the dead that where in themwho soever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

En xl 1
After this I beheld thousands of thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand, and an infinite number of people, standing before the lord of spirits.
Rev v11
I beheld and heard the voice of many angels round about the thronethe number of them was 10,000 times 10,000, and thousands of thousands.

En xlv 3
In that day shall the elect one sit upon a throne of glory and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations
Mathew 25 31-32
Then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory and before him shall be gathered all nations and he shall separate them from one another.
And John 14:2
In my father's house are many habitations.

En xlv 4
In that day I will cause my elect one to dwell in the midst of them
Rev 7:15
He that sits upon the throne shall dwell among them

En xcii 17
The former heaven shall depart and pass away and a new heaven shall appear
Rev 22:1
I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

En xlviii 1-7
In that day I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of those who drank, and were filled with wisdom, have their habitation with the righteous, the elect and the holy.
Rev 21:6 I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

En ii xxvi 2
Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.
Jude 1
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed.

So, my point hear is that TBOE is probably one of the main source of Revelations ..

Look at this apocalyptic view in Enoch, it sounds very much like Jesus apocalyptic message concerning the coming of the son of man and the end of the world in the gospels;

En lxxix
In the days of sinners the days shall be shortenedand everything done on earth shall be subverted and disappear in it's season, in those days, the fruit of the earth shall not flourish in there season. Heaven shall stand still, the moon shall change it's laws and not be seen at it's proper periods and all the classes of stars shall be shut up against sinners and trouble shall seize them when they shall behold this son of woman sitting upon the throne of his glory.

Mathew 24
There shall be famines and earthquakes in diverse places, great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, no, nor ever shall be and except those days be shortened there should be no flesh saved. immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars will fall from heaventhen shall the tribes of the earth morn and they shall see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

The question for me is;
Did Jesus read Enoch and then teach this???
Or did Jesus disciples read Enoch and then write the gospels as though Jesus said this??

Yahu · Jan 8, 2013

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Oh the number of times I have read over this scripture with so little understanding!
You know, all of this business last year about the Mayan prophecy had one thing that bothered me. The depiction of the hideous face with the wide mouth and the tongue hanging out ever disturbed me. But here it is, right here in scripture.It always puzzled me why the pagans used such hideousness in their worship.

The passage in Isa 57 is a description of the sexual practices involved in the worship of the groves and the killing of the unwanted children in the valley below. That valley was the valley of Hinnom, later called Gehenna and used as a representation of hell itself with the children burning in the fires of Molech.

You will find a mis-translation in verse 9 in many translation.

9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

The word translated 'king' here should be Molech. Both king and Molech are spelled MLK in Hebrew but just have a different vowel pointing. Molech is vowel pointed with the pattern for 'shame' making it the 'shameful king' and is used in English as a proper name of the deity. It's the same 'shameful king' of Babel in Isa 14 and the 'shameful king' of Tyrus in Eze 28.

The vowel pointing was not in the original text but was added much later by Rabbis to help with pronunciation. They mis-pointed this passage and it got carried into many English translations as 'king'.

It is specifically talking about sacrifices and offerings to Molech to summon demonic 'messenger' to send on assignment, ie ritual witchcraft. It is equated with debasing thyself unto Sheol by offering sacrifices to the shameful king of Sheol.

Now the 'idols under the green trees' were actually Asherah Poles. The word translated idol is actually tree. An Asherah Pole was made when they thinned out the 'grove'. The tree stump was left standing and carved into a phallic symbol with an image of Asherah or Astoreth carved in the shaft. It was used for public sex acts in dedication to the gods. There was also ritual prostitution as part of the worship. The sex was the lure to worship the pagan gods to commit adultery against your spouse as well as against Yah. The unwanted pregnancies in the groves were offered to Molech in the valley below.

The groves were the local night club, restaurant, strip club, harlot house and abortion clinic below it. There were 5 main pagan deities honored in the worship. The types of trees where dedicated to the pagan 'El', the father of the gods. The location was to honor Asherah. The phallic symbol was for Baal, specifically Baal-peor the 'lord of sex'. Ashtoreth was the female goddess of sexuality and of course you had Molech taking the offerings of the 1st born that was suppose to be dedicated to Yah.

Enoch- the forgotten.

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