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The Psalms were written relatively recently?
How many instruments are mentioned by the Psalmist(s), in conjunction with worship?
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Musical instruments in the church? yes, or no.
- Thread starter LaSpino3
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The Psalms were written relatively recently?
How many instruments are mentioned by the Psalmist(s), in conjunction with worship?
Rev Randy
Sometimes I pretend to be normal
The Psalms were written relatively recently?
So you think they had a temple band? I think David had a palace band and was even a part of it. I would have no objection to instruments being used if the Church agreed it was proper. And I don't have an issue with them not using such either. I play as many stringed instruments as I can get my hands on. Just not during the gathering of the saints. Not because I think it's against God but because it's the way we do it. As I'm not there to be entertained, it doesn't matter what I like.
I sing praises to God at home using such. I also play and sing to entertain my self at home. Do I think using such in cooperative worship is a disservice to God? Nope.Do I see a need to introduce them into the EOC? Nope. I've come to enjoy it as we do it but that doesn't matter anyway. Now I would have issue with a non-musical Church.
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Thank you for what seems to be a very balanced view. I certainly don't see any reason for getting my knickers in a knot over whether or not a church does or does not sing without instrumental accompaniment.
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I knew someone who firmly believed that no music should be played in churches. Whatever God did not say is something we shouldn't be doing. He claimed that his church (church of Christ) believes that where God is silent, they are silent; however, they believe that God's silence means condemnation, not Christian Freedom. His church had certain rules for accepting certain things like pews, hymnals, etc. very legalistic church.
No one can answer this question for the original poster because it depends on his/her point of view about what the Bible does not address.
No one can answer this question for the original poster because it depends on his/her point of view about what the Bible does not address.
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The harp is mentioned a few times in RevelationThe Psalms were written relatively recently?
The Biblical Musical Instruments
According to the Hebrew Scriptures, "[Jabal's] brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre (kinnor) and the pipe (`ugav)" (Genesis 4:21, RSV). Some recent commentators, with some support from such sources as Josephus and Philo (1st century A.D.), suggest that Jubal was not the inventor of the instruments themselves, but rather the teacher of whose who "played" (i.e., "handled" in a bad sense) these instruments. In other words, Jubal was the first before the Flood to misuse musical instruments, using their power to move men's minds toward ends that were displeasing to the Lord. (Truly, there is nothing new under the sun!)
By patriarchal times, Mesopotamia and especially Egypt had a rich and diverse instrumentarium. From the various stringed instruments available to them, the Hebrews apparently adopted just two for their own purposes: the kinnor (a species of lyre) and the nevel (identity uncertain).
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Rev Randy
Sometimes I pretend to be normal
The harp is mentioned a few times in Revelation
The Biblical Musical Instruments
According to the Hebrew Scriptures, "[Jabal's] brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre (kinnor) and the pipe (`ugav)" (Genesis 4:21, RSV). Some recent commentators, with some support from such sources as Josephus and Philo (1st century A.D.), suggest that Jubal was not the inventor of the instruments themselves, but rather the teacher of whose who "played" (i.e., "handled" in a bad sense) these instruments. In other words, Jubal was the first before the Flood to misuse musical instruments, using their power to move men's minds toward ends that were displeasing to the Lord. (Truly, there is nothing new under the sun!)
By patriarchal times, Mesopotamia and especially Egypt had a rich and diverse instrumentarium. From the various stringed instruments available to them, the Hebrews apparently adopted just two for their own purposes: the kinnor (a species of lyre) and the nevel (identity uncertain).
Interesting post as to worship in heaven.
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Kristos
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The Psalms were written relatively recently?
Zero?
Every Sunday I chant the Praises - Praise him with the psaltry and harp... praise him with stringed instruments and organ, etc etc - let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Do you really think that someone would get out each of those instruments listed and play it while chanting the Psalm?
I'm not saying I'm against instruments, but using these Psalms as a reason to have them does not make sense and in my opinion would be a distraction to the chanting/singing of psalms itself.
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I think it's pretty clearly established that David played at least the harp, if not other instruments as well. Since he wrote most of the Psalms, which were used as the song book used in worship, I think adding 2 + 2 is a simple matter ...
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Rev Randy
Sometimes I pretend to be normal
David was a king and there wasn't a temple yet. I would agree that David used his Psalms to worship God on his own and in his palace. But was that repeated in the Tabernacle? Not that it even matters what was done then.
I'd say worship as your Church worships when worshiping with the people. Do it in agreement and in the beauty of love. Make worship about our Lord and not about us or our desires and we will do well. If it contains an Organ, piano or guitar, fine. If it is voices alone fine. Just do it in agreement that it's all for the Lord and His glory.
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The heart of the matter!
Psalm 96:9 O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
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Originally Posted by Rev RandyDo it in agreement and in the beauty of love.
Make worship about our Lord and not about us or our desires and we will do well.
Just do it in agreement that it's all for the Lord and His glory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE1A9rxRejI
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ZaidaBoBaida
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In the Quaker tradition we don't have any music during our meetings for worship. I don't think we have any strong theology against it. We just don't do it, and honestly, music is one of the things I miss most about going to a traditiona church. However, when I consider the number of people I know who base what church they go to on whether or not they like the music and not on whether or not the doctrine is sound - I think it's better to not have it.
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So, what do we have?
On the Normative Principle side, the argument for the use of instrumental accompaniment to singing in worship wins, hands down, although it is easily conceded that both forms of singing are fully acceptable forms of worship.
On the Regulative Principle side, there is significant scripture supporting the use of instrumental accompaniment to singing (e.g. the Psalms and Revelation). In order to make the Regulative Principle accomplish the prohibition of instrumental accompaniment, these scriptures must be dismissed. This has been accomplished by the following explanations:
1. Dispensationalists will claim that the Psalms are OT and, therefore, irrelevant to NT worship (despite several references in the NT to singing Psalms).
2. Dispensationalists maintain that the worship in Revelation is yet future and has no bearing whatsoever on the worship of the Church.
3. It is argued that the Psalms which mention various musical instruments were never used in the liturgical worship of the Jewish people.
4. It is argued that the worship in heaven is distinct and different from the worship in the Church.
5. One of the more peculiar arguments I have personally encountered is based on Revelation 8:1 in which it is posited that the silence in heaven then was directly related to the exact time of the death of Jesus Christ. The argument goes that all of heaven ceased its worship when Christ died and, therefore, when the Church meets to remember the death of Christ in the Eucharist, it is profoundly out of character to use instrumental accompaniment to singing. The obvious flaw to this argument is that if the church is to follow that model, then there must be complete and utter silence - no singing, no speaking, nothing.
It appears to me that as Rev Randy has astutely observed, whatever form our singing takes, it must be true worship with Jesus Christ as its very heart.
On the Normative Principle side, the argument for the use of instrumental accompaniment to singing in worship wins, hands down, although it is easily conceded that both forms of singing are fully acceptable forms of worship.
On the Regulative Principle side, there is significant scripture supporting the use of instrumental accompaniment to singing (e.g. the Psalms and Revelation). In order to make the Regulative Principle accomplish the prohibition of instrumental accompaniment, these scriptures must be dismissed. This has been accomplished by the following explanations:
1. Dispensationalists will claim that the Psalms are OT and, therefore, irrelevant to NT worship (despite several references in the NT to singing Psalms).
2. Dispensationalists maintain that the worship in Revelation is yet future and has no bearing whatsoever on the worship of the Church.
3. It is argued that the Psalms which mention various musical instruments were never used in the liturgical worship of the Jewish people.
4. It is argued that the worship in heaven is distinct and different from the worship in the Church.
5. One of the more peculiar arguments I have personally encountered is based on Revelation 8:1 in which it is posited that the silence in heaven then was directly related to the exact time of the death of Jesus Christ. The argument goes that all of heaven ceased its worship when Christ died and, therefore, when the Church meets to remember the death of Christ in the Eucharist, it is profoundly out of character to use instrumental accompaniment to singing. The obvious flaw to this argument is that if the church is to follow that model, then there must be complete and utter silence - no singing, no speaking, nothing.
It appears to me that as Rev Randy has astutely observed, whatever form our singing takes, it must be true worship with Jesus Christ as its very heart.
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